Revoking Privileges from those Voicing Opinions Contrary to Yours

[Deleted member]

So, who draws the line? the Militant left? the extreme right? who is to be the final arbiter?
IMHO if you force people underground, then you're not silencing them, just removing them from public view.

and here we go :
https://www.smh.com.au/national/aus...ckdown-on-digital-giants-20190320-p515tw.html

 

[JohnK]

Never underestimate the hate or racism of the "put upon" who think their welfare, housing, pensions. medicare ect are only for their like minded white aussie born selves and not be shared with new Australians.

Hes going to have high numbers, the ignorance is strong.

That's racist in your definition?

New Australians, regardless of where they are from, should work as hard as existing Australians and not be given handouts.

That's not a racist statement.

Oh and I also think we should be taking less immigrants than we are now.

That's not a racist statement either.

P.S My motives are purely selfish. I don't want to share my hard work with anyone.

 

[Pushka]

and here we go :
https://www.smh.com.au/national/aus...ckdown-on-digital-giants-20190320-p515tw.html

I keep saying this these days. Where is the world going?

 

[Pushka]

That's racist in your definition?

New Australians, regardless of where they are from, should work as hard as existing Australians and not be given handouts.

That's not a racist statement.

Oh and I also think we should be taking less immigrants than we are now.

That's not a racist statement either.

P.S My motives are purely selfish. I don't want to share my hard work with anyone.

Much of the goodness in Australia has come from migrants particularly after wars. Look at the benefits of the Italian, Greek and then Vietnamese coming here and more recent migrants as well.

 

[Quickstatus]

What is racism?

Racism is to attribute to the individuals of a community, the attributes or characteristics of that community, on the basis of their racial identity, as if the attributes and characteristics are homogenous.
Replace racism with any other antigroup "xx_xx_phobia" label you want

The most interesting aspect of this is that the ones shouting 'racists" should often look in the mirror.

Much of the goodness in Australia has come from migrants particularly after wars. Look at the benefits of the Italian, Greek and then Vietnamese coming here and more recent migrants as well.

Not so the Asians with PhDs....

Much of the goodness in Australia has come from migrants particularly after wars. Look at the benefits of the Italian, Greek and then Vietnamese coming here and more recent migrants as well.

Yes but most are wanting some moderation. Something about too much of a good thing.....

Then there are those who for some reason do not want to fit in and actually think the Australian way of life is an anathema but still want to come here. To then say that those who want to come here but think that way, should not come here, is not attributing that view to everyone from that community and is not racism.

Many have been quickly labelled as racist, or xx_xphobe, as soon as they criticise someone of another race/culture/sexual proclivity/gender. Most commentary labelled as racism is not racism.

The ultimate minority group is the INDIVIDUAL.

 

[Happy Trails]

No Asians?
Time for a rerun:

 

[JohnK]

Much of the goodness in Australia has come from migrants particularly after wars. Look at the benefits of the Italian, Greek and then Vietnamese coming here and more recent migrants as well.

Yes this was the lucky country and many came out to work hard and make things better for themselves. They were also willing to assimilate.

@Quickstatus sums it up quite nicely. Call anyone that doesn't agree with your point of view a racist and you automatically win the argument.

 

[harvyk]

Let's not forget, While CL membership is about position as we know, Pollies, CEO's and the like, BUT it is after all l(ultimately) inked to spend!
Senator Anning actually spent a shed load in travel last year according the the SMH, it would be a bit rich to reward one of your biggest (Govt) spenders with a black ball on CL membership.
im not advocating any specific position here, just pointing out the conundrum

I do believe that CL membership has less to do with spend, and more to do with your ability to help or hurt QF. Pollies can very easily pass laws which will hurt QF, thus I've always seen CL membership as an almost bribe to try and grease the wheels. Other companies do the same, they just haven't put a public name to their "grease the wheels program". It's the same reason why CEO's of large companies are given invites, an upset CEO has a lot of sway in deciding large future travel contracts.

As for a senator who is only there by accident, and who's public profile is in the dumps, coupled with the high likelihood that they won't survive the next election, hardly much risk of them hurting QF now is there.

