QFF Bumped off Business.

[jveevers]

Perhaps they signed up for a Jetstar mastercard and got 30,000 points instantly. Or maybe from years of supermarket shopping? Who cares how they got the points. If qantas were making a loss on award tickets, they wouldn't offer them, but the profits from a fare-paying pax will always be greater than a pax who has just paid fees/taxes. Some QFF members accrue hundreds of thousands of points and never use them, and some that use them as soon as they have enough for a J award. But Qantas would be far more interested in keeping loyalty in a passenger that has the funds to continually pay for a J or F ticket, as opposed to a pax that always flies Y and redeems points for J when they can.

I feel sorry for the OP because i've been in his shoes when a flight was oversold, it's a very disappointing feeling, but it's not like the OP got a bad deal out of this, he got the option to wait for the next J flight, and in the mean time, he got lounge access (and seemed to have gotten as much piss out of the QP as possible), he got offered champagne in economy, a $200 Duty Free voucher (which I think he said was redeemed for CASH!), and he got 50,000 points back.

Not exactly the worst of scenarios.

No I got the $200- as duty free goods that I selected.

And compensation cash of $982-

50000 points back.

 

[Austman]

No I got the $200- as duty free goods that I selected.

And compensation cash of $982-

50000 points back.

Seems pretty reasonable. But not J class travel. Were you happy with it? That was for 2 pax?

 

[medhead]

Perhaps they signed up for a Jetstar mastercard and got 30,000 points instantly. Or maybe from years of supermarket shopping? Who cares how they got the points. If qantas were making a loss on award tickets, they wouldn't offer them, but the profits from a fare-paying pax will always be greater than a pax who has just paid fees/taxes. Some QFF members accrue hundreds of thousands of points and never use them, and some that use them as soon as they have enough for a J award. But Qantas would be far more interested in keeping loyalty in a passenger that has the funds to continually pay for a J or F ticket, as opposed to a pax that always flies Y and redeems points for J when they can.

I feel sorry for the OP because i've been in his shoes when a flight was oversold, it's a very disappointing feeling, but it's not like the OP got a bad deal out of this, he got the option to wait for the next J flight, and in the mean time, he got lounge access (and seemed to have gotten as much piss out of the QP as possible), he got offered champagne in economy, a $200 Duty Free voucher (which I think he said was redeemed for CASH!), and he got 50,000 points back.

Not exactly the worst of scenarios.

You are making a large number of assumptions. No one really knows exactly how it works. But we do know that qantas makes money from every single point issued to shoppers. We also know that QFF makes vastly more money than the airline. So I just cannot agree with your opinion that fare paying passenger are more valuable to qantas than points paying passengers. Maybe to the airline part of qantas but not to qantas. Also, again the award passenger is paying both points and fees and taxes. Those points do result in a payment in cash to the airline part of qantas.

 

[fbrimfield]

"Attitude", what are you talking about?
I was pissed off because of what was happening, which I think most people would be.
Clown

No seat is ever guaranteed, especially on a reward flight.

The best outlook to have when these things happen is to remain positive, and then sort out compensation later. Far too many people embarrass themselves by getting angry at check in desks.

 

[fbrimfield]

You are making a large number of assumptions. No one really knows exactly how it works. But we do know that qantas makes money from every single point issued to shoppers. We also know that QFF makes vastly more money than the airline. So I just cannot agree with your opinion that fare paying passenger are more valuable to qantas than points paying passengers. Maybe to the airline part of qantas but not to qantas. Also, again the award passenger is paying both points and fees and taxes. Those points do result in a payment in cash to the airline part of qantas.

Just because the QFF side of things is more profitable on the balance sheet than the Airline business is an extremely narrow view to have on it's value to the business as a whole. They're a separate business (since 2008 or whatever) with different liabilities and overheads. Qantas is still in the business of selling plane tickets, and without being able to sell tickets on a regular basis, there would be no frequent flyer business. QFF will always remain ancillary.

