Rewards booking codes for VA?

[Moopere]

Just got off the phone with a really good Amex CSR who seemed to actually know something about these free flights. Very interesting conversation in general, but for this thread, heres some good stuff:

For the Velocity Amex and Platinum Edge, the flights book as Savers. Its probably the same for other Amex branded cards offering free flights, but I didn't specifically address them so YMMV. We all knew this in any event. But what was news to me was:

R class is used for flights booked for less than 21 days in the future. Amex has a limited allocation, so simply seeing R class availability on Expertflyer doesn't guarantee a booking via the Amex "free flight" can actually be made, but its a good indicator nevertheless (I specifically asked about this).

If the booking is further out than 21d then T, A, U and X classes also become available. Same caveat as before, seeing availability on EF doesn't lead to automatic Amex availability, they have a limited allocation via their contracted rate.

This partially answers a question I've pondered for a while. The Amex Velocity and Platinum Edge are not booking into "redemption" style fares, they are standard fare buckets but contract rate. This would be why the T, A, U, X & R classes feature in the standard deep discount VA list of buckets.

 

[Moopere]

Given the positive phone call above, next step was to wander off to EF and see what flights might be available. Rang Amex Travel back, now booked PER-SYD return into X and T class on the 'free flight' from an Amex Velocity Plat card.

EDIT: Whats also interesting is that the flight out is booked against X class even though EF is showing 7+ availability in both R & T. One wonders if this is revenue based as has been surmised in previous posts. If we are right to assume that of the available booking classes, T A U X & R (in revenue order? Highest to lowest?), then even though these are apparently contract rates to Amex (whatever that really means), then presumably X would be the cheapest fare for them to book me in to.... if we further assume that R is reserved for very short notice bookings as was alluded to by the CSR I spoke to in the post above this one.

 

[Moopere]

Previously in this thread we saw evidence of EF with the "no interlining" check box ticked showing "Q" class, which appears to be used for upgrades to business.

I don't know whether I just started to notice, but this morning I am seeing Q class on EF for non direct flights:

J4 W7 O7 Q7 H0 Y7 I7 D7 N7 B7 M7 S7 T7 A7 U7 X7 R0 F0 L7 P7 C7 E0


This is a PER-SYD via MEL snippet. PER-SYD direct is not showing Q.


EDIT: What else is interesting about the above is that the flight is listed on EF as a 73H, so, presumably 8 seats in J. H=0 looks like all the redemption seats are gone as only 4 are usually allocated, this leaves 4 seats of full fare (or upgrades???), but its interesting that W, O and Q = 7 .....

What does this imply? Error in GDS reported seats? Error at EF? If they sell W or O or Q seating that they might boot a redemption booking?

 

[dandandan]

Given the positive phone call above, next step was to wander off to EF and see what flights might be available. Rang Amex Travel back, now booked PER-SYD return into X and T class on the 'free flight' from an Amex Velocity Plat card.

Amazing you how can do PER-SYD and not SYD-PER. I am SYD based with this card.

 

[Moopere]

Yes, this has been noted for a while. The supposition is that PER folks get an extra special deal here as there is nowhere else for Amex to send you on your free flight

I have noticed that as each new product (card) is released that the choice of destinations gets worse and worse though. The Plat Edge gave me choices from PER of BME, BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL and a heap of regionals. Fast forward to the Velocity Plat and I can go BME, ADL or SYD and some WA regionals. I'd have thought it just as easy to send me PER-MEL as it would be to send me PER-SYD, but no MEL destination for me apparently....

 

[Moopere]

Oh, and to add another data point. Booking PER-SYD Flexi, then upgraded to Business gives this:


var fareFamily = 'Q,Q';

(as displayed using the method here: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....booking-codes-for-dj-35665-10.html#post587011 by jneufeld)

So, Q class in both directions as had also been documented previously in this thread. H class availability dropped by one in both cases, J, W and O classes all remained at 7 (A330)

 

[Moopere]

June Update

From Virgins Site:

S, T, A, U, X, R, F = Discount Economy - "Saver" fares (probably in revenue order, so, S most expensive, F cheapest)
Y, N, B, M = Full Fare Economy (Flexi)
W = Premium Economy (Possibly Long Haul International PE translates into W for Domestic or Short Haul ... W seems to come from Business Class stock)
J = Business


AFF deduction, certainly open to review:

O = Discount Business

H = Velocity rewards Business (might also be indicative of Q availability - see Q at the bottom of the list)

I = Economy (?? probably) reward or other non earning fare (Really unsure, some sort of Y fare that involves airline goodwill or last minute changes????)

