Reduction in Transfer Rates to Velocity/Krisflyer

[cove]

So far I have done nothing but will be with AFFers tonight for drinks and dinner. I have an Asia Miles account with zero miles in it so that is a possibility.

 

[M@rcoPolo]

I transferred about 9pm Friday, still not there but am confident they will arrive.

Transferred Friday at 9am and they landed in my KrisFlyer account this morning

 

[Eggsbenedict]

I want to thank daveozsydney for all the work he did. The members/customers here for applying pressure to Citi via phone, email and Facebook. To Pointhacks. And also to David over on AUSBT.com.au for bringing this news to a wider audience and seeking an offical response from Citi.

It seems Citibank have added a new clause now that will let them change this transfer rate again without notice. From a post by Michael over on AUSBT-



Though you would think they would learn from their mistakes and not do this again and give 90 days notice.

But just in case I'm going to do a few things

- Push more through my Amex card for local spend
- Transfer my points except for 15000 over to SQ (knowing full well of the 3 year expiry, though I intend to use my points within that period, especially considering you can book a year out so that really makes it 4 years to use them)
- The 15000 points will allow me to empty my account if I need to without leaving any behind
- Keep my Citi card for Overseas spend and in those instances where Amex is not accepted locally

Yep my citi exodus arrived today after transfer late Friday night

Same sent Friday afternoon came though yesterday (Saturday) afternoon.

 

[daveozsydney]

I'm 6'2" and found the beds in Singapore Suites and First Class to be more than adequate. The switch from Suites to F was a bit of a shock however when I switched planes in Singapore, so it's amazing how quickly you get used to things.

All first world problems of course!
My favourite trip to Europe would be Singapore's in air service, Etihad Apartment Suites and Thai F Airways ground handling (loved the pickup from gate to lounge, and the F lounge with 1 hour massage).
Disliked the AUH airport and the Etihad Lounge which was too crowded ( a bit like the Qantas Club/Business lounge). The Private Room in Singapore needs more amenities like Thai F in Bangkok. Also the service when I was there was a bit lacking. The F section of the lounge in Sydney was amazing service with very friendly and helpful staff. Didn't get the same when flying F with Thai and using the Krisflyer Lounge in Sydney as my *A option (rather than Koru lounge).
Haven't tried Lufthansa F however as it's supposed to be amazing ground transfer experience or Air France F.

 

[Spizz]

I'm 6'2" and found the beds in Singapore Suites and First Class to be more than adequate. The switch from Suites to F was a bit of a shock however when I switched planes in Singapore, so it's amazing how quickly you get used to things.

All first world problems of course!
My favourite trip to Europe would be Singapore's in air service, Etihad Apartment Suites and Thai F Airways ground handling (loved the pickup from gate to lounge, and the F lounge with 1 hour massage).
Disliked the AUH airport and the Etihad Lounge which was too crowded ( a bit like the Qantas Club/Business lounge). The Private Room in Singapore needs more amenities like Thai F in Bangkok. Also the service when I was there was a bit lacking. The F section of the lounge in Sydney was amazing service with very friendly and helpful staff. Didn't get the same when flying F with Thai and using the Krisflyer Lounge in Sydney as my *A option (rather than Koru lounge).
Haven't tried Lufthansa F however as it's supposed to be amazing ground transfer experience or Air France F.

I would also throw in the QR Al Safwa First Class Lounge into the mix where you can get your own private room with bed and shower to rest up in before your next flight. As for the Etihad Apartment I have read numerous times that the bed is uncomfortable. YMMV.

 

[daveozsydney]

I would also throw in the QR Al Safwa First Class Lounge into the mix where you can get your own private room with bed and shower to rest up in before your next flight. As for the Etihad Apartment I have read numerous times that the bed is uncomfortable. YMMV.

I didn't notice the bed being uncomfortable so much in EY apartments. But maybe I was enjoying the whole experience too much - particularly the private chef's meals suggestions.
Wasn't allowed to check out the Residence though despite it being unoccupied... Could be an aspirational award to use all those citi points. Think it is a couple of million (for two people) depending on the route chosen!
Would be great to read a trip report on that because I don't recall reading one so far.

 

[doctau]

I transferred mine over to SQ yesterday afternoon, but there was no pop up or notes about changing T&Cs as a few people have mentioned.

 

[CJEMNMAC]

I transferred mine over to SQ yesterday afternoon, but there was no pop up or notes about changing T&Cs as a few people have mentioned.

On the page where you actually transfer there are terms and conditions you have to accept. It is a tick box under your name and FF number etc..

You have to tick to proceed and by proceeding you acknowledge the conditions

 

[burmans]

On the page where you actually transfer there are terms and conditions you have to accept. It is a tick box under your name and FF number etc..

You have to tick to proceed and by proceeding you acknowledge the conditions

Haven't quite worked out what the point of this is, while yes some people will be using the redemption facility some won't and regardless of all this under 6.2 they need to provide written notice.
We will give you 30 days written notice of other changes to these Rewards Program Terms and Conditions;

So surely they are going to have to provide written notice anyway, in particular to those who haven't used the used this facility.

 

[CJEMNMAC]

Haven't quite worked out what the point of this is, while yes some people will be using the redemption facility some won't and regardless of all this under 6.2 they need to provide written notice.
We will give you 30 days written notice of other changes to these Rewards Program Terms and Conditions;

So surely they are going to have to provide written notice anyway, in particular to those who haven't used the used this facility.

Sure agree.

I think the terms and conditions as it stands is a complete toss.. It is all over the place. When you find yourself in the position they now do after the backlash, I cant believe they think that it is acceptable to keep adding additional terms to try and fix what can be resolved with simple written notice.

I suspect most people will not really know what they have or have not agreed to.