 

[Pushka]

Yes this was the lucky country and many came out to work hard and make things better for themselves. They were also willing to assimilate.

@Quickstatus sums it up quite nicely. Call anyone that doesn't agree with your point of view a racist and you automatically win the argument.

I’m not sure about the assimilate bit. Worked hard, yes. Integrate with existing population? Not for the first generation who lived in the same suburbs and didn’t learn English. Lots of non English speaking nonnas around. It took to the Second and third generations to get real assimilation going.

 

[burmans]

Which is a problem for QF, if you make one rule for all, how can you exclude one ?

Its a bit like parliament, if you have the right to make a rule/laws you also have the right to change them. Suggesting a company doesnt have the right to change its own rule's on something like this is a bit silly IMO. As individuals we have the right as to who we invite into our lounge room, why shouldn't businesses have the same right. As others have said its not like they are actually banning them from flyingm they are just denying him a perk.

 

[burmans]

who is to be the final arbiter?

Well, in this case the answer would apear pretty obvious. Qantas, it's their lounge, who do you think should be the arbiter?

 

[DC3]

For the Chairman’s Lounge (i.e., the QF chairman), invitations are sent out (or not) on behalf of the Chairman?

 

[Happy Trails]

Why don't they just send out brown envelopes stuffed with cash?
Or would that be considered unethical?

 

[oz_mark]

His "charming chit chat" was hate speech and incites race and religion hate.

Im OK with standing on the side that says its not OK and support businesses not extending complimentary benefits to him or any other person that sprouts his bullshit.

To me, this is key. Was it simply a difference of opinion or was it a hate speech?

Where is the line?

The UN had a crack in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights:

Article 19

1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.

2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:

(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;

(b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.

Article 20

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.

 

[theblank]

It’s not uncommon that a business would like to distance itself from people who make racist comments.

Except that Fraser Anning did not make racist comments in his letter.

 

[JohnK]

To me, this is key. Was it simply a difference of opinion or was it a hate speech?



The UN had a crack in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights:

Ask Erdogan if his comments were a difference of opinion or hate speech and whether he thinks he offended anyone?

 

[Deleted member]

Much of the goodness in Australia has come from migrants particularly after wars. Look at the benefits of the Italian, Greek and then Vietnamese coming here and more recent migrants as well.

Whilst I agree with you, the main feature of post (white) settlement of Australia was courtesy of a white Australia policy which encouraged European settlers. Later Asian (Vietnamese et al). The single factor which has made their assimilation easy compared to recent Muslim immigrants / refugees, is that the previous migrants were either “Christian European “ in the main, or at least culturally ambivalent about the prevailing religions in Australia.
Irrespective of how you feel about Islam, and regardless of any friendships we may have with those of that faith. Islam has shown itself to be fundamentalist in nature. The wearing of the hijab, and a perception that women in Islam are little more than chattels. It offends our sense of a fair go.
It doesn’t help that some rigid practices are brought here and are at odds with the Australian way of life.
I guess we will need to wait another 50myears or so to see if the food , culture and religion weave themselves into Australian society in the same way Greek, Italian Vietnamese etc has.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, in this case the answer would apear pretty obvious. Qantas, it's their lounge, who do you think should be the arbiter?

Touché. However I’m referring to a broader issue here.

 

[samh004]

At the end of the day, it's Qantas' lounge. They set the rules and standards by which members are considered and then given CL. There may be wording in those rules/standards that now disqualifies him from the CL. But it's basically their freedom of speech, to say whether they want him to have the membership or not.

 

[pauly7]

Why don't they just send out brown envelopes stuffed with cash?
Or would that be considered unethical?

To be boring and insect some reality, the actual book value of QF and VA throwing lounge access at influentials is very low, which makes sense if you think about it - what is actually being provided physically on X amount of occasions per year for X minutes.

The other soft benefits of the membership are selective and most importantly variable. And it facilitates frequent flyers business dealings.

So it is allowed..... precisely because it’s not valued as buckets of cash at all.