Ripped off by Qantas holiday advertising

[Youfah Mizzum]

Check out this attachment.
It clearly advertises holidays to the UK and get double QFF points! What a great offer, so I booked and had my nice holiday last July/Aug.

I am still waiting for the double points.
I have phoned Qantas heaps of times & have been fobbed off, transferred & dismissed.

So I finally wrote a letter & got an answer.
Basically the double points are not flight (or mileage) points but "booking" points, whatever that means! This is NOT made clear in any part of their advertising & they even admitted that! The dbl points are points earned in a similar fashion as if I booked a hotel or hired a car & got dbl points for those.

So now I have gone to the ACCC, but it doesn't look like they are going to get me my points which I reckon I deserve. They reckon it is too old to get Qantas to act on anything. All they might be able to do is get Qantas to make their advertising clearer.

Can someone here suggest how I might get Qantas to award me the doubled points as their advertising clearly says?

thx

 

[Dave Noble]

It does seem in the advert that they were offering double miles

If it was me, I would try taking them to the small claims court for $400. Valued at 2c a point , would be reasonable

Having a copy of the advert to adduce, then I would think that a small claim would be worthwhile especially if the ACCC have agreed that it is misleading

Dave

 

[Baysider]

Well, it pretty clearly says "Earn double Qantas Frequent Flyer points to UK & Europe until 29 December 2006!" and the fine print says "Bonus points offer valid for air and land bookings made by December 29, 2006". I would like to see how they explain those terms away as meaning something else !!

 

[acampbel]

I had something similar happen a couple of years back. I booked some car hire with Qantas on the basis of an early bird upgrade offer - getting a D car for the C rate ..... or so I thought. It wasn't until much later that I worked out I had been charged the D rate anyway.

When I complained they said that the rate had been already "adjusted" in the brochure to show the C rates in the D column, so the price I had used for comparison against every other car hire firm was in fact the B rate. I wrote a letter pointing out that this pre-adjustment was akin to saying "25% off" on a range of goods but then charging the ticketed price with the excuse that it had already been factored in. Qantas didn't deign to reply to my letter.

I'm sure that if it was a normal retailer the ACCC would have happily had them for dinner, but travellers seem to garner less sympathy.

Cheers,

Andrew

.

 

[wallacej]

It is so clear that the ad is for air and land travel, I don't understand how they can not.

I agree with the above, simply lodge with small claims court, I think there is a nominal fee for this, which you would also ad to your claim.

So if the fee is say $50, plus any other phone/postage/fax costs you may have incurred in pursuing this with QANTAS, simply add this to the amount of your claim. IE.. $400 (taking the 2c p/mile) + your costs.

This is the only way they will know you are serious, and they can not ignore it. They will need to send a representative to attend... I would waste no more time on it, and proceed NOW. At the moment the time that has passed you can put down to being a reasonable person, and giving QANTAS the opportunity to make good, however, that time is now passed, and it is clea they need a little push...

 

[Travel Guru]

The issue you've got (and I do agree it's misleading) is that Qantas doesn't own Qantas Holidays, and would explain why you're getting no love from Qantas itself.

Its no different to if a card promised you 5000 points per dollar, it's not Qantas' obligation to make sure the points are paid for and then credited, its the company making the offer to you, whether they bare a similarity in name or not.

You need to pursue Qantas Holidays direct as they're the one advertising the misleading offer.

Small Claims court seems like a good idea, but if you pursue Qantas instead of Qantas Holidays, i'd suggest its just going to get thrown out of court.

TG

 

[Dave Noble]

Small Claims court seems like a good idea, but if you pursue Qantas instead of Qantas Holidays, i'd suggest its just going to get thrown out of court.

TG

Yah. I would agree here. The company that failed to provide the service needs to be taken to court or they will have an instant success and you'll have to start again

Given the advert, I think that there would be a good chance of success based on my experiences using the Small Claims Track of the County Courts in the UK.. ( of course Oz courts may be different , but I doubt that they are hugely different )

Dave

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

Hey all,

Thanks for those responses. Looks like I'll be going to the samll claims tribunal & see what gives from that avenue.
Using the suggestions to pursue Qantas Holidays, I'll try that first, but when I have been on the phone to them, they redirect me to the Frequent Flyers department, then the FF dept say it's not their problem, it is Qantas Holidays & the merry go round continues.