 

[hummel]

Just transferred 150k citirewards to my KF account. Left 15,000 in my account just in case need to transfer again.

 

[daveozsydney]

Under ASIC rules, all banks are required to give 20 days notice anyway so it would be a breach of their credit licence. So I wrote to them on Friday notifying them of this and suggesting they change these additional illegal terms and conditions.

It is a statutory requirement under section 68(1) of NCCPA that a credit provider refrain from exercising any contractual power to unilaterally amend its terms without providing at least 20 days’ written notice before the change takes effect, setting out the particulars of those changes.

This is a strict liability criminal offence for which there is no defence.

ASIC would be interested in the criminal abuse of Citibank’s Australian credit license!

(this formed part of our original legal letter of demand!)

 

[Isochronous]

Like daveozsydney I have also been trying to pin down Citibank on this issue. I wrote to them on Friday posing the following questions:

Please confirm the following:

1. Citibank will not attempt to make any further changes whatsoever to Citibank Rewards without first providing reasonable notice;
2. That, in the event any such changes are made, these changes will not have retrospective effect on the value or transfer rate of existing Citibank Rewards Points;
3. Citibank will cease and desist from misleading or deceptive conduct in this regard and comply with the letter and spirit of the relevant legislation as referred to in my letter of yesterday.
4. What steps will Citibank be taking to (i) restore public trust in its credit card services, Citibank Rewards; and (ii) compensate cardholders such as myself who were unacceptably inconvenienced and/or distressed by the illegal conduct of Citibank earlier this week.

The reply I received confirmed that Citibank is going to issue notice and proceed with the devaluation anyway:

When changes are made to our product offerings, we always consider our terms and conditions and act appropriately. We believe we have done this, but in response to customer feedback, as noted previously, we returned the transfer rate for the two airline programs (Singapore Airlines- Kris Flyer and Virgin Airlines - Velocity) back to the rate that applied at 31 October 2015.

We will continue to act in compliance with our legal and regulatory requirements, but please note regarding your specific concern, Citibank will be providing written notice of a future change to cardholders in a few weeks’ time.

Once you have received that notice, should you have any further questions, please feel free to connect with us again.

As an offer of good faith, we would like to offer you 10,000 rewards points to be credited in to your account. If you would like to accept this offer as resolution of your matter, please let me know by return email and in any case, by 4.00pm Sydney time, Friday 13 November 2015.

 

[psi999]

Wow totally missed this thread being away on holidays - a lot can change (and change back ) in a week or so.

The only problems now are how long before we get 90 days notice of a change to redemption rates and what to do with, in some cases, massive amounts of points? Do you transfer to KF and hope that you can use them before they expire as I see lots of redemption requests or do you warehouse in VA and lose in the transfer to KF? I also don't see any 15% bonus transfer promotions any time soon.
Decisions, decisions.

This is where i am myself. I already have a 1 million plus tucked away with Velocity and had been spreading my devaluation risk via Citibank (signature) and American Express MR with reasonable balances on both.

I have only ever transferred to Velocity during 15% bonus periods in the past but as stated above pretty much zero chance of this now... writing is well and truly on the wall for 1.5citi/1VF per $1 (signature).

So do i:

1) Transfer everything with citi out to velocity - continue using card and transferring out once i hit minimum requirement (annual fee free so currently still worth it at 1VF per $1).
2) Leave 15k citi balance and pull the rest - safest option (probably my preference, but no 15% bonus )
3) Do nothing - wait for the dust to settle.

I have absolutely zero travel plans in the next few years so krisflyer is of no use for me with point expiry's and not really interested in ay other programs (after prying myself away from QFF last year).

Decisions, decisions indeed.

 

[burmans]

Like daveozsydney I have also been trying to pin down Citibank on this issue. I wrote to them on Friday posing the following questions:

[/LIST]

The reply I received confirmed that Citibank is going to issue notice and proceed with the devaluation anyway:

You've really got to query the quality of their legal advice. Or maybe they just think they are bigger than the law being a multi-national.

 

[Spizz]

At least we will be notified in a few weeks time and then I can plan accordingly as to transferring the remained of my points before devaluation.

 

[legroom]

Just transferred sufficient SQ miles for our Dec 2016 planning - looking at Suites x2 to somewhere in EUR & return

Not totally unexpected as Citi has "form" but the legal letters from many from here were helpful to get them to pause the devaluation for a few weeks.

Leave some for AM (CX) - just in case the need arises

 

[DeKa]

Maybe they get processed outbound only on weekdays by Citi. Mine haven't arrived at SQ yet.

 

[albyd]

So do i:

1) Transfer everything with citi out to velocity - continue using card and transferring out once i hit minimum requirement (annual fee free so currently still worth it at 1VF per $1).
2) Leave 15k citi balance and pull the rest - safest option (probably my preference, but no 15% bonus )
3) Do nothing - wait for the dust to settle.

I have absolutely zero travel plans in the next few years so krisflyer is of no use for me with point expiry's and not really interested in ay other programs (after prying myself away from QFF last year).

FWIW while I think I have plenty of Velocity points & risk of devaluation from Virgin, I'll transfer my points to Velocity (lesser of 2 evils) & leave 15k for transfers until devaluation is effective.
Even after the deval, Prestige is competitive vs other current offerings which can only come down as everyone is affected by lower interchange.
Might transfer my Amex MR points now too and play it by ear. If Amex and Citi are now both 1:1 I'll use Amex first then Prestige going forward.

 

[ninja-tim]

Finally got a secure-mail reply from my secure-mail to them last wednesday. All they had to say was the generic response of them returning conversion rates to pre-Nov 1st.

I asked compensation for stress and time, in addition to and none was given. Anyone else get compensation for complaining via secure-mail?