Rewarding Long Term Frequent Flyer Loyalty

[Pushka]

I guess someone getting lifetime status through their own choice is more 'loyal' than someone that has got there on the back of working for company having a contract with Qantas.

I think your quote thingy played up there as I didn’t say that. Much too clever for me.

 

[oz_mark]

I think your quote thingy played up there as I didn’t say that. Much too clever for me.

That's weird. I have edited the post - hope it's right now!

 

[Matt_01]

I guess someone getting lifetime status through their own choice is more 'loyal' than someone that has got there on the back of working for company having a contract with Qantas.

I get you point and fully accept that. I was a business owner with a company policy to fly QF and was part of the older QF business program what ever it was called before Qantas Business Rewards.

I have LTG for choosing to use QF so am I self funded as at the end of the day the cost of travel came out of my pocket. Just a different perspective.

 

[Matt_01]

It is according to the screenshot I just posted at least for Qantas.

What screenshot?

 

[Pushka]

What screenshot?

This one

 

[juddles]

....

Then throw in the “self-funded” stuff, which is a whole other topic. I don’t quite get this and maybe @TonyHancock didn’t as he created one of his quizzes on this very subject....

I am also a bit unsure of what relevance the funding issue means to many people. I do understand that some have a notion that if travel is self-funded it demonstrates perhaps higher loyalty on the part of the flier than someone who gets SC etc due to work.

But at the end of the day that is meaningless. For God's sake, why is it so hard for some people to accept that Qantas is just a business, like any other?? Who cares how they portray themselves - this like everything else is sheer marketing. Even if they talk about "loyalty", this is just a sales pitch, as so many have already pointed out.

I love Qantas, for many reasons. (and I also hate many things about them) But despite for me liking them, I am absolutely free from any illusions - the day I stop giving them my money they will not care for me. That is obvious.

I think that as consumers "we" get caught up with narrow and foolish perceptions. Each of us is just one customer. Qantas is not a "person", it is not a "thing" that thinks and feels. It is a business run by many people, and these same employees come and go. "Loyalty" is never going to be a true concept for any business, in the sense that most here cry about. A business may decide that it is the interest of said business to offer bonuses, discounts, whatever to certain customers that show xx_X spend or YYYY behaviour, but it is simply a policy in the interest of the business.

We here in the forum have lamented many changes in Qantas in recent years - everything from loss of any seat rewards to the reductions in benefits via "simpler and fairer". But at the same time the business has enormously improved in strength and profitability. It shows that what they do, which is always about them, actually works!! Despite all the protestations, declarations that due to such changes people will stop flying them, etc, their business is booming!

 

[JohnK]

Are you sure that is the case JohnK? I could have sworn there is an article on here suggesting NB and PS members don’t get access to premium awards until around 297 days prior to departure.

The conditions posted by @Pushka mention Selected Qantas awards may be available to Gold and Platinum earlier than Siilver and Bronze.

Need to ask Qantas for their definition of "Selected".

 

[oz_mark]

I am also a bit unsure of what relevance the funding issue means to many people. I do understand that some have a notion that if travel is self-funded it demonstrates perhaps higher loyalty on the part of the flier than someone who gets SC etc due to work.

It's about context. When people say that they have been loyal to Qantas for xx years, and have yy status credits, and think Qantas should do more, then it's part of the context. Maybe that context is not important to you, but for me it is of interest,

To some people, it seems important that Qantas should care when they stop flying. If it's work related travel, good chance that someone else is doing the travel now - so that person is now the important customer. Why should the care about who used to do the travelling

Generally speaking, individual frequent flyers aren't as important as they think they are

 

[burmans]

In my opinion loyalty in airlines, hotels or anything else is geared to benefit the supplier not the consumer.

Well of course, the suppliers create the program, so clearly they create with their own interests in mind. It never ceases to amaze the number of people who dont "get" this when it's clear, obvious and when you think it through fairly rational behaviour.

 

[TonyHancock]

Generally speaking, individual frequent flyers aren't as important as they think they are

I can categorically state I am more important than anyone thinks I am.

 

[Pushka]

I can categorically state I am more important than anyone thinks I am.

You are having quite the jollies at the moment? Some spare time on your hands?

 

[RichardMEL]

Coming at it from another angle I don't see the same level of loyalty and emotional attachment when it comes to credit cards or even hotel chains. Air travel definitely stimulates an emotional reaction in many - just look at the thread about the crumbs in the QF SYD J Lounge.

Ah.. I see

I think the difference between a CC points earning system and airlines is that the benefit one can achieve is signnificantly different (and tangible) with an airline program (and I would also say with a hotel one) such that benefits are worth that much more on a personal emotional level in terms of experience. For example, There are multiple CCs one can get to earn points in your specific program of choice, and at varying levels they more or less offer the same deal, but like with the recent Amex devaluation in earning (effective in April) all it means i sless points, and one can modify one's spend and find a new product to still earn points. However let's say that SQ, for example, made Star partners be able to book SQ suites with their points. That would be a pretty nice thing to have. Conversely if QF devalues J award pricing and makes it that much more to get to the cabin of choice on QF, or say EK, CX etc I think that has far more of an impact.

