Scoot Cancelled Flight SYD-SIN

[markis10]

Scoot has cut back from daily to 6x weekly on SYD-SIN for 4 weeks in May - service reduction went thru the GDS about 2 weeks ago. Imagine there will be quite a few people being rebooked onto suitable alternative flights.

I find it interesting that the OPs dates are not part of the original service reduction, which is a tale in itself, route under performing?

 

[fersea]

Yes, whilst the OPs situation is interesting and let's hope that people on here can provide some help, the more interesting story is that Scoot are reducing their number of flights.

This is a great shame. LCC promote competition and I couldn't fault Scoot when I flew them last year. The problem is it becomes a domino effect. Stories like this make it less likely people will choose Scoot in the future therefore they will further dilute their service and so on.

 

[eastwest101]

Yes, whilst the OPs situation is interesting and let's hope that people on here can provide some help, the more interesting story is that Scoot are reducing their number of flights.

This is a great shame. LCC promote competition and I couldn't fault Scoot when I flew them last year. The problem is it becomes a domino effect. Stories like this make it less likely people will choose Scoot in the future therefore they will further dilute their service and so on.

Ye - its been an interesting thread from a number of perspectives. We found out numerous things on the thread. I think that old addage of "caveat emptor" is applicable to booking LCC fares (especially complicated and connecting LCC fares) and if you really want to definately travel from A to B, or do any connections at all, on a set date and time you are probably safer with non-LCC services, unless of course you are flexible with your travel plans.

To give Scoot some credit - at least they did tell the OP about the cancelled service and gave them time to react and re-plan their travel, as others have said - finding out on the day of travel has been a sure fire recepie for disastrous PR and social media flak that can affect an airline in a negative way.

We have also seen the consumer protection that the OP has - thanks to MEL_Traveller comments about regardless of whatever T&Cs are on an airline ticket, the consumer law of the land must still be obeyed and the OP is entitled to a "reasonable alternative" flight or a full cash refund if the change is "unreasonable". Many airlines will "forget" to tell you that.

I know that I, and probably the OP have found out many things from this thread and hope the OP does come back to us with an update of their experiences and the course of action that they took.

We are also seeing up to at least 40% price differences in ticket prices (depending on where the ticket is purchased) for the exact same product due to competition effects, exchange rates and different market economics (prices being what the market will bear - not market value). This factor alone is important because it affects the viability of the whole LCC business model and also the whole idea of "yield management" and airline pricing globally (for LCCs and Full Service carriers).

 

[oz_mark]

We are also seeing up to at least 40% price differences in ticket prices (depending on where the ticket is purchased) for the exact same product due to competition effects, exchange rates and different market economics (prices being what the market will bear - not market value).

In the case of fares bought in Brazil, it is due to local regulations that prevent the application of fuel surcharges.

 

[elbarto]

Has anyone had experience with travelling on these Expedia brazil fares? If there's no fuel surcharge charged at the time of booking the you could find yourself with a bill for the difference at checkin.

 

[oz_mark]

Has anyone had experience with travelling on these Expedia brazil fares? If there's no fuel surcharge charged at the time of booking the you could find yourself with a bill for the difference at checkin.

No, they are ticketed by Qantas in Brazil, I can't imagine they could put their hand out for more....

 

[markis10]

Has anyone had experience with travelling on these Expedia brazil fares? If there's no fuel surcharge charged at the time of booking the you could find yourself with a bill for the difference at checkin.

LOL, plenty of people have done it and not one issue, not surprising considering its Qantas that charge your card in the first place.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

yup - I wouldn't even think QF has much of a leg to stand on in terms of collecting an additional charge. I think the CoC (which is pretty much standard across most airlines and borrowed from IATA many moons ago??) says something like 'the airline reserves the right to collect any difference if the fare increases before departure' but even in this case the 'fare' has not increased, only the surcharge has not been collected. And as we all know... the fuel surcharge is NOT part of the fare!!

 

[JohnK]

Who gets to decide/adjudicate on what is the exact definition of "a suitable alternative flight" in this case, the customer or Scoot?

I think it is the customer.

When Qantas changed their schedules recently my QF MEL-SIN flight was brought forward 3 hours which was very unsuitable to me and I asked for a refund and it was given.

