Reduced AMEX earn rates from April 2019

[Valdek]

Ive had a change in employment situation which means getting CCs would be harder
had edge/exp,
edge I dont use much now due to woolworths gift card situation,
am thinking of bulk buying wish gift now, cancelling the card, and getting the annual fee back which was charged 1st feb

Does it mean you can get the annual fee back after it was charged while the card was still active?
I intend to cancel my all three Amex accounts before the D-Day in April and was wondering if the annual fees can be saved even partially (pro rata).
Just a thought: should we all whose points are to be stolen by Amex in April decide to make a strong statement and cancel our accounts there is no doubt it would have a significant negative impact on their revenue and it might force someone to rethink their current "brilliant strategy".

 

[SOPOOR]

Does it mean you can get the annual fee back after it was charged while the card was still active?
I intend to cancel my all three Amex accounts before the D-Day in April and was wondering if the annual fees can be saved even partially (pro rata).
Just a thought: should we all whose points are to be stolen by Amex in April decide to make a strong statement and cancel our accounts there is no doubt it would have a significant negative impact on their revenue and it might force someone to rethink their current "brilliant strategy".

I didnt think it was possible but a few people have quoted its policy that if its within a month you can get it back quite easily

 

[Valdek]

I didnt think it was possible but a few people have quoted its policy that if its within a month you can get it back quite easily

Thank you, Sopoor. I think it is worth checking up since such exercise might be worth close to $1K. Two of my cards are to be renewed soon.

 

[Kolo]

question for those who got offered double points.

if you have both an Explorer card and "Getaway MR" and Plat charge with "Ascent premium MR"

since they are two different MR programmes, will they double both or merge the two after April?

No. You would have needed to merge your two programs for this to happen. This has been possible but can take some time to achieve - there are threads about this. I doubt you would be able to do this in the current climate.

 

[maccaisking]

No. You would have needed to merge your two programs for this to happen. This has been possible but can take some time to achieve - there are threads about this. I doubt you would be able to do this in the current climate.

I was able to do this a couple of days ago, luckily on 1st attempt. I assume the full balance will double as the points are now all considered Ascent Premium. (our letter confirmed doubling).

 

[Bell21]

That's my (hopeful) assumption too although I manually transfer points rather than join accounts

 

[dtmiles]

The only thing I can suggest is to try to somehow get invited to become a Centurion member.

The points 'revamp' will lessen the benefits for every American Express card....except Centurion.

Not only will the cap for bonus points be removed, all transactions (excluding government/tax payments) will be 2.5 points per dollar. Government will go from 0.5 points to 1 point - and yes, I acknowledge that is effectively no change because the value is being halved.

While restaurants and travel/overseas spend drop - from 3 to effectively 1.25 and 2 to effectively 1.25 - the cap is removed, so depending on how much you spend - you will likely find yourself better off.

Also - on the day of transition to the new system, any existing points held by Centurion cardholders will be doubled so they are not devalued. I am not aware of this extending to any other card...(it's certainly not mentioned in my letters on my Platinum Business Card nor Platinum Credit Card).

 

[andye]

The only thing I can suggest is to try to somehow get invited to become a Centurion member.

The points 'revamp' will lessen the benefits for every American Express card....except Centurion.

Not only will the cap for bonus points be removed, all transactions (excluding government/tax payments) will be 2.5 points per dollar. Government will go from 0.5 points to 1 point - and yes, I acknowledge that is effectively no change because the value is being halved.

While restaurants and travel/overseas spend drop - from 3 to effectively 1.25 and 2 to effectively 1.25 - the cap is removed, so depending on how much you spend - you will likely find yourself better off.

Also - on the day of transition to the new system, any existing points held by Centurion cardholders will be doubled so they are not devalued. I am not aware of this extending to any other card...(it's certainly not mentioned in my letters on my Platinum Business Card nor Platinum Credit Card).

A large number of Platinum Charge holders including myself have been offered doubling.