 

[JohnK]

"Attitude", what are you talking about?
I was pissed off because of what was happening, which I think most people would be.
Clown

Apologies if I got the wrong impression from your posts.

Probably best flight I have had. Reminder, drink lots before flights and it goes very quickly.

We did get the difference in points refunded (cost 100000, got 50000 back).
And we did get a nice cash "compensation" which was handed over in cash at the gate.
Was enough to cover our spending money on the 12 day holiday to Singapore and Thailand.
So next time, might book Business and hope for bumping again.

It would appear that you looked at the positive side of something bad happening and you are actually hoping it happens again.

 

[amaroo]

Given some of us get upset about AC changes that muck up our precious pre-assigned whY seat - I think the OP has a legitimate gripe.

I also have the view that the OP has received appropriate compensation - happy days.

 

[medhead]

Just because the QFF side of things is more profitable on the balance sheet than the Airline business is an extremely narrow view to have on it's value to the business as a whole. They're a separate business (since 2008 or whatever) with different liabilities and overheads. Qantas is still in the business of selling plane tickets, and without being able to sell tickets on a regular basis, there would be no frequent flyer business. QFF will always remain ancillary.

And you say I have an extremely narrow view. It is naive to think that QFF is ancillary considering the recurring talk of selling it off as a separate entity. The fact is Qantas run a number of businesses, that involve much more than just selling seats on aircraft, and the most profitable is QFF.

 

[JohnK]

Given some of us get upset about AC changes that muck up our precious pre-assigned whY seat - I think the OP has a legitimate gripe.

Are you having a shot at me? Did I at any point say that the OP did not have a legitimate gripe?

The posts portray someone who is now happy with the situation and hopes it will happen again. Or is this one of those threads where people say something and mean something else?

And I did let the Clown remark go!

 

[amaroo]

Are you having a shot at me? Did I at any point say that the OP did not have a legitimate gripe?

The posts portray someone who is now happy with the situation and hopes it will happen again. Or is this one of those threads where people say something and mean something else?

And I did let the Clown remark go!

JohnK, I'm as precious about my seat allocation as any other person - so no, I'm not.

The OP purchased J got bumped to Y on a Int sector - I'm sure most of us would feel aggrieved with that. I also posted that I feel he/she has received appropriate compensation.

In regards to the OP. I'm a relatively new member & in the early days posted some inappropriate words in expressing my frustrations - learnt a little since then & I'm willing to cut the OP some slack.

The clown comment was totally unacceptable & the OP needs to rectify this.

 

[leemin]

I'm with JohnK - very confused!

Was the OP's posts all sarcasm?? :/




Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app

 

[steph_vz]

Just a general question on the topic of being bumped - is being bumped from J to Y a regular occurrence? I know that I shouldn't be worried, but I have paid fare for my +1 in J and have a J classic seat award for myself next year to Tokyo (for 10 year wedding anniversary) and would hate for this to occur! Until this post, I had never heard of this happening - only for someone to get bumped to the next flight (I haven't travelled enough in J to experience this).

 

[fbrimfield]

Just a general question on the topic of being bumped - is being bumped from J to Y a regular occurrence? I know that I shouldn't be worried, but I have paid fare for my +1 in J and have a J classic seat award for myself next year to Tokyo (for 10 year wedding anniversary) and would hate for this to occur! Until this post, I had never heard of this happening - only for someone to get bumped to the next flight (I haven't travelled enough in J to experience this).

Not common, so no need to worry . Besides, they're very unlikely to split up a travelling couple.

But can happen on every class, not just business. If they're oversold in economy, they will bump up status holders to Y+ or J sometimes, but at the same time they could just tell you that the whole flight is overbooked and you might need to wait for the next one. Doesn't happen so much in Australia, but I see it happen on domestic flights in China, and in the US too.

 

[whatmeworry]

Most importantly, did the OP receive J SC and points?