That was Qantas and this is Scoot but I do not believe that should make any difference.

 

[burmans]

No, they are ticketed by Qantas in Brazil, I can't imagine they could put their hand out for more....

Yes because that would be illegal. If they sell tickets via a Brazillian sites they are required to comply with the Brazillian laws too. Am really not sure why elbarto thinks they have any reasonable argument that they are exempt from this, i.e. Qantas practice overrides Brazilian law. Seriously, how would you regard it if a foreign carrier tried that on in Australia?

 

[JohnK]

In the case of fares bought in Brazil, it is due to local regulations that prevent the application of fuel surcharges.

I am not entirely convinced that assumption is 100% correct.

Have you tried pricing a QF SIN-SYD return flight from the Brazilian Expedia website?

 

[elbarto]

Yes because that would be illegal. If they sell tickets via a Brazillian sites they are required to comply with the Brazillian laws too. Am really not sure why elbarto thinks they have any reasonable argument that they are exempt from this, i.e. Qantas practice overrides Brazilian law. Seriously, how would you regard it if a foreign carrier tried that on in Australia?

I'm not familiar with Brazilian laws and my partner has mentioned to me about instances where people have been required to pay fuel surcharges at checkin that weren't charged at the time of booking. Wether or not this was some kind of booking error I'm not sure. But if prefer to know that others haven't been stung at checkin, hence my question.

 

[banger2]

What an interesting thread!

As a slight diversion, I often book legacy carriers on 1 way fares. In particular SIN-SYD is a great 1 for me, as Qantas sells economy fare cheap, and its a convenient Asian hub! HKG-SYD is also relatively cheap, but not to the same level as SIN-SYD. Its a shame the other direction for 1 way is the opposite value, ie very poor.

JohnK mentioned Expedia.com.br for this route....I checked it and the Qantas Singapore website. Expedia comes in at approx $678AUD, interestingly, Qantas direct is at approx. $450AUD (which is about the normal fare I pay).

As for the OP original routing, its a shame it didn't work out as it is one of the few LCC-LCC combinations you can actually transit through Singapore with, making it a simpler process from that point of view. I was curious as to the cost / schedule differences between the Scoot/Tiger combo and just using Jetstar from Melbourne to HKG. Interestingly, the Scoot website is still offering SYD-SIN on 30th May for sale...did I miss something in the OP post? Either way, the Scoot / Tiger combo was about $370 on the lowest fare with no extras. But the schedule is terrible, with an 11 hour stopover. Jetstar was $456 (but then would the MEL-SYD flight saving be more than the difference?), but an even more hideous 13 hour overnight stopover! However, with a little bit more coin, if you are a Qantas FF you get points / SC! My curiosity catered to, thought I might as well post the details

Sorry none of the above addressed the OP original question....

 

[eastwest101]

Interestingly, the Scoot website is still offering SYD-SIN on 30th May for sale...did I miss something in the OP post? ..

banger2 makes a very interesting point there, Scoot is still selling seats for flight TZ1 SYD-SIN direct on the 30th May (about AUD$249 on the Scoot.com.au site). If the OP post from bignbeefy is correct and scoot called them saying that the flight is cancelled sort of raises the following questions.

Given that the scoot booking site around the 30th May is still showing 6 services a week between SYD-SIN, how can that be reconciled with what flyingdouble is seeing? If markis10's questions about the route under-performing are correct (and the airfares offered by scoot around that period would suggest that is true), are we just seeing Scoot putting seats on the market, seeing which days fill up, and then moving pax from the lowest loading flights forward or backwards by a day? What are the legal implications of selling a seat for a service destined to be cancelled or re-timed to +/- 48hours?

If so - a demand for full cash refund should be honoured, correct? Obviously this would be unsuitable for people with connections, any important events/meeting to attend, or indeed any "dealbreaking" timing issues.

Are we actually seeing a return to the standby/Laker Long haul LCC economic model?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

banger2 makes a very interesting point there, Scoot is still selling seats for flight TZ1 SYD-SIN direct on the 30th May (about AUD$249 on the Scoot.com.au site). If the OP post from bignbeefy is correct and scoot called them saying that the flight is cancelled sort of raises the following questions.

