Reduction in Transfer Rates to Velocity/Krisflyer

[PLANT]

Mmmm class action..... Media/print and social needs to get involved too.... Biggest event on AFF this year?

 

[Cruiser Elite]

As per last couple posts whilst we cannot mount a 'coordinated' response we might well be able to mount a campaign where complaints closely 'mirror' each other.

If there is a legal minded person online who might be able to draft a complaint email that all could use then we might be in a stronger position.

Be aware that before you can head off to FOS you must first as agreived party give the financial institution in question a chance to address your concerns - if no common ground can then be found you can then lodge a FOS complaint.

Probably the prudent path is as many have already begun - phone call to Citi to verbally express your disgust in strong but polite terms - to a Manager if you can get passed onto one - then follow up email clearly outlining the extent of the devaluation of your warehoused Citi points - then if no satisfaction off to FOS.

No doubt we / someone needs to bring this to the attention of the tabloid current affairs programs etc as they love whacking banks.

However it turns out I wish everybody the best on your 'road to recovery'.

 

[theblank]

Looks like to me there is no hope in hell of any action from FOS. The Citi T&c 6.2 says that they can change the reward redemptions without notice. It only says 90 days notice to change the reward earning. This is no different to changing the value of the toaster from 50,0000 points to 75,000. The FOS is just going to laugh.

Our perception that the card was earning 1 velocity for $1 spend wasn't really correct, but that is the way I viewed it too. I Also have lost a few points so I am somewhat pissed but I won't be throwing the card away. At $1 spend for .75 velocity points it is still one of the highest earning cards out there, and because I have the Signature free for live it's still an exceptional deal.

for Visa cards, only ANZ Black, and Virgin cards are better value on earn but the annual fee is quite a lot.

 

[VAG newbie]

For Prestige, a refund of the $700 may be a good idea, as it would almost cover the value of points I've lost. Then keep the for overseas spend only, then cancel when next annual fee due. Sounds like the easy way out?

Don't forget that they still charge a hefty 3.3% fx fee. So previously we were effectively buying points at 1c each. Now it's 1.32c each. A price rise of 32%!!!

 

[M@rcoPolo]

Looks like to me there is no hope in hell of any action from FOS. The Citi T&c 6.2 says that they can change the reward redemptions without notice. It only says 90 days notice to change the reward earning. This is no different to changing the value of the toaster from 50,0000 points to 75,000. The FOS is just going to laugh.

I disagree. Citi T&Cs point 6.2 states: "If we change the rate at which all Points in the program are generally earned or converted we will give you 90 days written notice of that change" - clearly they changed the rate at which points are converted so they need to give 90 days written notice!

Full T&Cs here: http://www.citibank.com.au/global_docs/pdf/MCG12231_1014.pdf

 

[doctau]

The third dot point there doesn't require advance notice, but I think it would be hard to claim converting points is "goods or services" when converting is explicitly called out in the first point.

 

[M@rcoPolo]

The third dot point there doesn't require advance notice, but I think it would be hard to claim converting points is "goods or services" when converting is explicitly called out in the first point.

Absolutely - this is crystal clear, they must provide 90 days notice if they change the rate at which all Points in the program are converted.

 

[theblank]

I disagree. Citi T&Cs point 6.2 states: "If we change the rate at which all Points in the program are generally earned or converted we will give you 90 days written notice of that change" - clearly they changed the rate at which points are converted so they need to give 90 days written notice!

ambiguous situation , but if you are going to quote the T&C back at them then you have to also acknowledge this which is far more specific. You would have to argue that Velocity points are not a goods or services but are rather a conversion. Hmmmm "

• If we change the Point value of individual goods or services in the program to reflect changes in the price charged by our suppliers for those goods or services, or if a particular Reward is unavailable we will notify you on our rewards website at the time you redeem your Reward "
  

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I disagree. Citi T&Cs point 6.2 states: "If we change the rate at which all Points in the program are generally earned or converted we will give you 90 days written notice of that change" - clearly they changed the rate at which points are converted so they need to give 90 days written notice!

Full T&Cs here: http://www.citibank.com.au/global_docs/pdf/MCG12231_1014.pdf

I think this is a fairly strong basis on which to base a claim. It is a change in the way points are converted.

 

[Plutonus]

ambiguous situation , but if you are going to quote the T&C back at them then you have to also acknowledge this which is far more specific. You would have to argue that Velocity points are not a goods or services but are rather a conversion. Hmmmm "

• If we change the Point value of individual goods or services in the program to reflect changes in the price charged by our suppliers for those goods or services, or if a particular Reward is unavailable we will notify you on our rewards website at the time you redeem your Reward "
  

Interesting that it specifically points out the change is to reflect a change in the amount they are charged. Guess it comes back to are they profiteering or responding to KF/VFF price changes, as to whether they can rely on that clause or not.

