Reduction in Transfer Rates to Velocity/Krisflyer

[Glider_]

Why expend a lot of energy over something that hasn't happened? Wait and see how they go about it first, then decide on a course of action.

Because it has already started, with their change to main T&C's back to 20 days notification of changes and their requirement on redemption for you to agree with new Rewards T&Cs stating that you waive your right to any such notification.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I am confused... I just went onto the Citibank website... terms and conditions... and 6.2 seems to be the same as it was before?

Still says 90 days if they change the way points will be earned or converted... https://citibank.com.au/global_docs/pdf/MCG12231.pdf

 

[VAG newbie]

I am confused... I just went onto the Citibank website... terms and conditions... and 6.2 seems to be the same as it was before?

Still says 90 days if they change the way points will be earned or converted... https://citibank.com.au/global_docs/pdf/MCG12231.pdf

That's where the whole dispute is. Citi has different interpretation of points "earned or converted", and they kept on saying it refers to the direct QFF earn card. So the new T&C, which subtlety sneaked in after this whole incidence, specifically relate to "point transfer". So the wording is very clear this time.

When you are about to transfer your point, there is a box that says "I agree with the terms and conditions" which you need to tick before you can transfer your points. Click on the highlighted "Terms and Condition" then you will see the added T&C which clearly stated they can change the rules at any time with or without notice. So if you tick it, you have agreed to the T&C. If they devalue again without telling us, legally you can't complain as you have agreed to it, even though the T&C was changed and you didn't read it. It is all there!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That's where the whole dispute is. Citi has different interpretation of points "earned or converted", and they kept on saying it refers to the direct QFF earn card. So the new T&C, which subtlety sneaked in after this whole incidence, specifically relate to "point transfer". So the wording is very clear this time.

When you are about to transfer your point, there is a box that says "I agree with the terms and conditions" which you need to tick before you can transfer your points. Click on the highlighted "Terms and Condition" then you will see the added T&C which clearly stated they can change the rules at any time with or without notice. So if you tick it, you have agreed to the T&C. If they devalue again without telling us, legally you can't complain as you have agreed to it, even though the T&C was changed and you didn't read it. It is all there!

My point was that the current wording of the terms and conditions is still the same? A pop up box stating a term/condition, if that term or condition is not then incorporated into the main T&C document, is not likely to be valid or binding - that is, the terms and conditions would usually be expected to stand on their own, without reference to a pop-up box.

Is there an updated terms and conditons anywhere?

 

[Isochronous]

I intend to refer this matter to ASIC. Citibank are being very cavalier here and are on dubious legal ground.

 

[burmans]

I intend to refer this matter to ASIC. Citibank are being very cavalier here and are on dubious legal ground.

I'm in favour of this but until they actually try to impose these dodgy terms unsure what you'd be complaining about, I think there is still a degree of speculation here, e.g. we don't know they aren't going to send out revised T&C's to everyone as far as I know.

 

[JinbaIttai]

I think I will be transferring the bulk of my points as soon as they revert the rates... Obviously "warehousing" the points at Citi without expiry isn't all that they promised it to be.

I cleaned out my Citi point balance when they reverted the rates (transferred ~400,000 points to KF) and today got a phone call asking me to rate my experience using Citi rewards based on my most recent redemption.

First question - "How likely are you to recommend Citibank to others based on your most recent reward redemption" - I pointed out that due the underlying reason why I transferred my points (risk of point devaluation without warning) I could not recommend Citibank to anyone, unless there was a guarantee they would not pull such a stunt in future.

Then some questions about how easy it was to use the awards website (very easy)

Last question - "How likely are you to use your Citibank Prestige card in future based on your most recent reward redemption experience" - answer "I'm more likely to use my Westpac KF card - it earns less points but at least I know what I get"

 

[burmans]

You've got to love mindless surveys!

 

[Glider_]

Has anyone received an official notification of the change - other than the new clause in the redemption popup screen?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Has anyone received an official notification of the change - other than the new clause in the redemption popup screen?

No. But I'm just thinking - this was a pretty good way to get (tens of) millions of points off your (Citi's) books and onto Kris Flyer's. And now the expiration period starts running.

Conspiracy theories anyone??

 

[albyd]

Guessing Citi has to pay SQ for the points first so if they expire that's SQ's gain (unless there's a profit sharing agreement between SQ & Citi on points that expire).

 

[daveozsydney]

No. But I'm just thinking - this was a pretty good way to get (tens of) millions of points off your (Citi's) books and onto Kris Flyer's. And now the expiration period starts running.

Conspiracy theories anyone??

I doubt it - you could transfer to any of the programmes and most like Velocity don't have expiry dates so long as you have points activity (earn or redeem) so they can keep rolling forever...
I think they underestimated how many people pay attention to the conversion rates and thought they could sneak it by. Probably some newly minted grad or MBA who buys toasters with their own frequent flyer points... It also shows that locally here (if that's where the decision was made) they don't understand their own product and the value in retaining customers and the merits of a flexible points programme (possibly it was devised by people in head office who understand how to craft a decent FF programme and then rolled out to the regions).

It's probably had the opposite effect and caused them to shell out millions to SQ and Velocity among others and crystallise the liabilities on their balance sheet which could otherwise have sat there indefinitely until redeemed.

 

[Buzzard]

Maybe I'm playing with a hand grenade but so far have not transferred any points out of Citi.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I doubt it - you could transfer to any of the programmes and most like Velocity don't have expiry dates so long as you have points activity (earn or redeem) so they can keep rolling forever...

Oh yes. Good point.

 

[RAM]

Maybe I'm playing with a hand grenade but so far have not transferred any points out of Citi.

tick, tick, tick, fizzle, tick, tick....


Do not plan to be out of touch for more than a week or two or it could be costly.

 

[daveozsydney]

Maybe I'm playing with a hand grenade but so far have not transferred any points out of Citi.

Brave person Buzzard! Also don't underestimate the value of the HHonors double points deal. Makes for some very good redemptions at the high end if you need excuses to stay in some fantastic locations for 'free'. Also combine with The Hilton Gold (if you have prestige) and get free breakfast for two.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Maybe I'm playing with a hand grenade but so far have not transferred any points out of Citi.

Me neither - I wonder what the majority have done - me tinks we need a poll.

 

[LuisT]

Me neither - I wonder what the majority have done - me tinks we need a poll.

Same here, though I am checking this page rather religiously!

 

[daveozsydney]

Me neither - I wonder what the majority have done - me tinks we need a poll.

I transferred all mine out to Krisflyer...
Then newly minted points have gone across to HHonors with the 1:2 offer to get me a week in a $1400 per night hotel for the equivalent of 36,000 citi points per night.

Newly earned ones in the next few weeks - still undecided... But we got a reprieve and didn't want to chance a suddent change as they have all been saying it will happen, so when, not if.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Isochronous]

Moved mine to KF to keep them safe.