Given that the scoot booking site around the 30th May is still showing 6 services a week between SYD-SIN, how can that be reconciled with what flyingdouble is seeing? If markis10's questions about the route under-performing are correct (and the airfares offered by scoot around that period would suggest that is true), are we just seeing Scoot putting seats on the market, seeing which days fill up, and then moving pax from the lowest loading flights forward or backwards by a day? What are the legal implications of selling a seat for a service destined to be cancelled or re-timed to +/- 48hours?

If so - a demand for full cash refund should be honoured, correct? Obviously this would be unsuitable for people with connections, any important events/meeting to attend, or indeed any "dealbreaking" timing issues.

Are we actually seeing a return to the standby/Laker Long haul LCC economic model?

I just tried booking as well - I wondered whether it would return an error once you got to a certain stage but I got all the way through to CC details. Not sure what would have happened after that.

The issue of a refund is one of Australian law. Cancelling a flight and not offering another one until 24 hours later is grounds for a refund. No question.

Advertising a service knowing you cannot perform that (if indeed the flight on 30 May is cancelled) is asking for all sorts of other trouble for the airline from regulatory authorities (you can't sell and take money for something you have no intention of being able to honour). In terms of contract law (civil action) a passenger would have additional rights for damages if they relied on an undertaking which the airline stood back and allowed to happen without intervening (classic case of estoppel). In addition to your full refund, I would think this extends to all incidental costs in relation to that booking - throwing open a claim for connecting flights and hotel accommodation based on a direct consequence of that flight.

Some things are generally considered 'outside the control' of an airline (weather) and are within the contract of carriage, other things are within the control but covered by generally accepted norms of air travel (safety, mechanical breakdown etc). Other things are not covered by the CoC... the above (if the flight is cancelled but still selling it) would not.

 

[Awesom Andy]

My information has that 29 May is the one cancelled, not 30 May. I personally can't see them cancelling 2 flights on consecutive days though (apart from IRROPS). However, generally speaking, the March - May period is usually very quiet in Y on this route (except for the Easter school holidays). QF and SQ both had large discounts during these months in previous years, but this year, the discounts we are seeing are massive compared to recent years (for ex-SIN fares, at least).

 

[eastwest101]

Maybe the OP got their dates mixed up in their original post and had their 29th May flight cancelled and Scoot were trying to rebook them onto the 30th? Just a possibility, but would make more sense?

 

[markis10]

My information has that 29 May is the one cancelled, not 30 May. I personally can't see them cancelling 2 flights on consecutive days though (apart from IRROPS). However, generally speaking, the March - May period is usually very quiet in Y on this route (except for the Easter school holidays). QF and SQ both had large discounts during these months in previous years, but this year, the discounts we are seeing are massive compared to recent years (for ex-SIN fares, at least).

Given they are still selling flights on the 30th you make a valid point, if it is in fact true that the 30th may is cancelled, that would make for some interesting legal issues re bait and switch.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Maybe the OP got their dates mixed up in their original post and had their 29th May flight cancelled and Scoot were trying to rebook them onto the 30th? Just a possibility, but would make more sense?

Highly possible. Affected pax were all automatically rebooked onto next day's flight. Pax are only required to contact the airline if this is not suitable.
However, it certainly says something about forward bookings (or the lack of which) if they can simply rebook everyone onto the next flight and still sell heavily discounted tickets on those flights. Of course, May is still some time away, but the first flight cancelled is April 23, which is only 3 weeks away. And also noting that leisure travellers generally don't book at the absolute last minute, I would imagine the load to be rather light.

 

[eastwest101]

Highly possible. Affected pax were all automatically rebooked onto next day's flight. Pax are only required to contact the airline if this is not suitable.
However, it certainly says something about forward bookings (or the lack of which) if they can simply rebook everyone onto the next flight and still sell heavily discounted tickets on those flights. Of course, May is still some time away, but the first flight cancelled is April 23, which is only 3 weeks away. And also noting that leisure travellers generally don't book at the absolute last minute, I would imagine the load to be rather light.

That is what I suspect as well, if forwards bookings are very light (and if some discounting seen by QF and maybe JQ is to be believed) then maybe we are seeing overcapacity or a lack of demand/pull-back in discretionary travel between Aus and SIN?