Rewarding Long Term Frequent Flyer Loyalty

[lae]

Funnily enough I still think of flying when I hear Rhapsody in Blue (UA).. that's far sadder than any attachment to QF!

Seriously though many of us, depending on our generation, will equate QF as *THE* national flag carrier. Because up to about the 90's it pretty much was QF and there's a certain home town loyalty inherent to most of us I think. A bit like as a Victorian I support a Victorian football team rathe rthan one from WA or QLD.

I do think though these are historic ties but most of us are pragmatic enough and also in a position (eg: have LTG) to recognise this and find what works for us at the lowest cost. Much like nobody buys(and makes) Oz cars anymore.

and despite everything, I'd rather hang in your average QC than a UA Club and we do forget that the service levels Australia receives, specially domestic, are still way more than most of the world get. QF has a product that has gone downhill absolutely, but they generally run a decent schedule that is reliable. I'm flying to BNE over the weekend and I don't really consider that a delay is very likely. Surethey happen, but it's not the norm for QF domestic, and if it is, often it's stuff like the weather (hello SYD) affecting ops rather than tech issues or stuff specifically within QF's control (yes I know the 717 and 744 fleet are not doing so great).

One key thing for me is reliability and that I get where I want, when i want. QF, more or less, delivers on that through hundreds of flights I can only count on one, or maybe both, hands the number of real issues that have happened over the past few decades. That's a pretty decent record IMHO. Not to say that other carriers are much worse mind you, though there are many more out there with far worse reliability and safety records.

That doesn't mean I'm wedding to QF, but I'd rather stay with them vs VA - yes partly due to LTG - but also because the grass isn't specifically that much greener over there. This is domestically speaking of course. International, it's a whole other ball game. and yes, I to o vote with my $$$. Next month it's NZ to the USA, a few months back it was MH/SQ/TG. However I'm also looking at the current QF sale with a view to a flight or two. That's just me.

Luckily we live in a country and environment with quite a bit of choice, and that's a good thing.

Funnily enough I still think of flying when I hear Rhapsody in Blue (UA).. that's far sadder than any attachment to QF!

Seriously though many of us, depending on our generation, will equate QF as *THE* national flag carrier. Because up to about the 90's it pretty much was QF and there's a certain home town loyalty inherent to most of us I think. A bit like as a Victorian I support a Victorian football team rathe rthan one from WA or QLD.

I do think though these are historic ties but most of us are pragmatic enough and also in a position (eg: have LTG) to recognise this and find what works for us at the lowest cost. Much like nobody buys(and makes) Oz cars anymore.

and despite everything, I'd rather hang in your average QC than a UA Club and we do forget that the service levels Australia receives, specially domestic, are still way more than most of the world get. QF has a product that has gone downhill absolutely, but they generally run a decent schedule that is reliable. I'm flying to BNE over the weekend and I don't really consider that a delay is very likely. Surethey happen, but it's not the norm for QF domestic, and if it is, often it's stuff like the weather (hello SYD) affecting ops rather than tech issues or stuff specifically within QF's control (yes I know the 717 and 744 fleet are not doing so great).

One key thing for me is reliability and that I get where I want, when i want. QF, more or less, delivers on that through hundreds of flights I can only count on one, or maybe both, hands the number of real issues that have happened over the past few decades. That's a pretty decent record IMHO. Not to say that other carriers are much worse mind you, though there are many more out there with far worse reliability and safety records.

That doesn't mean I'm wedding to QF, but I'd rather stay with them vs VA - yes partly due to LTG - but also because the grass isn't specifically that much greener over there. This is domestically speaking of course. International, it's a whole other ball game. and yes, I to o vote with my $$$. Next month it's NZ to the USA, a few months back it was MH/SQ/TG. However I'm also looking at the current QF sale with a view to a flight or two. That's just me.

Luckily we live in a country and environment with quite a bit of choice, and that's a good thing.