If the tribunal costs $400 and I am successful, the points I would've been awarded would be about 21,000. That would cover say a 1 way flight to Auckland with some change of about 3000 points. I see it as paying $400 to get a 1 way flight to NZ. Not sure it's really worth it unless Qantas are also forced to pay my expenses at the tribunal.

cheers

 

[serfty]

OK, I think I know what the problem is - and it's not the best news for the OP.:-|

When booking with Qantas Holidays, one gets "1 point per A$1 spent".

More here:

• Earning Points - Qantas Holidays

It's these points where the bonus was to be doubled.

Look at the banner advertising double points:

Earn double Qantas Frequent Flyer points to UK & Europe
until 29 December 2006!​

Yet you travelled on this booking in July/August 2007:

... so I booked and had my nice holiday last July/Aug. ...

To imply you get double points for your air travel, with this you would have needed to travel before 29th Dec 2006, which was not the case.

I would not take this to small claims. If you booked before 29th December 2006 you should try to get the double points for the price you paid for the bookings. If you booked after, go for the 1 point per $ ...

 

[lovetravellingoz]

OK, I think I know what the problem is - and it's not the best news for the OP.:-|



Look at the banner advertising double points:Yet you travelled on this booking in July/August 2007:

...

No...I would disagree...

1/ The offer was issed on 15 Oct 2006
2/ The offer states "

Bonus points offer valid for air and land bookings made by December 29, 2006" ie that is bookings made and not when the flights or land content was taken.​

3/ And this is the clincher....the only flights listed are all for 2007 or 2008 flights. There were no 2006 flights on the PDF.


So the offer is for flights to be made in 2007.

So this cannot be used to dispute the claim.​

​

 

[chrisb]

Che
So I finally wrote a letter & got an answer.
Basically the double points are not flight (or mileage) points but "booking" points, whatever that means!

Qantas Holidays (Directly) pays 1 point per dollar spent with them if you supply THEM with a FF number - This is different to your Qantas FLIGHT based FF miles. I assume that is what they are doubling.

You'd also get normal flight based FF miles.

It's confusing because of the branding with Qantas. If this same offer was made by "Flight Centre" or "Harvey World Travel" it would probably be less confusing.

Chrisb.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

However against the OP I would note the disclaimer at the base of the PDF, and that the PDF is not actually an ad but rather is an explantory document for travel agents and not customers.

Issued by Marketing: 15 Oct 2006.​

This information is for internal use only by authorised AFTA and Licensed Travel Agents selling Qantas​

Holidays.​

So QH could argue that it's travel agents would know that the bonus points would only apply to the $$ value.

ie the point made by serfty would apply (see his link).​

The OP would need to find the original ad that he acted upon and see if it is misleading, or being able to prove that this was the only material that he acted upon.

It may well be that the OP saw double points in the original ad (as the PDF is not an ad, and states that is for travel agents only)....and jumped to the wrong conclusion.​

 

[Dave Noble]

Hey all,

If the tribunal costs $400 and I am successful, the points I would've been awarded would be about 21,000. That would cover say a 1 way flight to Auckland with some change of about 3000 points. I see it as paying $400 to get a 1 way flight to NZ. Not sure it's really worth it unless Qantas are also forced to pay my expenses at the tribunal.

cheers

I would suggest a call o check, but the fees for going to a small claims is not likely to be at the $400 level. The Small Claims system is designed to be a reasonably priced system for dealing with small amounts

If you win, of course, you will get the costs added to the claim so you will not be out of pocket

I think that the big problem on claiming flight miles is that , as mentioned, it says double points until december 2006 but you didn't travel until 2007

Dave

Dave

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Check out this attachment.
It clearly advertises holidays to the UK and get double QFF points! What a great offer, so I booked and had my nice holiday last July/Aug.