D = Whole of Australian Government (WOAG) contract fare. Economy, Flexi (food+bags) + lounge access + Priority Checkin. Earns SC but not FF points

L = Economy (?? probably) reward or other non earning fare

P = Discount Economy Flex, most likely rewards or non earning related (or it would be in the discount economy listing from DJ at the top of this post)

C = Discount Y, codeshare bucket. Listed by DL and SQ as 50% earning Discount Y

E = Listed by DL and SQ as 50% earning Discount Y ... more data required .. if it were standard cash discount Y then it should be in DJ's list of discount Y. If it were straight rewards its unlikely to generate earn via partners.

Q = Points Upgrade or Comp (status) upgrade to Business (so, Economy Flexi full paid fare to Business, via points upgrade or via Platinum complimentary upgrade)


Standard Codes that get used in interesting ways:

R = Discount Economy. Amex uses a sub allocation of R class for its credit card free flights. R class is used for flights booked less than 21 days ahead. R needs to be available to book a free flight in the 21 day window, however, simply having R class availability doesn't guarantee that Amex's allocation hasn't already been used up.

T, A, U, X = Discount Economy, probably in revenue order (T = highest cost, X lowest cost). These 4 classes are used by Amex to book credit card based free flights when the date of travel is 21 days or more in the future. As with R above, availability in these classes doesn't guarantee Amex can book you as there is a limited Amex allocation.

 

[Jama]

I thought the concensus was that the Amex flights dont earn SC's. However ALL of the fare classes that Amex use are SC earning fares ? Am I missing something ?

 

[Moopere]

I thought the concensus was that the Amex flights dont earn SC's. However ALL of the fare classes that Amex use are SC earning fares ? Am I missing something ?

Yes, this made me scratch my chin too. Smelled a rat right away. However there is evidence from people who have redeemed the free flight that indeed, the flights, despite using 'earning' bucket classes are "not eligible for earn"

I suspect the answer is that the Amex free flights are bought on contracted rates, not publicly available to you and I. Despite the buckets being standard the terms of sale are hidden from us. Perhaps they _do_ earn, but you and I don't see the earn, its retained (or exchanged??) by Amex at the back end to save them some money? Who really knows?

Having said all this though, you may find this thread interesting: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....x-free-flight-upgrade-34297-3.html#post612538

 

[Jama]

The fine print from Virgin to us as status members says certain classes earn SC's, if we have a fare in one of those classes I can't see how it can not be honoured. The only exception listed is for T, Q, V on Singapore Airlines. There are no other exceptions.

 

[Moopere]

The fine print from Virgin to us as status members says certain classes earn SC's, if we have a fare in one of those classes I can't see how it can not be honoured. The only exception listed is for T, Q, V on Singapore Airlines. There are no other exceptions.

Yes, indeed. One wonders if there is subtlety in the tickets being first sold to Amex and then essentially resold to us from Amex. Amex T&C, which I assume are the binding ones given our contract of sale is with Amex and not DJ does clearly state that these flights have no earn.

I don't really know, but agree it seems misleading on first glance.

 

[jeffyg]

June Update



AFF deduction, certainly open to review:

L = Economy (?? probably) reward or other non earning fare

I flew on a ticket yesterday that was L class.

It was booked and ticketed through Singapore Airlines using Krisflyer miles.

A couple of things I found interesting:

-baggage allowance was included at time of booking

-my wife and and I made separate bookings with SQ that we then linked through Velocity. When checking in on my phone, it showed us being allocated D and F, with the middle seat taken. However online check in would not function beyond this screen due to the 'booking agent'. Upon checking in at the airport, I asked about the allocated seat between us and was told that it was definitely allocated but she couldn't see to whom. We were travelling with an infant, and it seems it may have been pre blocked for him, as no one else turned up. (nearly every other seat on board was taken too!!)

