Reduced AMEX earn rates from April 2019

[Valdek]

If they had kept all members whole and only changed the rates going forward then I think we can’t fault them at all.

There’s a risk with all points program devalautions which is why Amex members have valued the ability to warehouse points there. Amex have built up a good repuation over a long period of time.

Providing plenty of notice is nice but my view of Amex has gone down a notch because of the devaluation of existing balances. The hard earned trust has been eroded.

I’m not rushing to cancel my cards though. They are still competative. The change in rates is not surprising given the caps and what has happened in the credit card market.

This is exactly the point. I believe most of us understand market changes and the necessity to adjust to the current situation. But it does not justify what Amex is doing now: halving the existing long-term savings. It is a steal.

 

[jbman]

Either way I have seen no increase in smaller retailers come on board.
I would be interested to see in a years time if the ratio of acceptance increased. I have my doubts I will be able to use AMEX in more places in the future

 

[daft009]

i have definitely noticed a slight increase in acceptance

 

[lilkid28]

Don't forget whilst that even if there is increased acceptance, more and more businesses, new ones who come on board and previously accepting Amex, have started to charge for Amex, and even Visa/Mastercard.

 

[SOPOOR]

Don't forget whilst that even if there is increased acceptance, more and more businesses, new ones who come on board and previously accepting Amex, have started to charge for Amex, and even Visa/Mastercard.

agree, the notion of amex being a premium merchant still resonates in the market place (who's fault/cause I dont know)

the fees have come down, but shops/large and small seem to be charging a lot higher for amex still overall

 

[lilkid28]

agree, the notion of amex being a premium merchant still resonates in the market place (who's fault/cause I dont know)

the fees have come down, but shops/large and small seem to be charging a lot higher for amex still overall

Yes I should elaborate that mostly due to the changes in law, merchants can charge the cost of processing this payments by credit cards, and they are more than happy to pass on this cost to consumers. Over the past 12-18 months, I have seen more and more business display a sign showing this, with Visa/MC even attracting 1-1.5% surcharge, Amex often 1.5-2.0% surcharge. With these points capping, reduction in earn rates, points devaluation, which card is barely worth it to pay these surcharges to earn the points?

 

[SOPOOR]

Yes I should elaborate that mostly due to the changes in law, merchants can charge the cost of processing this payments by credit cards, and they are more than happy to pass on this cost to consumers. Over the past 12-18 months, I have seen more and more business display a sign showing this, with Visa/MC even attracting 1-1.5% surcharge, Amex often 1.5-2.0% surcharge. With these points capping, reduction in earn rates, points devaluation, which card is barely worth it to pay these surcharges to earn the points?

as much as I hate these new deval changes, the fact is that amex still for the most part will be say 0-25% better in terms of rewards than visa/MC

so paying the surhcarge for some people might be worth it, not for me though

also as you mention merchants are allowed to pass on the charges at cost, however I still see some multi nationals and decent sized businesses charging 1.5% for visa,
when I had my micro business, I was on 0.7%+GST for visa, so I would assume the multinationals would be getting a far better deal

ps. what would the average amex merchant fee be now? if I recall it used to be 2%-3%,

 

[albyd]

JB hifi charges 2.45% for Amex. I find it hard to imagine they can’t get a better deal
If they asked nicely.theyd be a significant merchant by volume.

 

[JohnK]

All things considered, I think Amex have done a reasonable job with this:

You have some good points but Amex have done an awful job.

I've been accumulating points for a few years and they are effectively halving my current points balance and halving my future points earn. Yes I know I can transfer before April but I'm not ready to transfer so in essence they are forcing me to transfer.

Why favour holders of some cards over others? Because of the flavour of the card? So they don't see my business as important to them and I will repay them the favour.

 

[Chicken]

Why favour holders of some cards over others? Because of the flavour of the card?

Yep. They know that Platinum charge and Reserve card holders are generally more profitable, so they don't get affected as badly.

AmEx is here to make a profit, not to make friends.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

.



Why favour holders of some cards over others? Because of the flavour of the card? So they don't see my business as important to them and I will repay them the favour.

I think many businesses are going to favour certain customers for various reasons. I certainly do.

The business that does not is probably not a good business, unless its particular product/ service and method of selling does not readily allow for segmentation.

 

[JohnK]

Yep. They know that Platinum charge and Reserve card holders are generally more profitable, so they don't get affected as badly.

AmEx is here to make a profit, not to make friends.

I suspect they make a much tidier profit out of me than they make from most card holders but that's not been taken into consideration here only the flavour of the card.

For some reason Amex have favoured churners over existing card holders for a long time and have now opened my eyes with the post-April devaluation.

By the way it is entirely possible to make friends and make a profit at the same time but Amex haven't seen that as an option.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

For some reason Amex have favoured churners over existing card holders for a long time .

Out of interest do you actually know what % churn Amex?

While this forum is full of churners my guess is that the bulk of cardholders are vastly different than the microcosm that this form represents and actually would tend to keep their cards and not churn.


The vast majority of people that I run across do not churn, and if they collect reward points they do so in a pretty haphazard and uneducated manner. Churning is regarded as simply way too much hard work by many, if not most, people. And those thatt do not consider it too much work just regard me as downright crazy. Though they also say that I am "lucky" to be able to fly so much.