You are right that post-April there will be a level of spending that mathematically favours Centurion over other cards (including Plat Charge) on points alone. My calculation is that it is 800 x (Centurion fee-Charge fee)÷(how many cents you think an MR point is worth)

Edited with extra thought

 

[dtmiles]

A large number of Platinum Charge holders including myself have been offered doubling.

You are right that post-April there will be a level of spending that mathematically favours Centurion over other cards (including Plat Charge) on points alone. My calculation is that it is 800 x Centurion fee÷(how many cents you think an MR point is worth)

And if you use the other services by Centurion - then there is substantial benefits...we use our relationship manager extensively to the point where we no longer employ a PA...

 

[WeeWillyWonka]

All I keep thinking about when I see these points offer letters to some members and not others, is Dr Ralph’s sentiments: do not be loyal to Amex.

 

[daft009]

And if you use the other services by Centurion - then there is substantial benefits...we use our relationship manager extensively to the point where we no longer employ a PA...

could you please list some tasks you use him/her for?

 

[potm]

The only thing I can suggest is to try to somehow get invited to become a Centurion member.

The points 'revamp' will lessen the benefits for every American Express card....except Centurion.

Not only will the cap for bonus points be removed, all transactions (excluding government/tax payments) will be 2.5 points per dollar. Government will go from 0.5 points to 1 point - and yes, I acknowledge that is effectively no change because the value is being halved.

While restaurants and travel/overseas spend drop - from 3 to effectively 1.25 and 2 to effectively 1.25 - the cap is removed, so depending on how much you spend - you will likely find yourself better off.

Also - on the day of transition to the new system, any existing points held by Centurion cardholders will be doubled so they are not devalued. I am not aware of this extending to any other card...(it's certainly not mentioned in my letters on my Platinum Business Card nor Platinum Credit Card).

It is still a significant devaluation because any centurion member putting through enough points to hit caps should have had an explorer that gave 2 points for all transactions uncapped.

Centurion will be best off at 1.25 points after the deval but it is still a significant hit. It does raise the benefit of actually holding a centurion though, instead of having a coughper earn rate than a card that costs less than 1/10 the annual fee.

 

[Valdek]

All I keep thinking about when I see these points offer letters to some members and not others, is Dr Ralph’s sentiments: do not be loyal to Amex.

You are right about this. What Amex is doing right now is absolutely disgusting. Any loyalty to them becomes children's naivety. They have become unreliable and untrustworthy. I wonder what they will come up with next?

 

[albyd]

All things considered, I think Amex have done a reasonable job with this:

• Lots of notice (some like Citi initially) have very little notice;
• Offered to keep some members (paying highest annual fee) whole on ‘legacy’ points with the doubling offer;
• Offering a number of bonus offers to make moving points more palatable like the current Velocity offer which is out of cycle;

I feel for members who don’t hold an expensive card and had been accumulating for a long time only now to have to decide whether to stay and lose 50% or move points prematurely.

I think a key aim of points collecting is to ensure you use them as regularly as possible to avoid exposure to this sort of event. Outside of amex’s Actions, airlines have been devaluing regularly. The best value is always for the points you’ve already used.

 

[SOPOOR]

All things considered, I think Amex have done a reasonable job with this:

• Lots of notice (some like Citi initially) have very little notice;
• Offered to keep some members (paying highest annual fee) whole on ‘legacy’ points with the doubling offer;
• Offering a number of bonus offers to make moving points more palatable like the current Velocity offer which is out of cycle;

I feel for members who don’t hold an expensive card and had been accumulating for a long time only now to have to decide whether to stay and lose 50% or move points prematurely.

I think a key aim of points collecting is to ensure you use them as regularly as possible to avoid exposure to this sort of event. Outside of amex’s Actions, airlines have been devaluing regularly. The best value is always for the points you’ve already used.

well said,

however, if they have heaps of members leaving, theyd be very naive to say "oops, we didnt expect that" or "why did they leave, the changes were all positive"

 

[albyd]

I think the loss of members to Amex won’t be significant. Engaged members like us on AFF know what suits our needs and I think at least for me, Amex still has a significant advantage over bank issued cards. They’ve done enough to improve the economics but still keep it attractive for us to stay if it suits our spending patterns.

