Revoking Privileges from those Voicing Opinions Contrary to Yours

Status
Not open for further replies.
Different to an individual saying a certain class of people are evil and will go to hell.
Except that Israel Folou never singled out a certain class of people, and he never said that certain class were evil.

Israel does repeatedly say "ALL...." including himself are sinners, and has only quoted or paraphrased Jesus Christ.

Its that small class of people and their flag wavers that are outraged that they have been lumped in with "ALL...", as if they are special, but the truth is in the eyes of God they are equal with everyone else, no exceptions and Israel Folou has clarified his comments to mean exactly this many times over.
 
Any issues that happened with MH in2014 were after QF alliance EK the year before.

Agree. The point was that if QF had entered a partnership with MH it would possibly have been unsustainable after 2014.

I note QF's words with regard to MH joining Oneworld in 2011 - but aren't those the same words trrotted out every time a new airline joins an alliance? From a purely personal perspective I don't see a couple of destinations in Europe (Rome, Istanbul and Amsterdam) being in the same league as EK.
 
I note QF's words with regard to MH joining Oneworld in 2011 - but aren't those the same words trrotted out every time a new airline joins an alliance? From a purely personal perspective I don't see a couple of destinations in Europe (Rome, Istanbul and Amsterdam) being in the same league as EK.
EK was not on the radar in 2011 and whether any partnership would become possibly unsustainable three years later has no bearing to my comment.

I recall plenty of references from that period here in the forum from the about the QF/MH "engagement" and how Qantas "jilted" MH when EK came a offering.

i.e. "Qantas under AJ was courting MH but EK came along with a better offer. "
 
Australia's highest-earning Velocity Frequent Flyer credit card: Offer expires: 21 Jan 2025
- Earn 60,000 bonus Velocity Points
- Get unlimited Virgin Australia Lounge access
- Enjoy a complimentary return Virgin Australia domestic flight each year

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

If you believe God is an imaginary sky fairy and hell doesn't exist then you have no reason to be offended by Folau's comments.
But unfortunately they find a way to be offended.

How dare your religion exclude us....

Yeah ok.

Well tell that to the 15 year old Polynesian kid struggling with his sexuality and idolises Folau, who has come out and told him he is immoral and needs to repent his sins (the kid doesn't).

Or the gay teenager and their parents who have paid good money to attend a rugby match, purchased merchandise plus memberships, paid their registrations to participate in rugby and also purchased a subscription to Foxtel so they can watch - they are part of the reason Folau can earn $1 million a year.

Nobody is saying Folau cannot practice or voice his faith, he can. He can tell the world on twitter about his almighty lord and sprout that his saviour is best thing for peoples minds and souls. But what he cannot do is belittle and denigrate certain groups of the public under his playing contract, as his employer has significant income contributed from both sponsors and participants alike who do not support groups of the public being told they are immoral.
 
Pretty iffy contract by the looks of it... this is probably behind a paywall, so I'll just leave this here.

Rugby a battlefield between religious right and liberal Australia

At the end of this astonishing imbroglio, there will be only one person still standing, Israel Folau or Raelene Castle. But it won’t really matter because the game of rugby union will be in ruins.

As utterly improbable as it seems, rugby union has become the battlefield in the war between the religious right and liberal Australians.

Now, it seems, the fighting will move into the quasi-legal field with a Rugby Australia Code of Conduct hearing. RA had hoped to avoid this.

When Folau first went public with his religious views this time last year, RA’s chief executive Castle secured from him an undertaking that he would keep his opinions to himself in future. It allowed a tenuous peace to be brokered, one which kept sponsors such as Qantas and Land Rover still within the fold where previously they had been threatening to walk.

Castle is now being criticised for orchestrating this peace and given that she is being blamed for everything that is going wrong in rugby, she is the perfect scapegoat. But why shouldn’t she have believed Folau? He promised not to make his views public again but now, on a mission that he feels is divinely inspired, he has gone back on his word.

He believes it is his calling to speak out, and maybe that, in his mind, overrides everything else. But can Castle really be blamed for taking him at his word?

She could have — and perhaps did — insert a punitive clause in the $4 million four-year contract she signed with him.

But, as was reported in The Weekend Australian, such a clause would have been in breach of the Collective Bargaining Agreement between RA and the Rugby Union Players Association.

Presumably she had good legal advice that such a clause endangered the entire contract and so, instead, she had little option but to place her faith in his private assurances to her, backed up by the standard “reputational damage” clause in the standard players’ contract.

More fool her.

Because now she must tread the path of a Code of Conduct hearing and, from RA’s point of view, that puts it in the lap of the gods.

