RewardPay Alternatives

[travelnutjohn]

So using my back of the napkin analysis

If the majority of customers are using it for amex and rewards points. Post april unless these companies drop their rates by half ish, the huge chunk of revenue will drop , to as low as nothing.
But if amex dont reduce their merchant fees to these providers, then the model is not profitable?
And unfortunately these companies' business model is based on a niche one trick pony, so are at the mercy of rewards points values and merchant fees?

 

[Saltywings]

I am one of the first asking ferni to pm me the method but never got a response. If you know, could you please pm me? Thanks

I literally cannot help even if I wanted to as it's @ferni's gig. They have to sign you up.

 

[ferni]

I don't understand what Amex are up to. Thier merchant fees have come down a little over the years, but still no where near that of Visa/MC. Best gauge is to look at what the ATO charge for CC transactions of each card - that gives you a good idea of the difference between the underlying merchant fees on offer. When Amex reduce thier fee then I suspect you'll see it on the ATO website.

The other thing to keep in mind is that those of us lucky enough to be earning 2 Airline Miles Per Dollar for the last couple of years have been taking advantage of a flaw. Realisitcally the best earn rate we should have been officially been able to earn is 1.5 Airline Miles Per Dollar.

This means Post April 15 that the earn rate is dropping from 1.5PPD on a $400/Y card to a.1.125 on a $1450/Y card. This is a reduction of 0.375PPD or a 25% devaluation in miles per dollar (putting aside the 360% fee increase).

So does that mean we should see a decrease of Amex Merchant fees by 25%? ...

 

[bernardblack]

So using my back of the napkin analysis

If the majority of customers are using it for amex and rewards points. Post april unless these companies drop their rates by half ish, the huge chunk of revenue will drop , to as low as nothing.
But if amex dont reduce their merchant fees to these providers, then the model is not profitable?
And unfortunately these companies' business model is based on a niche one trick pony, so are at the mercy of rewards points values and merchant fees?

Yes, as far as I can tell this is RewardPay's entire business model: return points on high-earn Amexes in return for a merchant fee. If the points return more or less halves without an attendant reduction in the fee, I can't see how the business would continue.

 

[travelnutjohn]

I don't understand what Amex are up to. Thier merchant fees have come down a little over the years, but still no where near that of Visa/MC. Best gauge is to look at what the ATO charge for CC transactions of each card - that gives you a good idea of the difference between the underlying merchant fees on offer. When Amex reduce thier fee then I suspect you'll see it on the ATO website.

The other thing to keep in mind is that those of us lucky enough to be earning 2 Airline Miles Per Dollar for the last couple of years have been taking advantage of a flaw. Realisitcally the best earn rate we should have been officially been able to earn is 1.5 Airline Miles Per Dollar.

This means Post April 15 that the earn rate is dropping from 1.5PPD on a $400/Y card to a.1.125 on a $1450/Y card. This is a reduction of 0.375PPD or a 25% devaluation in miles per dollar (putting aside the 360% fee increase).

So does that mean we should see a decrease of Amex Merchant fees by 25%? ...

Amex are gloating now that their acceptance is much greater and their fees are reduced due to the regulation change.

However to me they seem like they are preaching to be the same as visa but still charging more than visa in merchant fees while still being a premium membership for consumers 、so they are having their cake and eat it.

Not sure why they would reduce their fees for companies such as reward pay

 

[travelnutjohn]

I don't understand what Amex are up to. Thier merchant fees have come down a little over the years, but still no where near that of Visa/MC. Best gauge is to look at what the ATO charge for CC transactions of each card - that gives you a good idea of the difference between the underlying merchant fees on offer. When Amex reduce thier fee then I suspect you'll see it on the ATO website.

The other thing to keep in mind is that those of us lucky enough to be earning 2 Airline Miles Per Dollar for the last couple of years have been taking advantage of a flaw. Realisitcally the best earn rate we should have been officially been able to earn is 1.5 Airline Miles Per Dollar.

This means Post April 15 that the earn rate is dropping from 1.5PPD on a $400/Y card to a.1.125 on a $1450/Y card. This is a reduction of 0.375PPD or a 25% devaluation in miles per dollar (putting aside the 360% fee increase).

So does that mean we should see a decrease of Amex Merchant fees by 25%? ...

How do you see 2 ppd as a flaw?

