Second Sydney Airport

[Himeno]

But your missing the fact that SYD is near the CBD. I can land at 8:25 am and be at work by 9:15 am from SYD. How's an airport way out west, with no infrastructure going to compete? Noting I have a 6am curfew restricting my departure, even if I'd be happy-ish to leave at 4:30 am if it saved money.

Same way LHR does with LCY. Or NRT and HND. or JFK and LGA. or ICN and GMP...

 

[JessicaTam]

The cynic in me is wondering if the announcement was timed to take some attention away from the ICAC investigation. With the loss of a premier, it is of course the airport announcement that is being overshadowed now.

 

[Himeno]

Yes quite possibly, we have lost our ability to 'think big' in this country.

Return to the mindset of the Snowy Mountains Scheme days?

 

[RooFlyer]

You asked why infrastructure was important. I answered. Pax having different needs was considered in that answer. No need to be insulting if you don't like the answer. Abbot my mate, indeed!!!

I can reliably get to work at 9:15, 90% of the time. On good days I can be there at 9am. The creek needs to kill the Adelaide curfew to be competitive.

Sorry if you thought I was insulting. I thought most people liked Tony Abbott.

But its true, isn't it? There of plenty of business for a western Sydney airport that doesn't involve CBD bound pax.

 

[medhead]

Sorry if you thought I was insulting. I thought most people liked Tony Abbott.

But its true, isn't it? There of plenty of business for a western Sydney airport that doesn't involve CBD bound pax.

Regardless, my point was that decent infrastructure is required for the airport to be a success. A road in Western Sydney is far from decent infrastructure.

 

[RooFlyer]

Regardless, my point was that decent infrastructure is required for the airport to be a success. A road in Western Sydney is far from decent infrastructure.

How much and what type of infrastructure do you think appropriate before the airport opens; and what sort of traffic do you think the airport will have in its first year, or 5 years? The picture seems to be emerging that the second airport will probably open with a bunch of freight (landing overnight), some overnight international flights (hello, EK) and a modest amount of domestic during the day, much of which will be servicing western Sydney or transit through.

I don't think any of that needs a freeway and certainly wouldn't support or need a rail line, although the latter would be good for western Sydney anyway.

SYD survived - through gnashing teeth - without a rail connection and a coughpy 2 lane road into the city, with traffic lights, for many years up till the Olympics (when I lived in Sydney and used that airport regularly!) I'm not wishing that situation on anyone, but it wasn't the end of the world. The second airport won't have anywhere near the pax spilling out of it compared to SYD even back then, for many years.

The highway and road upgrades as announced look pretty appropriate for the level of pax actually coming out of the airport and going further afield. I doubt many of them will be heading for the CBD.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Regardless, my point was that decent infrastructure is required for the airport to be a success. A road in Western Sydney is far from decent infrastructure.

Isn't that part of the plan for the new airport?

To build the infrastructure first, then the airport?

 

[medhead]

Isn't that part of the plan for the new airport?

To build the infrastructure first, then the airport?

To build a road to Liverpool.

 

[RooFlyer]

To build a road to Liverpool.

I think its a bit more than a 'road to Liverpool' isn't it?


From yesterday's announcement, the first item is:

● A NEW $1.25bill four-lane motorway from the M7 to the Northern Rd alongside Elizabeth Drive;

Then comes:

● $1.6 billion upgrade to Northern Rd to four lanes from Narellan to M4;

● $500 million upgrade to Bringelly Road to four lanes from Camden Valley Way to the Northern Rd;

● NEW interchanges connecting Northern Road and Elizabeth Drive with arterial roads; and

● $200 million for local road upgrades;

Graphically people can judge for themselves. (ignore the red pin): No CBD Freeway / tunnel unfortunately , but it seems to service the airport and Western Sydney pretty well.

 

[medhead]

Ohh a road to Liverpool and Penrith. That makes all the difference.

 

[SeatBackForward]

I think its a bit more than a 'road to Liverpool' isn't it?


From yesterday's announcement, the first item is:



Then comes:



Graphically people can judge for themselves. (ignore the red pin): No CBD Freeway / tunnel unfortunately , but it seems to service the airport and Western Sydney pretty well.

View attachment 27317

Its a little more than that, the Narellen Rd upgrade will capture all traffic coming from south along the Hume Hwy. Think Residents from as far afield as Goulburn and Wollongong will now not need to make their way into Sydney.

Residents from the Northern half of Sydney and further north will make their way down the F3/F3-M2 Tunnel, M2 and M7 and take the upgraded roads to the airport off the M7.

Reisdents along southern areas of Sydney will use the M5 and probably link directly into the airport.

Its actually not a bad plan. The only residents who are not "serviced" are those on the northern beaches and Eastern suburbs (and if comments in my workplace by people who live in those areas are an indicator - they wouldn't travel to the "western burbs" anyhow)

 

[SeatBackForward]

Ohh a road to Liverpool and Penrith. That makes all the difference.