It didn’t get the desired outcome it sought in the Kurtley Beale case back in 2014 and, while RA might have been considerably less stressed about it in both instances, Karmichael Hunt and James Slipper were effectively lashed with a limp lettuce leaf.

These were all cases where high-profile players had brought the game into disrepute whereas Folau had done nothing more than issue a warning that as recently as a decade ago, would have passed muster within a less-liberal Australia with barely a comment.

If RA is searching around for someone to blame, they need look no further than Ross Xenos. Thanks to the efforts of RUPA, the Code of Conduct process has been structured to make it very difficult for RA to rid themselves of problem players.

In particular, will RA and the NSW Rugby Union have cause to regret issuing their original statement on Thursday that it was their intention to sack Folau?

Might that be seen to be prejudicing any Code of Conduct hearing? And are RA and the Waratahs in lockstep over what is the correct punishment for Folau, if indeed he is worthy of any? Is it possible he could play in a sky blue jersey but not in gold?

Which brings us to the crux of the problem — how the code’s sponsors will respond.

Whether Folau wins at the Code of Conduct hearing or loses, that won’t be the end of it. If RA succeeds in terminating his contract, his immediate response would be to take them to court. If Alan Jones doesn’t fund his legal challenge, Folau’s church surely would. Heck, he is wealthy enough to fund it himself.

But if the Code of Conduct hearing determines Folau has not done anything worthy of dismissal, then it gets predictably messy for RA.

The only way they might retain their naming rights sponsor, Qantas, would be to decide — as the Queensland Reds did with Quade Cooper — that they would not select him for the Wallabies.

Imagine the outcry that would follow that decision: an organisation that was forced to cull the Western Force from the Super Rugby competition because it was broke now paying $4 million to a player not to play!

There might be an out, but it would entirely rest with Alan Joyce, the openly gay CEO of Qantas.

He could realise that Castle had done everything within her power to try to protect his sponsorship but to no avail. He could indeed, take the same pragmatic view he took when he entered into a partnership with Emirates Airlines.

It made good commercial sense, despite the fact that the United Arab Emirates held decidedly hostile views about homosexuality. He turned a blind eye then. He could do it again.

Otherwise, it all comes crashing down. Would Castle be forced to go, though it would not be entirely clear what her crime actually was? Believing the word of a man who said he was doing God’s will?

The ugliness of such a dismissal would be forever a stain on Australian rugby, though there would be an element who would parade it as compelling proof that she was always the wrong “person” for the job.

Even if Folau is kicked out of rugby, has he now sown the seeds of the code’s destruction? Pasifika players now make up 46 per cent of Australia’s professional rugby players. Samu Kerevi and Allan Alaalatoa both liked his original social media offering but RA conveniently has failed to question them about this.

No doubt they were hoping the fact that Alaalatoa left yesterday for South Africa with the Brumbies, while Kerevi is already in the republic will keep them out of the media’s clutches for at least the next week. Meanwhile, no one has yet been able to get to Reds coach Brad Thorn to test his feelings on the subject.

And the insurrection is spreading. England No 8 Billy Vunipola not only liked Folau’s post but then expanded on it himself, suggesting “man was made for woman”, in apparent breach of the Rugby Football Union’s own code of conduct.

He now has been asked to appear before them. His club, Saracens, intend to handle the matter privately.

While Jacinda Ardern was quick to remind Folau that he is a role model for many, has the NZ Prime Minister tested the waters of her own rugby constituency? What support is there among NZ’s own Pasifika rugby community for his views?

Rugby has always presented itself as a game for all shapes and sizes — and races. God willing, that will always remain the case.

WAYNE SMITH

SENIOR SPORT WRITER
After a long stint as rugby union editor, Wayne Smith joined The Australian's outstanding team of cricket writers in 2007. He first covered cricket in 1971, and is also an experienced swimming writer.
 
Pretty iffy contract by the looks of it... this is probably behind a paywall, so I'll just leave this here.

Rugby a battlefield between religious right and liberal Australia

@amaroo Maybe, but I think the ARU's ilk will certainly stay (and try hard to) stay well clear of this being a dismissal on the grounds of 'religious belief' and all this being about the reputational damage caused from disrespecting parts of the wider community, something the employee has previously been warned and reprimanded for.

Let's look at this situation from a corporate perspective. What would happen to an executive of an ASX 20 company if he/she were to post disrespectful views/comments of a particular group in society whether that be based on their sex, religion, sexual orientation? The CEO/board wouldn't hesitate and the termination would be swift as it is a threat to that companies reputation. This is what is going on here.
 