My overall experience in gaining vast amounts of rewards points is that I do so by not doing what the masses do, or don't do. My view is that churning for points is enabled by the masses not churning cards.

 

[Matt_01]

Out of interest do you actually know what % churn Amex?

Didn't AMEX put in some type of exclusion period a while back and some rules for existing card holders. I do not churn AMEX however after April I will be getting rid of my explorer and just keeping the Plat Charge. For a very brief moment consider cancelling my AMEX cards, wait the 18 months then wait in hope there maybe be some 80k-100k sign up bonus. I also realised that in holding and using the cards for that 18 month period I would actually earn around 300k in points so it was not worth cancelling them.

My ability to send AMEX points to SQ or many other programs is the main driver for me and I use AMEX as a points warehouse sending to programs as required rather than just being locked to QF or VA, I earn more than enough points through flying to have a healthy QF points balance, VA I sent to SQ in late December but they will rise again.

Like some here I did get the letter informing me that my points balance would be doubled so I am no worse off.

 

[WeeWillyWonka]

Regardless of the reasons why AMEX may be preferring some customers over others - we could debate this topic for pages - this decision is another chink in their 'Halo effect' armour. When they routed most of our calls to Philippines centres (please someone give those staff acting jobs for all trying to stay on script), it reaffirmed to me that there is less differentiation between what they offer and our banks.

 

[albyd]

Thus far, calls are answered pretty quickly whereas bank call centers usually have long hold times.

 

[potm]

Out of interest do you actually know what % churn Amex?

While this forum is full of churners my guess is that the bulk of cardholders are vastly different than the microcosm that this form represents and actually would tend to keep their cards and not churn.


The vast majority of people that I run across do not churn, and if they collect reward points they do so in a pretty haphazard and uneducated manner. Churning is regarded as simply way too much hard work by many, if not most, people. And those thatt do not consider it too much work just regard me as downright crazy. Though they also say that I am "lucky" to be able to fly so much.


My overall experience in gaining vast amounts of rewards points is that I do so by not doing what the masses do, or don't do. My view is that churning for points is enabled by the masses not churning cards.

Even for people on this forum I believe that most do not churn Amex cards as they provide much more value (at least until April) than bank cards. Despite my claims of thinking about canceling my Amex cards to try and solicit retention offers, I would be devastated without my Amex cards.

For most of the bank cards though, churn churn churn away.

 

[Valdek]

You have some good points but Amex have done an awful job.

I've been accumulating points for a few years and they are effectively halving my current points balance and halving my future points earn. Yes I know I can transfer before April but I'm not ready to transfer so in essence they are forcing me to transfer.

Why favour holders of some cards over others? Because of the flavour of the card? So they don't see my business as important to them and I will repay them the favour.

At last. Someone with a brain. This is exactly the issue of the shameful thing Amex Australia is trying to do, applying the old Roman rule: 'divide-and-rule' trap. By BRIBING some of the members with doubling their point they are splitting our group of Amex members in two. The "winners" and the "losers". Winners don't give a damn, they are happy they stay onboard - let the others sink. They do not realise in the future they will be treated the same. A new "Plutonium or Neptunium Card" with an annual fee of 50K will emerge and most of them will be swept off the board with their points stolen. And yes, you have guessed it - no one will be there to stand by. They all will be gone by then. The rage goes on freely.
There is one rule in all civilised world we all should remember: "lex retro non agit" or "the law is NOT retroactive". The rule that is now being broken by Amex right in the front of our eyes. They are STEALING half of the points of thousands of members that naively were counting on the company's reliability. The membership points that were earned at the clearly set value bringing the company huge profits are suddenly halved.
The market times have changed, and there is a need to adjust. OK, we accept the times have changed and we ALL have to be affected. But... there is one question: what has changed to decide that some members are not allowed to keep the ORIGINAL EARNED VALUE of their membership rewards - earned IN THE PAST? Over last 10, 20 or 30 years? All those transactions brought the company huge profits over those years. They were worth millions, possibly hundreds of millions, maybe more? Will Amex return half of their profits to their merchants? Do you think they will? Of course not!
So... is this greed? Easy money to grab based on the "small print"? Is this what this company was built on? Shame on you Amex! One of the worst moves you could think of. STEALING!
Anyone aware of this shonky business should cancel their cards. Show them we are not just "the numbers" they can play with. They do exist thanks to us, their loyal members, without us they are nothing.
"So they don't see my business as important to them and I will repay them the favour."
I am right behind you JohnK. And I hope some of the members have some balls too.

 

[burmans]

For some reason Amex have favoured churners over existing card holders for a long time and have now opened my eyes with the post-April devaluation.

The reason Amex favour churners over existing card holders is well documented, well known and sound business practice. The fact you acknowledge this has been going on for a long time but have only now started to think about reacting to it (though it still appears you are only talking about doing something rather than actually doing something) goes a long way to explaining why this strategy works so well for them.

 

[JohnK]

The fact you acknowledge this has been going on for a long time but have only now started to think about reacting to it (though it still appears you are only talking about doing something rather than actually doing something) goes a long way to explaining why this strategy works so well for them.

It never bothered me that much as I was happily accumulating a small amount of points. Now they are halving that earn it makes no sense to go out of the way to pay with Amex when I could just as easily pay cash and save myself the hassle of BPAY to Amex.