Or more simply.. one can earn points in lots of ways, but the experience provided by a hotel or airline is far more personal to us and we will remember the times the food was rubbish, the lounge was a horror or that A380 went tech in DXB and stranded us for a day.

I also think the emotional/attachment part comes down to brand and product... if you like it, you're going to go back most likely. Marketing has a lot to do with this as well.

 

[wandering_fred]

Actually there is one thing the QFF program could do for LT status holders that would not directly cost the program any money. LT status holders do not need to fly 4 ~ flights to retain the status. Simply carry that forward and LT status holders would only need to earn the required number of SC (~ being "optional") for the higher status. Yes P1 would earn the squiggles in any case in the process of earning the SC threshold on QF flights.

Again just wandering
Fred

 

[blackcat20]

The conditions posted by @Pushka mention Selected Qantas awards may be available to Gold and Platinum earlier than Siilver and Bronze.

Need to ask Qantas for their definition of "Selected".

Usually applies to premium rewards, ie F and J.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Look at it from QFF perspective.

Qantas has near domination on the Australian market.

This.

There is simply no business need for QF to do this. All it would be is an additional (sizeable?) hit to the bottom line.

Certainly not under AJ's watch...

 

[RichardMEL]

A few suggestions on what would make me feel that my loyalty is rewarded.

Bring back anytime lounge access. No, seriously.

P1 has this more or less. WP has arrivals access from Transcon flights.

The thing is.. you would go to the airport when not flying just to use a QC or J lounge? lol Or you mean if flying on another airline you'd use the QC? hmm

Differentiate between earned flying points and other points and provide a discount on award tickets if using points earned from flying.

More or less provided for - points earned from flying also earn SC which give status. Status pax, specially WP and WP1 can request release of reward seats.. a real benefit over the "card churners" imho

Give access to award tickets to status members before general release for everyone. Perhaps 350 days for Platinum members, 340 days for Gold members, 330 days for Silver and other Overworld elites and 300 days for non status members.

Again, QF does do this. The problem is that other OW programs do get access too which muddies the waters and makes it more difficult but again, WP+ can request release.

 

[RichardMEL]

This.

There is simply no business need for QF to do this. All it would be is an additional (sizeable?) hit to the bottom line.

Certainly not under AJ's watch...

However in a capitalist system isn't this the aim of every business - captute the biggest market share and keep them for as much revenue as possible?

The dominant position in a more or less cosy duopoly such as in Australia (also see Air Canada) means there's less incentive to innovate or even provide better service.. at least better than the other option.

 

[opusman]

How much would LTP cost them in reality? If someone is in the F lounge then they're flying QF or JQ (or EK I guess). If someone is in another airline's F lounge what would the marginal cost be to QF over someone accessing a J lounge?

 

[RichardMEL]

How much would LTP cost them in reality? If someone is in the F lounge then they're flying QF or JQ (or EK I guess). If someone is in another airline's F lounge what would the marginal cost be to QF over someone accessing a J lounge?

It could be hefty. Pax could also be flying on a oneworld carrier in any class, QF or JQ. EK's a little different.

The cost for say a QF WP going to the CX F lounges or BA Galleries F well obviously I do not know, but there IS a charge back. If the passenger is not there because they are flying F as Class of Service, then the lounge owner/operator (eg CX) *will* charge back to QFF for those uses (the secondary reason to scan BP's as well as confirming eligibility).

Further to that, it would then mean domestically QF J lounges become the norm and not QC.. and it may be just an internal cost to QF and marginal at that, but no doubt there is some sort of figure placd on that.

Again it all depends on what the usage is if I hold a mythical LTP and I fly MEL-SYD in J weekly then the maginal cost is basically zero. However if I have the LTP and fly JQ Y say BNE-ADL(I'm picking ports where QF lounges are in the same terminal to use) weekly there would be a significant cost (yes I know ADL is a poor example due to no J lounge, but you get the idea I am trying to get across).

and the lack of a LTP offering apart from that, or that QF would see the need to do it apart from cause a lot less of us to spend money with QF, is that it may well be that the numbers of QFF members with LTG and substantial SC balances north of say 25k are enough to give them pause.

Really though I think the maginal cost may NOT be that much relatively speaking, but QFF simply feel that the only real outcomes for them would be increased cost from LTP's using partner F lounges and associated benefits possibly while putting revenue to other carriers (like CX or AY) but could well still fly QF and give revenue, but perhaps not as much as before... and QFF probably think, as discussed earlier, there's no real NEED to give this sort of benefit. There's no pressure from VA in this space, and the likely outcomes are unlikely to be strongly revenue positive for the carrier, so why do it except to make us happy?! Of course not, they're not here to do that!

 

[Mrmaxwell]

However in a capitalist system isn't this the aim of every business - captute the biggest market share and keep them for as much revenue as possible?

Yes and QF have captured the biggest market share, and by keeping PAX striving for WP and not handing it to them for life they are maximising revenue. Sad but true.