As much as this sucks, we need Amex to stay relevant and widely accepted. High points earning card that no one accepts isn’t much use to anyone.

 

[SOPOOR]

I think the loss of members to Amex won’t be significant. Engaged members like us on AFF know what suits our needs and I think at least for me, Amex still has a significant advantage over bank issued cards. They’ve done enough to improve the economics but still keep it attractive for us to stay if it suits our spending patterns.

As much as this sucks, we need Amex to stay relevant and widely accepted. High points earning card that no one accepts isn’t much use to anyone.

what I have learnt over hte years is that , amex and their entire team arent stupid, they will expect their membership to drop off, as to how much, and how much they predict, who knows,

but its all about profits and keeping sharholders happy, so if they can reduce the value of the programs and still be profitable and competitive, they will do so

and there will always be enraged customers for any change, but after a little while, people forget and will flock to any good deal,

I have had a bad experience with westpac customer service, and their inability to identify me over the phone ,and it was a nightmare, having to go into a branch twice, but if a good credit card deal came along, I will sign up!

 

[potm]

If they had kept all members whole and only changed the rates going forward then I think we can’t fault them at all.

There’s a risk with all points program devalautions which is why Amex members have valued the ability to warehouse points there. Amex have built up a good repuation over a long period of time.

Providing plenty of notice is nice but my view of Amex has gone down a notch because of the devaluation of existing balances. The hard earned trust has been eroded.

I’m not rushing to cancel my cards though. They are still competative. The change in rates is not surprising given the caps and what has happened in the credit card market.

 

[Valdek]

All things considered, I think Amex have done a reasonable job with this:

• Lots of notice (some like Citi initially) have very little notice;
• Offered to keep some members (paying highest annual fee) whole on ‘legacy’ points with the doubling offer;
• Offering a number of bonus offers to make moving points more palatable like the current Velocity offer which is out of cycle;

I feel for members who don’t hold an expensive card and had been accumulating for a long time only now to have to decide whether to stay and lose 50% or move points prematurely.

I think a key aim of points collecting is to ensure you use them as regularly as possible to avoid exposure to this sort of event. Outside of amex’s Actions, airlines have been devaluing regularly. The best value is always for the points you’ve already used.

I am sorry, but I see it quite differently:

"Lots of notice (some like Citi initially) have very little notice" - wrong - do not forget that many members have a significant amount of reward points that have been gathered over the years to be used after their retirement. A few months notice is simply not enough to apply any rescue plan. Converting to Velocity even with existing bonus is still a loss as Velocity points are constantly diminishing in value when converting to serious players like KrisFlyer.
"Offered to keep some members (paying highest annual fee) whole on ‘legacy’ points with the doubling offer" - wrong - this is the worst they could do for their public image: dividing their members to "better" and "worse" while such division makes no sense either. Being in the position of decision making wouldn't you choose the biggest spenders in favour of the highest annual card fee payers that sometimes spend many times less?
"Offering a number of bonus offers to make moving points more palatable like the current Velocity offer which is out of cycle" - wrong - I believe this is the Virgin Australia offer, and Amex has nothing to do with it.

 

[SOPOOR]

If they had kept all members whole and only changed the rates going forward then I think we can’t fault them at all.

There’s a risk with all points program devalautions which is why Amex members have valued the ability to warehouse points there. Amex have built up a good repuation over a long period of time.

Providing plenty of notice is nice but my view of Amex has gone down a notch because of the devaluation of existing balances. The hard earned trust has been eroded.

I’m not rushing to cancel my cards though. They are still competative. The change in rates is not surprising given the caps and what has happened in the credit card market.

my argument is that , amex will have formulas for the average number of points, spent, expired, redeemed, lost, spent on toasters, spent on flights etc. etc. so as per typical corporate BS, they lie and cry poor saying that for those that have stockpiled points is a big loss of them, is complete BS