You mean Penriff? I have two words that will be a major positive for this airport in Sydney - PEAK HOUR.

 

[kamchatsky]

Ohh a road to Liverpool and Penrith. That makes all the difference.

I do think they will add more infrastructure there to Badgerys Creek. Most likely extension of SWRL from Leppington to the airport, and possibly extension of NWRL to go via St Marys to the airport so it forms a loop. This is because sooner or later all those empty land will be filled with houses and more houses.

It would be good if they can reserve all the land for those rapid transportation now. All major roads to Badgerys Creek should be motorway at minimum.

 

[RooFlyer]

Ohh a road to Liverpool and Penrith. That makes all the difference.

... and connections to the M4, M7 and M5 and thence by freeway/tollway to where those roads go, including (gasp!) the CBD nirvana sought by some .

So tell us exactly would you want to see done before the airport opens, ~10 years from now? Remembering that the airport will be opening at a fraction of its eventual, and SYD's current volume.

 

[medhead]

I do think they will add more infrastructure there to Badgerys Creek. Most likely extension of SWRL from Leppington to the airport, and possibly extension of NWRL to go via St Marys to the airport so it forms a loop. This is because sooner or later all those empty land will be filled with houses and more houses.

It would be good if they can reserve all the land for those rapid transportation now. All major roads to Badgerys Creek should be motorway at minimum.

Not if we listen to some comments going around about not even MEL has a rail link.

... and connections to the M4, M7 and M5 and thence by freeway/tollway to where those roads go, including (gasp!) the CBD nirvana sought by some .

So tell us exactly would you want to see done before the airport opens, ~10 years from now? Remembering that the airport will be opening at a fraction of its eventual, and SYD's current volume.

Oh yeah? And where exactly do they connect to these roads? Oh look Liverpool and Penrith.

But How about we get this back to my point. DECENT infrastructure. Not an already over congested pseudo-motorway that absolutely do not go to the CBD. Try driving those motorways to the CBD. Especially in peak hour.

I'm also sorry if you can't handle the fact that people travel to Sydney to make money in the CBD. As I said decent infrastructure is needed for this airport to compete. Not sure why you keep trying to twist my point, but nothing you've mentioned so far is decent infrastructure. Roads!!! In the 21st century.

Anyway you keep ignoring my point and just go have an argument about this with the lamp post. It will be more satisfying for both of us.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Will they still call it badgerys creek?

My god how Australian .......

 

[Sprucegoose]

I love Sydney people discussing infrastructure .... It's such a shallow term up there!!

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>

Oh yeah? And where exactly do they connect to these roads? Oh look Liverpool and Penrith.

But How about we get this back to my point. DECENT infrastructure. Not an already over congested pseudo-motorway that absolutely do not go to the CBD. Try driving those motorways to the CBD. Especially in peak hour.

I'm also sorry if you can't handle the fact that people travel to Sydney to make money in the CBD. As I said decent infrastructure is needed for this airport to compete. Not sure why you keep trying to twist my point, but nothing you've mentioned so far is decent infrastructure. Roads!!! In the 21st century.

Anyway you keep ignoring my point and just go have an argument about this with the lamp post. It will be more satisfying for both of us.

(my bolding)

What's that Carly Simon song? "I bet you think this thread is about me?" Sorry medhead, the topic is not all about you and your points.

I'm simply contributing what's been announced : that the sum total announced for the airport opening will be 3 alternative 4 lane main roads connecting to motorways to wester Sydney, the CBD and anywhere else they go to. Given that the airport won't have large volume when it opens, that's pretty good to me. Add in the likely fact that most of the initial airport users won't want to go to the CBD anyway (there will be a closer alternative for that!!).

But back to you. Dis-satisfied with the above, it appears you will only be satisfied with a new, direct motorway link all the way to the CBD which is frankly so ludicrous as not to merit discussion.

I'm also sorry if you can't handle the fact that people travel to Sydney to make money in the CBD.

Golly, got me there. But ... Oh! Look! :shock: There's a nice, big airport only a few km away and its got a motorway and a railway all the way into the city! Maybe the CBD folk can use that, and maybe the million+ people who live and work in western Sydney and also fly, and those ?hundreds of thousands of pax who are only transiting Sydney can use the western Sydney airport. :idea:

But seriously, the obvious thing we are not mentioning is rail to western Sydney and maybe the airport and I'm hoping once Mike Baird sells off the electricity system in NSW that might even get done too.

 

[knasty]

How about high speed rail shuttle Liverpool-Badgerys-Penrith? That would hook up the main existing rail infrastructure for West and South west.

 

[Himeno]

I love Sydney people discussing infrastructure .... It's such a shallow term up there!!

Maybe we could bulldoze Sydney and start over?