-Flexi fare benefits were provided on board

-At check in, my wife was told that "your points have been credited". She didn't know what this meant, and I was returning the rental car, so will see if we get velocity points and status credits for the flight

 

[Moopere]

Thanks for the report. Be quite interested to see if you get credited any FF or SC's - please return back once you know and I'll update our 'known' table accordingly.

 

[jeffyg]

No FF points or SC's for this flight, unfortunately.

Still, inclusion of baggage, meals, drinks etc was a pleasant surprise.

And, due to the SQ connection, there must be some incentive to look after L class passengers, hence the seat being blocked out between us for our infant... always nicer than having him on our laps!

 

[jjsyd]

Another data point for codeshare reservations:

Booked on VS BNE-SYD-HKG-SYD in Premium Economy (SYD-HKG-SYD only).

VS Fare: Premium Economy - KLAUHKSL
VS Book Code: M
DJ Book Code: C

Interstingly, because I'm on a 'codeshare' reservation the call centre can't allocate a seat?!? Seems strange but a 10am flight on a Tuesday from BNE-SYD somehow I think I will have good chances of getting something acceptable!

 

[Moopere]

August Update

From Virgins Site:

S, T, A, U, X, R, F = Discount Economy - "Saver" fares (probably in revenue order, so, S most expensive, F cheapest)
Y, N, B, M = Full Fare Economy (Flexi)
W = Premium Economy (Possibly Long Haul International PE translates into W for Domestic or Short Haul ... W seems to come from Business Class stock)
J = Business


AFF deduction, certainly open to review:

O = Discount Business

H = Velocity rewards Business (might also be indicative of Q availability - see Q at the bottom of the list)

I = Economy (?? probably) reward or other non earning fare (Really unsure, some sort of Y fare that involves airline goodwill or last minute changes????)

D = Whole of Australian Government (WOAG) contract fare. Economy, Flexi (food+bags) + lounge access + Priority Checkin. Earns SC but not FF points

L = Economy partner award fare when ticketed via the partner airline (example is SQ / Krisflyer). Provides Flexi benefits on board - food and drinks, standard baggage also included.

P = Discount Economy Flex, most likely rewards or non earning related (or it would be in the discount economy listing from DJ at the top of this post)

C = Discount Y, codeshare bucket. Listed by DL and SQ as 50% earning Discount Y

E = Listed by DL and SQ as 50% earning Discount Y ... more data required .. if it were standard cash discount Y then it should be in DJ's list of discount Y. If it were straight rewards its unlikely to generate earn via partners.

Q = Points Upgrade or Comp (status) upgrade to Business (so, Economy Flexi full paid fare to Business, via points upgrade or via Platinum complimentary upgrade)


Standard Codes that get used in interesting ways:

R = Discount Economy. Amex uses a sub allocation of R class for its credit card free flights. R class is used for flights booked less than 21 days ahead. R needs to be available to book a free flight in the 21 day window, however, simply having R class availability doesn't guarantee that Amex's allocation hasn't already been used up.

T, A, U, X = Discount Economy, probably in revenue order (T = highest cost, X lowest cost). These 4 classes are used by Amex to book credit card based free flights when the date of travel is 21 days or more in the future. As with R above, availability in these classes doesn't guarantee Amex can book you as there is a limited Amex allocation.

 

[Moopere]

Another data point for codeshare reservations:

Booked on VS BNE-SYD-HKG-SYD in Premium Economy (SYD-HKG-SYD only).

VS Fare: Premium Economy - KLAUHKSL
VS Book Code: M
DJ Book Code: C

Hmm. I don't know what to make of this. "KLAUHKSL" is presumably the fare basis (or is it the PNR?), yet the booking code is M, which is a bit unusual. Empirical evidence previously suggested that DJ's C class was some sort of deep discount Y as it only earned FF at 50%, but I certainly wouldn't expect a PE seat to earn at such a low level, if anything I'd expect 125% or even 150%.