I have been flying Qantas since 1974 long before QFF, and probably any airline FF programs were introduced and then just when Qantas rolled out their FF program I found myself living overseas and whilst still undertaking extensive flying I was not able to utilise Qantas for it. Once back in Australia I started fly QF again and am now close to LTG status and despite having been Platinum FF status for many years due to circumstances beyond my control I have become stuck in Silver status land for the second year now. Despite this I will continue to fly Qantas because I still need to get where I am going and to me that is the whole point, you fly because you have to surely not to because you want to spend Thousands of dollars chasing status? Finally it is my experience that the vast majority of high status frequent flyers have gotten there on other peoples money i.e. an employer be they private or Government or as a self employed legitimate tax deduction.

 

[RichardMEL]

Does to me. But doesn't influence my spend. What I used to like as a kid returning from an o/s holiday was hearing an Aussie accent from the flight deck. Slightly softened the blow of holiday over.

Back in the day of course we'd often hear aussie accents on CX and other international airlines. Still have aussie Captains on EK and others too since obviously not only Aussies fly for Australian based airlines

 

[TonyHancock]

Back in the day of course we'd often hear aussie accents on CX and other international airlines. Still have aussie Captains on EK and others too since obviously not only Aussies fly for Australian based airlines

Griselda is quite happy to sell you that Mars bar for $5 and will effect an Australian accent whilst playing Waltzing Matilda or what's that other one, oh yes I still Call Australia home, on her music playing thingy.

 

[Seat0B]

This thread has brought up my two favourite QF topics - life after Platinum and self-funded loyalty. Like the original post, my husband and I have both been Platinum continually for many years and both are LTG.

We travel for pleasure enough each year at our personal expense to keep this status, with my husband also having additional work travel. I have been self-employed with little relevant travel - maybe a couple of interstate trips a year.

We are retiring and will keep travelling (always in J) but probably will take fewer, but longer trips, in the future and it is possible that our Platinum status might lapse on occasion and we'll be dropped to Gold. While we would certainly maintain Gold annually anyway, LTG is security. However, we have no incentive to fly QF or OW at all if we lose Platinum. And QF's business product is inferior to many other airlines which also works against loyalty. We now choose the airline with the best deal and build a Star Alliance portfolio.

QF probably does not need to do too much to keep my loyalty but doing nothing may kill it. They could offer some benefits based on years of being a Platinum and/or achieving LTG. It could be needing a lower annual points to qualify for Platinum (say, 800 rather than 1200) if LTG. Or, 'earn' a Platinum benefit (e.g. access to F lounges, 150% points, or access to request for FF seats) after maybe each 5 consecutive Platinum years that could be used for a period of time (minimum year) after losing Platinum.

Self-funding is a messy issue, I know, but valid. I have asked many people why they fly QF and the most common response is that they don't 'choose'. It is just what their company books or has a deal with. The loyalty is with the company and they should be getting the benefits, not the individual. I know of cases of QF Platinums where their company use QF for them but they book other airlines for their personal travel to cover their bases with status in both One World and Star Alliance.

On the other side, self-funded non-business travellers who have made it to Platinum or LTG are truly loyal but get no recognition for it, despite always making a choice and using their own money to pay for it.

Yes Pat2065, that is exactly my situation now. We will make 2 Business class trips each year (to visit relatives and have fun), which may or may not retain Platinum (depending on DSC etc), and of course now I will have to re-qualify as Platinum meaning a higher SC requirement. As I said in my original post, there is literally NO incentive for me to choose Qantas for those trips.

 

[Seat0B]

I've been in a similar circumstance. I have just under 38,000 LTSC and was also P1 for 3 years and have been platinum for the past 15 years. Qantas is ruthless on P1 renewal. You've simply got to get the 3,600 every year or no go. Sad story and I felt the same as you when I came within only a few hundred SC on the P1 and they wouldn't budge. That's life. The worst thing about P1 is losing it, because the service is excellent. I tried the arguments of averaging previous years as I'd clocked up around 5,000 in a previous year but none of that washed. P1 said it's not fair to those that make the threshold each year if they're being flexible. At the time, I think there were around 2,000 P1 FF's out of around 10 million QFF members, so it's a pretty exclusive group. This is my first post by the way, since I joined. I'm only writing because I really sympathise with your situation.

thanks Benny64. I've let go of the P1 thing as I now genuinely travel less than I used to. So I'm only talking about Platinum. And it really is frustrating when so many years, I have had a lot of excess status credits eg the year I got 3100, then the other year I got 3300, and several years of 2000s. Anyway, it is what it is. And thanks for posting and welcome to the group.

