Seat Pocket Surprise

[JohnK]

You fairly strongly implied that non-western cultures don't have manners in your comment "manners are a western tradition". So no, you didn't use those exact words, but I was paraphrasing what you said.

No I didn't.

Yes it is too much to ask.

Someone keeps reminding me manners are a western tradition. I think he is right.

I think. Not I am sure. Would you like other examples?

Certain people like to walk along the footpath 3-4 abreast and expect you to move off the footpath, negotiate street stalls, traffic and anything else you may find in your way because they feel they are superior to others? Guess what? When I see them and I notice they do not make way for me to go past on the footpath I stand still. Make a stance if you like.

It happens so often one has to make an assumption about feelings of superiority, racism and manners in non western cultures. Correct?

Would you like to hear my airport elevator story and how it took me 15 minutes to get back to departures?

How about my Macau-Hong Kong ferry experience?

How about my hotel lounge experiences anywhere in SE Asia?

How about my daily experience at the breakfast buffet in any hotel in SE Asia where certain people like to push and shove to get at the food even though you were there before them and holding a plate and trying to put food on it.

You see this once and you write it off. You see it twice and you think that can't be right you are mistaken. You then see it so often during the course of the day that you can only make one assumption.

And no I do not care in that they were brought up this way in their culture because they had to fight for everything. Well now they have decided to explore civilised lands they need to learn to behave properly. Agree?

And no, it is not racism. Far from it. Sadly it is reality today and it is only getting worse. I dread some of my holidays. I am supposed to go and relax not see people's digusting behaviour but unless I close my eyes that does not happen.

I am starting to see merit in expensive hotels but that just gets too expensive for the number of nights I am away.

 

[hossein_au]

I didn't want to get involved (again).. As an engineer I agree with what you said about backing up claims.. But, AFF forum is not about ensuring referenced and 100% accurate statements, that's the beauty of being on forums IMO. No one wants to be on a forum which is cough about this kind of thing.

*not meaning to sound rude or anything, but that'll be my last post on this thread, I'm finding some people here quite irritating (not yourself, hossein_au)*

Fair enough.

 

[juddles]

.....not everything said about another culture is racist. Saying (or implying) that other cultures don't have manners is though.....

Every person in the world has personal likes and dislikes and opinions. That is normal and OK.

I understand the position of both ¨sides¨ here, but I wish to make a separate observation:

JohnK was effectively accused of being ¨racist¨ because of his post. In modern Australian society I suspect that we could all agree that to be ¨racist¨ is unacceptable or poorly viewed. IMHO, his post was not of such a nature worthy of him being labeled as a ¨racist¨. IMHO that accusation is of a much more serious nature than the content of his post supports.

Perhaps a reference to the difference in ¨manners¨ in different cultures could have been made without bringing out the ugly ¨racism¨ word?

Let´s get back to seatback delights

 

[Quickstatus]

No I didn't.


I think. Not I am sure. Would you like other examples?

Certain people like to walk along the footpath 3-4 abreast and expect you to move off the footpath, negotiate street stalls, traffic and anything else you may find in your way because they feel they are superior to others? Guess what? When I see them and I notice they do not make way for me to go past on the footpath I stand still. Make a stance if you like.

It happens so often one has to make an assumption about feelings of superiority, racism and manners in non western cultures. Correct?

Would you like to hear my airport elevator story and how it took me 15 minutes to get back to departures?

How about my Macau-Hong Kong ferry experience?

How about my hotel lounge experiences anywhere in SE Asia?

How about my daily experience at the breakfast buffet in any hotel in SE Asia where certain people like to push and shove to get at the food even though you were there before them and holding a plate and trying to put food on it.

You see this once and you write it off. You see it twice and you think that can't be right you are mistaken. You then see it so often during the course of the day that you can only make one assumption.

And no I do not care in that they were brought up this way in their culture because they had to fight for everything. Well now they have decided to explore civilised lands they need to learn to behave properly. Agree?

And no, it is not racism. Far from it. Sadly it is reality today and it is only getting worse. I dread some of my holidays. I am supposed to go and relax not see people's digusting behaviour but unless I close my eyes that does not happen.

I am starting to see merit in expensive hotels but that just gets too expensive for the number of nights I am away.

As with any viewpoints there is always the other POV. Many cultures your refer to here actually see the western culture as lacking in manners too... Several examples come to mind...

IMO your description that these cultures are non civilised is just wrong.

 

[Quickstatus]

I do agree with JohnK though that in general the racist, sexist and now misogynist card is played too often. And it is used invariably with the effect of shutting down much needed debate on the issues.

Did is anyone read that Karl Stefanovic stunt of saying he wore the same suit all year on show and no one commented but if a female presenter wore the same outfit more than one she would be criticised illustrating the unfair standard to which women are held. And the "sexist" card was raised. However it takes little time to realise that the criticism of the female presenter clothing would invariably come from females. And the men would not care. Who's is sexist - the inference is that men are sexist toward women. Even in this case.

The confected outrage of so many who push the sexist racist barrow is so hypocritical and is found totally lacking when put under the spotlight of substantive examination - as was the JG misogyny speech.

 

[JohnK]

As with any viewpoints there is always the other POV. Many cultures your refer to here actually see the western culture as lacking in manners too... Several examples come to mind...

IMO your description that these cultures are non civilised is just wrong.

Bad use of the word civilised?

Their behaviour needs to change. Not my peception.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

I wonder if anyone has ever found P*** on their QFi/d long haul seat, horrid thought.
Would QFi/d have to remove the whole seat, or just do a bear minimum basic decontaminate.
Edit: I am going to get bitten, but remember the case, was it on here, or AusBT, where the Chinese father and mother and grandfather allowed their son/grandson to p*** on newspapers on a CX flight? Don't think it was a QF flight, if memory serves.

 

[notsure]

And no I do not care in that they were brought up this way in their culture because they had to fight for everything. Well now they have decided to explore civilised lands they need to learn to behave properly. Agree?

The problem with your thinking, is that you are expecting everyone to behave in a manner that is consistent to how you were bought up.

Living in Norway, with a Norwegian husband, I often get annoyed because he (and others but I'm too polite to tell them about it), doesn't always say please & thankyou (something that is considered basic manners in Australia). He on the other-hand, gets annoyed at me because I do, as where he grew up, doing so comes across as being "stuck-up" & "snooty" and is therefore bad manners. So the exact same behavior is seen as being both good & bad manners based on the cultures in which we were raised - doesn't make either of us right or wrong - just different.

Expecting everyone around the world to adhere to the same standards as oneself, is no different to expecting them all to speak english etc - it's both unrealistic and while not overtly so, is still racist to a degree (though I don't believe it was your intention to be so).

In the end, you are never going to change other peoples behavior, so all you can do is either stay home in an environment which you can control, or learn not to let these things bother you, and just accept that people the world over are different and that cultural diversity is part of what makes travelling so much fun.

 

[JohnK]

In the end, you are never going to change other peoples behavior, so all you can do is either stay home in an environment which you can control, or learn not to let these things bother you, and just accept that people the world over are different and that cultural diversity is part of what makes travelling so much fun.

You are probably right.