I am still waiting for the double points.

1/ Out of interest were you awarded double points on the $$ value of the air and land content at the time of booking.

If not then you would at least have a valid cliam for this.

2/ If they were awarded at the time of booking (or at least the next cycle, say in Nov-Feb period) what did you think the "extra" points were for?

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

Thanks again for the extra info.

I still think my claim is more than valid. I paid for the flights BEFORE the 29th Dec 06. It has nothing to do with actually flying before that date.

There is NO CLEAR DISTINCTION between "booking points" and mileage points anywhere which a dumb layman who rarely flys would recognise. I only earn points by credit card usage & the odd hotel booking here & there. I fly maybe once every 10 years!! True!

The PDF originally posted was indeed a PDF from a travel agent.

I do however have a hardcopy 2 page advertising flyer for the public. It's smallprint is identical. I should scan it and attach also...maybe later!

I have perused the legal websites for NSW and it seems it might be best to get some quick freebie legal advice first, then submit a claim under Corporations Law - Misleading & Deceptive Conduct.

cheers

 

[Anna]

Yes, definitely get some legal advice. Misleading and deceptive conduct isn't regulated by the Corporations Act, it is regulated by the federal Trade Practices Act - section 52, or the NSW Fair Trading Act - section 42 (and other legislation in some other states).

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

In reply to lovetravellingoz, the points were awarded AFTER the return flight had been completed, i.e well beyond Aug 07. I think after my complaining to Qantas that the double points were awarded in Oct last year.

Those double points WERE NOT the mileage points which I thought I would get, but the booking points. The distinction I had no idea about, no knowledge of, or no fineprint on the brochure to explain. This is my beef.

I thought the points were for the mileage to the UK. That, to me, is pretty clearly stated on the brochure, after all what is the average person thinking frequent flyer points are if not points for flying? A return to London gets me 21,172 points but this promotion should've got me 42,344.

Incidentally I have scanned the brochure but its 13Mb & the forum doesn't allow me to post that large a file. Zipping doesn't compress much.

It clearly states that "valid for departures 1 April 2007 - 2 Decemder 2007" and the booking in full must be paid by 29 Dec 2006.
Those conditions were met.

 

[Dave Noble]

I think you do have a reasonably arguable case and a misleading advert has, in my personal experience, been the basis to win a small claim against a company, I would say that it is worth pursuing. There is a risk that you could end up out of pocket by a small amount, but thats just life

Dave

 

[moa999]

Unsure of your state but for NSW
Consumer, Trader & Tenancy Tribunal: Homepage
Thinks its $32 for an application in the general division for <$10,000

 

[Petch]

Unsure of your state but for NSW

Consumer, Trader & Tenancy Tribunal: Homepage

OK, I'll wade in. Do not bother with this tribunal, it is a farce! The only purpose I think it serves, is to create jobs/work for public servants and drain the state of money. And soak up your time.

I would suggest Dave Noble's advice, about small claims, is reasonable; if you are very disgruntled.

It is a simple process; in NSW you make an appointment to see the registrar at the nearest applicable court. When you meet, you will discuss the situation, show documentation of the advert, explain what you have done up until now to seek a resolution, and if the registrar thinks the case may be valid, they will issue a (un/)liquidated claim against Qantas Holidays, assuming QH is the correct entity. (Hence other posts discussing who is accountable for the ad you found misleading & a dollar ("liquidated") value for frequent flyer points.) When dealing with a registrar, be very clear, have all the fact & documentation available and respect their opinion! (But be firm/resolute that you want to proceed.)

If a statement of claim is issued, you need to deliver it to Qantas Holidays, you do this by looking up their legal corporate address in the ASIC database prior to meeting the registrar, the cost of doing this can be added to the claim. (Of course, on receiving this statement of claim, Qantas Holidays could decide to defend its position, and then you end up in proper small claims court.)

However, I would try one last letter to Qantas Holiday, explaining that if you do not get a satisfactory resolution (be specific about what you want), you will proceed to make a claim against them.