 

[woodborer]

Yes Pat2065, that is exactly my situation now. We will make 2 Business class trips each year (to visit relatives and have fun), which may or may not retain Platinum (depending on DSC etc), and of course now I will have to re-qualify as Platinum meaning a higher SC requirement. As I said in my original post, there is literally NO incentive for me to choose Qantas for those trips.

And I imagine that Alan Joyce would be among the first to say don't do it if it's not working for you

 

[Seat0B]

I suppose one benefit of being a SF flyer .... you're not dependant upon someone else maintaining/paying for your status

Hi Amaroo, not that I think it's really relevant, but I am a self funded flyer. I'm self empoyed. So work travel is funded by my company - oh wait, that's me!

 

[Seat0B]

I have to say that the comment about "the sooner you break the bonds of Qantas ‘loyalty’, the sooner you’ll start enjoying the freedom of a better choice of airline offerings and cheaper fares....." is sooooo 100 % right. I am a long term Platinum Traveler with QF and the day they charged me @$5K for having to cancel my and my partners first ever flight (thats, 1st ever cancellation), 4 months out, with no regrets and with me having to battle them in arbitration just to get back 3K out of a total of 8K, I decided then that Qantas Loyalty is a myth. I now travel business and First at half the costs and with twice the service on full service safe and reputable airlines. We are BLIND until we realise that our loyalty costs us dearly. Qantas is no longer the Aussie Airline in my eyes. Its a careless machine of a foreign CEO with no understanding of true Aussie fair go. I surely sympathize with he great flight staff who have to endure the appalling management. I hope all Platinum flyers see this and sooner realise their day of disappointment and betrayal at the hands of QF management will come.

I totally agree PAULDQLD. What airlines are you recommending for me now my liberation is real?

 

[Seat0B]

Yep, same sort of thing happened to me 8 Years ago when I was on the verge of retirement and had to cancel a trip in December....no understanding....not even a reply!
So voted with my wallet. Since then my wife and I have paid for around 15 first and business class trips to Europe and America on other airlines.
If I can avoid it I will not pay to fly with Q although I have flown Q using FF points from other one world airlines.
Most satisfying is that this year we have a First Q flight to Europe booked using Q points earned thru CC points!
I have nothing but disdain for Q’s version of loyalty and wouldn’t p*** on that little ...... if he was on fire.
Why the little a*** h*** gets a massive bonus just because the jet fuel price tanks but nothing happens to him for losses and no dividends beats me.
I get the feeling I’m not alone on this!

Hi Jack 1160 - exactly my situation. I'm actually quite a good piece of business for the future, after a short term blip for a bereavement, but that is not recognised or even considered. They just don;t want to know.

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes Pat2065, that is exactly my situation now. We will make 2 Business class trips each year (to visit relatives and have fun), which may or may not retain Platinum (depending on DSC etc), and of course now I will have to re-qualify as Platinum meaning a higher SC requirement. As I said in my original post, there is literally NO incentive for me to choose Qantas for those trips.

if you're flying paid (or points) J then what is the advantages of the status to you? Yes, the F lounge is nice and the extra points earn is nice. What else?

I'm not having a go... I'm just thinking that those of us that can afford to fly in premium cabins have pretty much all the benefits of the status levels any way.

And if rom now on you're only going to be doung a couple of trips like this a year, then you'd not qualify for Plat (or equivalent in most other programs) anyway....

 

[Seat0B]

if you're flying paid (or points) J then what is the advantages of the status to you? Yes, the F lounge is nice and the extra points earn is nice. What else?

I'm not having a go... I'm just thinking that those of us that can afford to fly in premium cabins have pretty much all the benefits of the status levels any way.

And if rom now on you're only going to be doung a couple of trips like this a year, then you'd not qualify for Plat (or equivalent in most other programs) anyway....

Yes RichardMEL, that's exactly where I have arrived. Honestly, my initial response was down to misplaced loyalty and positive sentiment towards Qantas flowing from a long, positive association. Really, the main benefit I will miss is priority access to Award flight bookings - I;ve made a few in my time, and I have a lot of FF points to go with the 28,000+ SC. I would have liked to use them while I had better chances. And there is good advice from an earlier poster to use up your points while you still have Platinum. Unfortunately for me, I was distracted by Dad's illness and death and honestly did not spare a moment thinking of points, status or anything. So really, that's the only thing that I will miss when I spend my fun tickets elsewhere.