 

[JohnPhelan]

Until this post, I had never heard of this happening - only for someone to get bumped to the next flight (I haven't travelled enough in J to experience this).

The OP did say that he was offered a J seat on a flight six hours later; obviously he chose to go with the Y (and compensation) option, rather than wait for six hours.

Certainly not the option I would have chosen in that situation!

 

[Sprucegoose]

BA tried to knock my MIL down to J in Jan BKK-SYD - they rang for her while we were still lounging by the pool some 5 hours before TO. As I booked the ticket the number they called was mine - I stood my ground & had a good dose of the *hit's about it.

Got to the airport ready for a stink however, they gave all in our party F BP's. The check-in agent made out she didn't know anything about one of us being bumped however, once I board the CSD confirmed that another passenger had drawn the short straw.

SQ tried to downgrade me once. Only happened once.

Needless to say I wanted the seat, I had been in the gungle for three weeks and a full fare refund wouldn't have worked at that point. The lass behind the counter got my drift quickly and they picked on someone else!

 

[Sprucegoose]

"Attitude", what are you talking about?
I was pissed off because of what was happening, which I think most people would be.

I am pleased your took out the clown reference. JohnK is a respected member and one of the most experienced travelers here.

 

[amaroo]

The OP did say that he was offered a J seat on a flight six hours later; obviously he chose to go with the Y (and compensation) option, rather than wait for six hours.

Certainly not the option I would have chosen in that situation!

If the flight was ex-SYD or MEL rather than PER I would have waited the 6 hours:mrgreen:

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Overbooking is an extremely common practice for all airlines. Airlines just don't expect everyone to show up for a flight, so they overbook. It makes more economic sense to deal with an overbooked aircraft than have an aircraft with X amount of spare seats (because of no shows).

In days gone by, maybe. Overbooking is a legacy from the 60s/70s/80s and 90s when tickets were expensive and usually fully refundable, and business people would make multiple bookings on multiple flights to guarantee flexibility.

In these days of highly accurate flight loading statistics, and non-refundable fares, there is perhaps little argument for overbooking except in cases of irrops. It is a clear breach of contract and really needs to be overhauled. Seeking volunteers as they do in the states, or having a hefty compensation scheme (like the EU) to deter such behaviour is appropriate.

Sorry, but points bookings are not non-revenue. QF makes a lot of money from points and there are cross payments associated with such bookings.

Correct. You are buying into a contract for air travel. You need agreement and consideration. FF points are consideration. Once that is paid, the contracts are on equal footing.

Okay, but I still think Qantas make more money off a full fare than a award booking, right?

Who they make more money off is irrelevant. It is not their seat to sell anymore, it 'belongs' to the passenger. Rather than confirming the new passenger, they could have put them on standby.

No seat is ever guaranteed, especially on a reward flight.

No seat is 'guaranteed' but what does that mean? It means in exceptional circumstances your seat may not be available, through circumstances beyond the airline's control. It is not a licence for the airline to print money by bumping cheap seats and selling them at full fare to last minute passengers willing to pay top dollar. If the aircraft needs maintenance, or a storm has cancelled earlier flights, then operational reasons may mean there are less seats than pax. It is not a get-out-of-gaol-free card by any means. Despite what the terms and conditions may imply.

however - in the OP's case, it seems the remedy for the breach of contract was adequate.

 

[jono88888]

So I just cannot agree with your opinion that fare paying passenger are more valuable to qantas than points paying passengers.

There's obviously a real value associated with FF points, so whether paying cash of points, both have some sort of monetary value. But maybe the difference to Qantas is that with cash I'm free to take my business elsewhere whereas with points no matter how much they piss me off I'm obliged to use the points with QF (or QFF partner).

So when in a position that unfortunately they have to choose to upset one of two customers, they might go for the one they know is a captive customer. If this is the case then it's also shortsighted as the FF is also a long term customer (but so is the cash paying one in all likelihood). So I have no idea how their logic works