 

[albyd]

We were meant to earn Gateway points which convert to FF points at 0.75:1 but have been earning Ascent + points which have converted at 1:1. Been good while it’s lasted.

 

[ferni]

How do you see 2 ppd as a flaw?

I'm talking airline miles per dollar. Officially Explorer earns 1.5 Airline miles per dollar. It's only when you link it to Ascent or Ascent Prem that it turns into 2 Airline miles per dollar - you were never officially supposed to be able to do this....

 

[travelnutjohn]

I'm talking airline miles per dollar. Officially Explorer earns 1.5 Airline miles per dollar. It's only when you link it to Ascent or Ascent Prem that it turns into 2 Airline miles per dollar - you were never officially supposed to be able to do this....

ahhh yes, however, I wouldnt be surprised that the nunber of people with the time/knowledge/experitse who have linked their programs is a very small portion of the Amex customer numbers

 

[ferni]

ahhh yes, however, I wouldnt be surprised that the nunber of people with the time/knowledge/experitse who have linked their programs is a very small portion of the Amex customer numbers

That's my point, offically they have only devalued thier earn rate by 25% (Explorer 1.5PPD -> Charge 1.125PPD) or 33% (Explorer 1.5PPD -> Explorer 1PPD)

 

[travelnutjohn]

That's my point, offically they have only devalued thier earn rate by 25% (Explorer 1.5PPD -> Charge 1.125PPD) or 33% (Explorer 1.5PPD -> Explorer 1PPD)

i think its a bit unfair to analyse deval based on going from exp to charge,

but exp 1.5 to 1 ppd I agree

 

[ChrisFlyer]

I recently had a whinge to RewardPay about their fee to ask what they were going to do from next month, when the points people can earn are decreased. They hinted I should check back with them next month: hope that's a hint of positive news to come!

 

[kyanar]

So does that mean we should see a decrease of Amex Merchant fees by 25%? ...

Most of us are only paying 1.5% on Amex these days - long gone are the days when 2.7% was Amex's fees and you liked it or lumped it. I'm surprised it's only a 25% devaluation given that Amex's merchant revenue has been reduced by far more than 25%.

Also, 2.64% is a bit ridiculous - Amex will let you do it for the straight 2.4% using Amex FX International Payments with AccessLine enabled on your account, reducing to 2.14% as of the Great Devaluation. And that's not plus GST, that's including or exempt. They can also do Forex at 1MR per $30 AUD converted (doubling to 1MR per $15 AUD converted as of the Devaluation). Plus 100,000 bonus points if you send $100,000 AUD, but I doubt anyone here will benefit from that.

 

[ninja-tim]

Any news on the updated rates?

Have sent through an email to them but no reply yet.

 

[amaroo]

They'll be hedging their bets to see how many numb-nuts will blindly carry on with business as usual. Don't expect we'll see a reaction until they've analysed the numbers on the numb-nuts.

Until there is a substantial reduction - they've lost my 7 figure / pa spend.

 

[daft009]

Until there is a substantial reduction - they've lost my 7 figure / pa spend.

I really need to change my mindset post 15/04.
For the last 2.5yrs its been how to earn points for every $ that I spend..
doing EFT for a few of these transactions its making me feel uneasy I'm going to be having some big withdrawal symptoms

 

[daft009]

@amaroo its not funny. i feel like I have my first ever addiction, like gambling or drugs or alcohol or something..

 

[amaroo]

I really need to change my mindset post 15/04.
For the last 2.5yrs its been how to earn points for every $ that I spend..
doing EFT for a few of these transactions its making me feel uneasy I'm going to be having some big withdrawal symptoms

I don't want to know how much I've spent manufacturing points. However, we've already burnt many millions and have even more of them stashed away in QF, KF, and Amex that will see us sorted for many many years to come.

I'll direct that cash towards revenue flights therefore, maintaining high status which will assist in burning all those points.

TBH I'm not going to miss it ..... going back to bank transfers is going to be a relief.

 

[daft009]

TBH I'm not going to miss it ..... going back to bank transfers is going to be a relief.

This is what I have keep telling myself as well

 

[mrtupperware]

Payment Logic sent an update about their reduced rates today. 1.99-2.15% (ex. GST) on payments up to $499k. Even less if you want to pay $2m (I dont know anyone that can pay $2m on their charge card, not even Centurion holders)