BTW probably might qualify for Platinum with 2 x J to UK via Dubai (to see my son) each year if I flew Qantas (and even that's hard now if you want to go via Dubai, you get Emirates which is actually pretty fine with me). Its around 480-500 SC per trip depending how I connect. That, along with the bit of work related domestic (in Y) I still do would usually be enough to retain platinum, especially with DSC if I plan ahead. But the extra few hundred SC now required to requalify for Platinum will likely be permanently beyond my reach, and so will mean I stop even trying. I am quite adjusted to using other airlines now. So happy to hear suggestions about who else people recommend as a good J product.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Yes RichardMEL, that's exactly where I have arrived. Honestly, my initial response was down to misplaced loyalty and positive sentiment towards Qantas flowing from a long, positive association. Really, the main benefit I will miss is priority access to Award flight bookings - I;ve made a few in my time, and I have a lot of FF points to go with the 28,000+ SC. I would have liked to use them while I had better chances. And there is good advice from an earlier poster to use up your points while you still have Platinum. Unfortunately for me, I was distracted by Dad's illness and death and honestly did not spare a moment thinking of points, status or anything. So really, that's the only thing that I will miss when I spend my fun tickets elsewhere.

BTW probably might qualify for Platinum with 2 x J to UK via Dubai (to see my son) each year if I flew Qantas (and even that's hard now if you want to go via Dubai, you get Emirates which is actually pretty fine with me). Its around 480-500 SC per trip depending how I connect. That, along with the bit of work related domestic (in Y) I still do would usually be enough to retain platinum, especially with DSC if I plan ahead. But the extra few hundred SC now required to requalify for Platinum will likely be permanently beyond my reach, and so will mean I stop even trying. I am quite adjusted to using other airlines now. So happy to hear suggestions about who else people recommend as a good J product.

we are trying Qatar Qsuites in April - supposed to be the best J product around. They do have a record of substituting planes, but we have 4 legs with Qsuites (CBR-DOH-JFK return), so I figure we can’t miss out on all of them

 

[amaroo]

Hi Amaroo, not that I think it's really relevant, but I am a self funded flyer. I'm self empoyed. So work travel is funded by my company - oh wait, that's me!

Maybe you need to take more holidays

My post was tongue in cheek )), but given the responses I've read on this thread there appears to be an overwhelming number that accumulate status via work flights only .... no surprises that once work flying ceasing - so does status > QF LTG .

Like I posted upthread - if you're flying premium cabins, status is kinda worthless.

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes RichardMEL, that's exactly where I have arrived. Honestly, my initial response was down to misplaced loyalty and positive sentiment towards Qantas flowing from a long, positive association. Really, the main benefit I will miss is priority access to Award flight bookings - I;ve made a few in my time, and I have a lot of FF points to go with the 28,000+ SC. I would have liked to use them while I had better chances. And there is good advice from an earlier poster to use up your points while you still have Platinum. Unfortunately for me, I was distracted by Dad's illness and death and honestly did not spare a moment thinking of points, status or anything. So really, that's the only thing that I will miss when I spend my fun tickets elsewhere.

BTW probably might qualify for Platinum with 2 x J to UK via Dubai (to see my son) each year if I flew Qantas (and even that's hard now if you want to go via Dubai, you get Emirates which is actually pretty fine with me). Its around 480-500 SC per trip depending how I connect. That, along with the bit of work related domestic (in Y) I still do would usually be enough to retain platinum, especially with DSC if I plan ahead. But the extra few hundred SC now required to requalify for Platinum will likely be permanently beyond my reach, and so will mean I stop even trying. I am quite adjusted to using other airlines now. So happy to hear suggestions about who else people recommend as a good J product.

Do you have a real need/desire to go through DXB? Be aware that recent DSC promotions have required QF metal flights only, no codeshares, so you would not earn on those sectors(well not earn DSC). You can always go QF9/10 via PER (though that's a really long time in the one plane) or via SIN.

Also QSuites as suggested would be a good option (I'm considering this myself).