I'll search around on DJ's partner sites over the next little bit to see if I can find any clarity on what might be going on.

 

[jjsyd]

Hmm. I don't know what to make of this. "KLAUHKSL" is presumably the fare basis (or is it the PNR?), yet the booking code is M, which is a bit unusual. Empirical evidence previously suggested that DJ's C class was some sort of deep discount Y as it only earned FF at 50%, but I certainly wouldn't expect a PE seat to earn at such a low level, if anything I'd expect 125% or even 150%.

I'll search around on DJ's partner sites over the next little bit to see if I can find any clarity on what might be going on.

Yeah, it's the fare basis. I was expecting it to book into full Y (or a much higher bucket) for the domestic connection on a PE fare. This is the info I have on the booking classes for that fare:

A/L BKG CODE RESTRICTIONS
VS N REQUIRED WHN AVAILABLE WITHIN AUSTRALIA
VS M REQUIRED WITHIN AUSTRALIA
DJ E REQUIRED WHN AVAILABLE
DJ C REQUIRED

Looks like the reason I was booked on VS 'M' class is that 'N' class was sold out.
[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.3/Diamond - Sabre: Availability/FS/US]
BNE Brisbane Intl QL AU [YBBN]
SYD Sydney Kingsford Smith NS AU [YSSY]
TUE 21 Aug 2012
Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------
VS/DJ 5934 BNE 09:30 SYD 11:05 E90 Z0 Y4 M4 N4
VS/DJ 5938 BNE 10:00 SYD 11:35 E90 Z0 Y7 M7 N0


From looking at the above and the availablity of those flights VS N class = DJ E class (available on the 9:30 not 10am) and VS M class = DJ C class. (available on both flights).

 

[Moopere]

August Update #2

From Virgins Site:

S, T, A, U, X, R, F = Discount Economy - "Saver" fares (probably in revenue order, so, S most expensive, F cheapest)
Y, N, B, M = Full Fare Economy (Flexi)
W = Premium Economy (Possibly Long Haul International PE translates into W for Domestic or Short Haul ... W seems to come from Business Class stock)
J = Business


AFF deduction, certainly open to review:

O = Discount Business

H = Velocity rewards Business (might also be indicative of Q availability - see Q at the bottom of the list)

I = Economy (?? probably) reward or other non earning fare (Really unsure, some sort of Y fare that involves airline goodwill or last minute changes????)

D = Whole of Australian Government (WOAG) contract fare. Economy, Flexi (food+bags) + lounge access + Priority Checkin. Earns SC but not FF points

L = Economy partner fare (including partner award fare), when ticketed via the partner airline (example is SQ / Krisflyer, also seen VA revenue fares selling into DJ codeshares on this booking code). Provides Flexi benefits on board - food and drinks, standard baggage also included.

P = Discount Economy Flex, most likely rewards or non earning related (or it would be in the discount economy listing from DJ at the top of this post)

C = Discount Y, codeshare bucket. Listed by DL and SQ as 50% earning Discount Y

E = Listed by DL and SQ as 50% earning Discount Y ... more data required .. if it were standard cash discount Y then it should be in DJ's list of discount Y. If it were straight rewards its unlikely to generate earn via partners.

Q = Points Upgrade or Comp (status) upgrade to Business (so, Economy Flexi full paid fare to Business, via points upgrade or via Platinum complimentary upgrade)


Standard Codes that get used in interesting ways:

R = Discount Economy. Amex uses a sub allocation of R class for its credit card free flights. R class is used for flights booked less than 21 days ahead. R needs to be available to book a free flight in the 21 day window, however, simply having R class availability doesn't guarantee that Amex's allocation hasn't already been used up.

T, A, U, X = Discount Economy, probably in revenue order (T = highest cost, X lowest cost). These 4 classes are used by Amex to book credit card based free flights when the date of travel is 21 days or more in the future. As with R above, availability in these classes doesn't guarantee Amex can book you as there is a limited Amex allocation.



Change from previous update:

- More detail on DJ's L class, its not only an award fare
​

 

[significance]

Another piece of info:
"I" is the whole of government (WOAG) fully flexible economy fare, including lounge access, food & drink & entertainment.