Last edited:
@amaroo Let's look at this situation from a corporate perspective. What would happen to an executive of an ASX 20 company if he/she were to post disrespectful views/comments of a particular group in society whether that be based on their sex, religion, sexual orientation? The CEO/board wouldn't hesitate and the termination would be swift as it is a threat to that companies reputation. This is what is going on here.

Only if it was lawful ... or they come to some agreement and part ways.

Will be interesting to see what RA do with this fellow. My 2c worth is they are stuffed trying to enforce termination based on a contract. He may walk off and repent on breaking his word, but he may want to force the issue....

IMO it's a pity he didn't quit social media, but equally any punishment cannot be outside the law. If RA believe their contract is valid - they should just get on with the job and get rid of him.
 
Only if it was lawful ... or they come to some agreement and part ways.

Will be interesting to see what RA do with this fellow. My 2c worth is they are stuffed trying to enforce termination based on a contract. He may walk off and repent on breaking his word, but he may want to force the issue....

IMO it's a pity he didn't quit social media, but equally any punishment cannot be outside the law. If RA believe their contract is valid - they should just get on with the job and get rid of him.

I agree on all your points.

But I think we're in for a drawn out process especially given that some of the other big name clubs who pay a motza overseas, plus the NRL, have come out and said "no thanks" on hiring him.
 
Pretty iffy contract by the looks of it... this is probably behind a paywall, so I'll just leave this here.

Rugby a battlefield between religious right and liberal Australia
In answer to your question "While Jacinda Ardern was quick to remind Folau that he is a role model for many, has the NZ Prime Minister tested the waters of her own rugby constituency? What support is there among NZ’s own Pasifika rugby community for his views?"

I think this is a good example that while Aussies and Kiwis are alike in many matters they aren't in everything. One of my observations as a Kiwi living in Australia is that Kiwis are not as tolerant of dickheads and nowhere is this more relevant that sportsmen and politicians. The NZ cricketers are famous for cleaning out there own sheds, whereas we are all aware of the misdemeanours of Australian cricketers. Its hard to put your finger on it but Australians seem much more tolerant of bad behaviourby their sportmen as long as they are winning, there is also the view in NZ amongst the All Blacks for example that noone is more important than the team which doesn't seem to exist in Australia.

Yes, there are some very devout NZ Pasifika rugby players but they dont prosthelytize, there is a view that personal beliefs should remain personal. Michael Jones is probably the most famous example. While Polynesians have a strong religous bent it's also worthwhile noting that many Polynesian countries manage to be supportive of a transgender community and tend to be quite tolerant of this.
 
No question from me .... I just posted an article that some might find interesting.
 
But back to reality. Israel Folau had responded to the Show Cause notice from Rugby Australia by saying he will leave it in "His" hands. That's actually hilarious.
Israel apparently is one of those who thinks his God speaks to him directly. I must admit I'm always a bit suspicious of such characters, leaving aside those evangelicals who thinks God has said they really need their own jet/house/etc, my daughter is currently spending time in her medical training in the states largest psychiatry ward. I don't want to speak ill of those who have psychiatric problems but talking to God (or thinking they are God themselves) seems to be somewhat of a common and recurrent theme.
 
Like they say - opinions, everyone has them.... but they’ve still got to be within the Law.

Like being sacked because someone doesn’t like your opinion....

 
Like they say - opinions, everyone has them.... but they’ve still got to be within the Law.

Like being sacked because someone doesn’t like your opinion....


No - read the article properly. He was sacked for the way he stated that opinion. Even the target of his scorn was uncomfortable with his sacking, and offered the excuse that Peter Ridd was partially a victim of the pathetic right-wing echo chamber that is Sky News (*sic).

Lots of them around .....
 
[mod hat]
A number of posts have been removed that contravene the terms of service. In particular:

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, bullying, anti-social, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws."

The thread has been re-opened and will be closely monitored. The moderation team will take a zero-tolerance approach to any contraventions. Note well the phrase "likely to offend" in the TOS!
[/mod hat]
 
Like they say - opinions, everyone has them.... but they’ve still got to be within the Law.

Like being sacked because someone doesn’t like your opinion....


Which was the point of this thread....
 
He was sacked for the way he stated that opinion.

He was sacked because he was not "collegial". That is, because he disagreed with the prevailing approved JCU position on climate "science" (specifcally on the health of the Barrier Reef). He won on all 17 points and incredibly the JCU VC has come out and baldly stated that the judge was wrong on all points!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.
Back
Top