Be aware also of the 4~ requirement to retain status (though I suspect that is probably not a big issue for you).

I absolutely understand what you're saying and it seems pretty unfair that after all this time, spend and "loyalty" over the years that they could not simply just have given you that extra year of Platinum due to your circumstances.

The problem is, as discussed much earlier in this thread, that common sense says yes, just do it. It makes things become very grey and there's no firm line. Why not rey status because my cat has been in hospital for radiation treatment or my best mate's mum passed or because I've had to have chemo or something and been grounded for some months. I mean where do you stop? This is clearly the problem here.

Also over recent years it's clear QF's become far less generous (ie: the apparent loss of free comps vs the paid status option). Probably being pushed by large FF liabilities and the cost pressures of comp status (yes, it would have a value)

Ruth have you called QFF and actually asked if they would extend via points payment as has been offered to others? That would seem fair (and you're points rich, so the 120k would be worth it to you it seems)? Or perhaps ask for a challenge? they may not do that though..

I was also thinking more generally about businesses wo extend benefits to people for being long term customers.. the airlines and hotels are about the only ones I can think of. Are there any others?

 

[woodborer]

The problem is, as discussed much earlier in this thread, that common sense says yes, just do it. It makes things become very grey and there's no firm line. Why not rey status because my cat has been in hospital for radiation treatment or my best mate's mum passed or because I've had to have chemo or something and been grounded for some months. I mean where do you stop? This is clearly the problem here.

The problem is codifying rules that can be applied consistently. And given how some people love to bang on about Qantas being inconsistent, surely consistently applying rules is a good thing?

 

[RichardMEL]

The problem is codifying rules that can be applied consistently. And given how some people love to bang on about Qantas being inconsistent, surely consistently applying rules is a good thing?

Very good point. For me personally yes I have no issue with what QF have done. As a person reading the situation I can absolutely understand Rutrh (and others in similar situations) feelings that it isn't fair and QF could "cut a bit of slack" or use common sense.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I totally agree PAULDQLD. What airlines are you recommending for me now my liberation is real?

Let me put into perspective......
I've never paid more than $2,000 for Asia -> Australia, return in Business (CX,SQ,MH etc). Full fare points earning tickets.
In fact, today I arrived back on from KUL-BNE=KUL on an AUD $1,600 ticket in biz class on MH. Credited the flights to Enrich, which almost nets me enough miles for an award flight KUL-HKG-KUL worth ~AUD $600. That award flight will also earn miles.

My rule of thumb is maximum AUD $100 per hour for a medium/long haul, and AUD $200 per hour short haul (premium cabins only)

Qantas has an excellent brand, and therefore command the premium. The same is true for Qantas Loyalty - and the premium it commands is the reduction of benefits/status earning power/points earn it needs to provide in order to secure your incremental spend.

If that premium is worthwhile to you - play the QF game. If not - just about any other airline will be better for you. Even Jetstar, Scoot, Air Asia etc are good airlines if you get a good price.

 

[Seat0B]

Do you have a real need/desire to go through DXB? Be aware that recent DSC promotions have required QF metal flights only, no codeshares, so you would not earn on those sectors(well not earn DSC). You can always go QF9/10 via PER (though that's a really long time in the one plane) or via SIN.

RichardMEL, more's the pity yes, we have to go via DXB. That's where our son currently lives. We only go on to UK/Europe because of the outrageous cost of flights to DXB (QF or EK) - effectively you get a very cheap holiday to Europe (often well less than $1000 per person to go to UK or Europe) and lots of extra SC by doing that. And yes the DSC requirements for QF metal are nasty if you don't read the small print.

 

[Seat0B]

Maybe you need to take more holidays .

Ooh Amaroo, yes I certainly do!!

 

[woodborer]

Qantas has an excellent brand, and therefore command the premium. The same is true for Qantas Loyalty - and the premium it commands is the reduction of benefits/status earning power/points earn it needs to provide in order to secure your incremental spend.

If that premium is worthwhile to you - play the QF game. If not - just about any other airline will be better for you. Even Jetstar, Scoot, Air Asia etc are good airlines if you get a good price.

Qantas can be cheaper if you are willing and able to have fares originating outside Australia. If you have a need to be to our North frequently, it is worth investigating booking fares the other way around (ie not from Australia)