 

[M@rcoPolo]

ambiguous situation , but if you are going to quote the T&C back at them then you have to also acknowledge this which is far more specific. You would have to argue that Velocity points are not a goods or services but are rather a conversion. Hmmmm "

• If we change the Point value of individual goods or services in the program to reflect changes in the price charged by our suppliers for those goods or services, or if a particular Reward is unavailable we will notify you on our rewards website at the time you redeem your Reward "

Frequent flyer points are neither goods nor services. They can only be redeemed against goods and services (e.g. flights) provided you have enough frequent flyer points.
And if they were goods or services they would be subject to 10% GST - wound't they?

As there's a paragraph SPECIFICALLY spelling out 90 days notice is required if they change the rate at which points are CONVERTED I doubt they will stand a chance if they had to argue it with FOS after a large number of consumers lodged formal complains

Again - it would be nice if an AFF member with some legal background would be able to draft & share a formal letter of complain. Then the rest of us could use it to lodge complains with Citi (I'd suggest using the internal message system available at Citibank Australia - this way it's unambiguous and trackable, much better than a phone call) and if they don't come to the party it could be used to escalate to FOS.

I really really really don't see how Citi would be able to wiggle their way out of this with FOS!

 

[coolkid101]

wow. this is just devastating. we have been warehousing citi points for months if not years now... saving up for a honeymoon R to the US... we always thought warehousing them in the citi account would be safest... 900k saved which is now worth 144000 KF points less... absolutely devastating...
called citi and got given the same generic answer previously written about - VA is charging more etc etc... they didn't have anything to say when i asked about advance notice.
the rep said she spoke to a manager but wouldn't let me talk to the manager directly - she has however promised me a call back in 2-3 days and lodged a formal complaint to management on my behalf, but i'm not optimistic... i asked for the to clear my account at the old rate
even a compo of 10,000 will do nothing to the huge loss ..

will write back when i hear back from citi

 

[yohy?!]

important to remember that VA and SQ are on the other side of this decision too (VA in particularly very stealthily updated their website with the new rates).

probably worthwhile to give them some grief on social media as well, they have a far bigger audience and they should share at least partly in this - if only to pressure Citi more indirectly.

 

[KVK]

Tempted to do the same. The 4 points per dollar on foreign transactions is appealing, but as somebody pointed out, they do charge 3% fx fees. I can't see this card being used in Aus any more though.....

With the fee free Visa Signature card, probably keep this in the drawer just for the Priority Pass lounge.

 

[VAG newbie]

important to remember that VA and SQ are on the other side of this decision too (VA in particularly very stealthily updated their website with the new rates).

probably worthwhile to give them some grief on social media as well, they have a far bigger audience and they should share at least partly in this.

What new rates with VA? Shoot! Is there more bad news?

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

important to remember that VA and SQ are on the other side of this decision too (VA in particularly very stealthily updated their website with the new rates).

I think this may have something to do with the revised Visa interchange fees. I looked a couple of months ago and the "Super Premium Visa Signature" rate was about 2.0%. The latest rates on the Visa website (Visa Australia | About Visa | Interchange | Interchange) now say that from 1 November 2015, they are 1.375%.

Knowing Citibank, they probably decided to pass this reduction on last minute with little notice to VA or SQ, and are now blaming it on the airlines rather than being honest about it.

 

[fkcn]

May be overkill, but I've been sufficiently spooked by this whole thing to transfer points to VA from my other cards, in case they follow suit. Though it's only Citi so far, and I suspect that will remain the case.

Was planning to warehouse for SQ, but the 15% bonus to VA means less of a loss if I want to transfer VA to SQ later.

 

[lm118]

Got a call back from Citi, and they are trying to get out of it by quoting point 3 of 6.2 in the T&C's.

I did argue about "conversion" but the phone guy was unhelpful there.

I've expressed my displeasure and asked for resolution, and they are going to look in to it. I've asked for either extra citi rewards points to make up for the loss, or conversion of existing points balance at previous rates.

 

[paultiffen]

FOS is likely to be the best route here. If enough people complain and it's legitimate then they get charged 3000 per case opened

 

[JohnJa]

The big question will be how the word "converted" is to be applied. Someone has already mentioned that the points are first earned and then converted to citi reward points which hasn't changed.
But when you read details about the credit cards on Citi website, that terminology is not used - you only earn rewards points (without them being converted).

Take Advantage of:
The Citibank Rewards Program:
- Earn 1.5 rewards points per $1 spend on eligible domestic purchases
etc
[h=2][/h]And Clause 7.1 of the T&Cs also only makes reference to earn rates rather than first earning and then converting.

I plan to do as others have mentioned - ie hope for a satisfactory resolution, then divert my spending elsewhere but keep the fee free card open for the Priority Pass. I'll definitely look into the FOS complaint as well.