Should I stay or should I go - Hong Kong [protests]

[Melburnian1]

..I wonder if QF will waive cancellation fee if travel warning goes higher?..

Always possible, but airlines can be loath to do this not just because of the administrative costs and refunds, but also because it sends a signal to prospective travellers not to make a booking, compounding any loss of business. Airlines want bums on seats at what they consider an acceptable yield.

Some passengers - see Pushka above - transit through HKG so a 'refund' situation might also scare passengers away, and then (for airlines like CX and QF) there's the danger that some then book on competitors like SQ as they perceive SIN to be a safer place in which to change planes.

 

[Melburnian1]

I have Boxing Day classic reward flights to HKG returning New Years, which i most likely will cancel given Hong Kong was the destination (all was fine when i booked those back in late January). But havent been able to bring myself to cancel yet, just in case things resolve...

24 weeks plus of demonstrations gives one the impression things won't resolve quickly.

Even if mainland China decides to send in more troops and imposes a curfew/martial law, that would still mean either disruptions or a most unpleasant atmosphere. Many MTR (rail) stations are damaged so that must be adversely affecting the ease of travelling by mass transit.

 

[Max Samuels]

Wow China is so awesome. All this great news. Yesterday it was ethnic cleansing, today the on-going persecution of democracy in HK. Did anyone read Paul Keating's speech re China? I swear it sounds like he is being paid by Beijing....

 

[QF WP]

Given the stories that the police have closed up the access to the University (trapping those within) and some escaped overnight abseiling down and escaping on motorbikes. Will be interesting to see whether they think they'll starve them out is the best option. I'm sure that the protestors will use drones to do food drops. They are very agile thinkers.

Glad I sent my wife on EY via AUH in October, as HKG is my (our) normal transit route. Now that has definitely changed to Singapore for the next few years.

@NoName, definitely check out JL. @drron and @mrs.dr.ron (if i recall correctly) have flown them in J and F over recent years. I wouldn't want the protestors to take to the airport again and have cancelled flights and you caught in HKG awaiting a cessation of the hostilities.

It's a pity that they have escalated to throwing molatovs et al, but that's the rabid section of the movement. I had positive feelings about the movement until that happened, now it's waning. But that section are hard to control.

Then again, I have less support for the way in which the HK Government and China have been presenting themselves.

 

[Melburnian1]

.. I wouldn't want the protestors to take to the airport again and have cancelled flights and you caught in HKG awaiting a cessation of the hostilities..

Unlikely, because one now requires a flight itinerary to get in. The demonstrators seem to have decided that other locations are preferable.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

It's a pity that they have escalated to throwing molatovs et al, but that's the rabid section of the movement. I had positive feelings about the movement until that happened, now it's waning.

China recognizes that mechanism for influencing public opinion, which is why there has been credible talk of infiltration.

Hopefully you meant "QR via DOH" or "EY via AUH" above, because Qatar and the UAE aren't playing together nicely at the moment either.

 

[QF WP]

Whoops, what was I thinking EY via AUH. Said goodbye to all my AA points.

Infiltration, that's using the protestors own warfare against them. Doubt they'd get too far up the "ranks" of the organisers, as they are pretty tight (from my recollection of a news story about a journalist who was invited into a series of their meetings, always changing venues, using SnapChat or similar).

Sad that one decision by China has come to this. Lucky that I have no clients living here any more. No need to visit.

 

[mrs.dr.ron]

@NoName, definitely check out JL. @drron and @mrs.dr.ron (if i recall correctly) have flown them in J and F over recent years.

Yes we like JAL and the JAL F is fantastic ! The japanese and western meals are both really really good. Always a great flight and lovely crew.

 

[p--and--t]

Next door neighbours arrived back from a RTW via HKG on Sunday.

They had 2 nights in HKG on the way back; said they loved every minute of it and besides some graffiti saw nothing of the unrest there.

Guess it depends on which day, where you stay, which train/station you use.

 

[tgh]

credible talk of infiltration.. of course.. it's the obvious solution… and was probably planned that way for a long time
Escalate the protests until the troops can roll in with relative impunity and reunify the province with the motherland.
Ethnic cleansing is now an art form ….

 

[p--and--t]

credible talk of infiltration.. of course.. it's the obvious solution… and was probably planned that way for a long time
Escalate the protests until the troops can roll in with relative impunity and reunify the province with the motherland.
Ethnic cleansing is now an art form ….

Unconfirmed rumours several weeks back from a couple journalists that the HK police are giving the triads a long leash to stir things up.

 

[NoName]

@NoName, definitely check out JL. @drron and @mrs.dr.ron (if i recall correctly) have flown them in J and F over recent years. I wouldn't want the protestors to take to the airport again and have cancelled flights and you caught in HKG awaiting a cessation of the

Yes we like JAL and the JAL F is fantastic ! The japanese and western meals are both really really good. Always a great flight and lovely crew.

Thanks for this. Yes they are looking like the obvious alternative. Need to work out how to get 4 of us on though. 2 in F & 2 in J seems readily available for the LAX-NRT sector but harder to get all into J from NRT-SIN it seems. Might have to put 2 in Y+ and hope for extra J seats last minute. A discussion for another thread though probably.

 

[John Voller]

Flying into Hk for 4 nights for work in a fortnight. Spoken to people on the ground and I have no concerns. Advice was to just watch online to see where the protests are and then steer clear of those areas. Obviously don’t plan to range too far, you’ve just got to be sensible.

 

[kelvedon]

Will be interesting to see whether they think they'll starve them out is the best option. I'm sure that the protestors will use drones to do food drops. They are very agile thinkers.

Nah, they're Millennials, just turn off the WiFi and there'll be an exodus.

 

[get me outta here]

They are terrified. If the govt could cut comms it would make it impossibly hard for them. All sides have got themselves into a terrible stand off; the 'children' are isolated with no meds or food and are past exhausted. The police can't back down. So pleased I am not one of those parents at the front gate.

 

[Isochronous]

Wow China is so awesome. All this great news. Yesterday it was ethnic cleansing, today the on-going persecution of democracy in HK. Did anyone read Paul Keating's speech re China? I swear it sounds like he is being paid by Beijing....

Indeed - a highly-paid advisor to the China Development Bank who has publicly bragged about regular meetings with Li Keqiang, the Premier of China (this latter bit might be just Keating blowing his on trumpet though)

Given the stories that the police have closed up the access to the University (trapping those within) and some escaped overnight abseiling down and escaping on motorbikes. Will be interesting to see whether they think they'll starve them out is the best option. I'm sure that the protestors will use drones to do food drops. They are very agile thinkers.

Glad I sent my wife on EY via AUH in October, as HKG is my (our) normal transit route. Now that has definitely changed to Singapore for the next few years.

@NoName, definitely check out JL. @drron and @mrs.dr.ron (if i recall correctly) have flown them in J and F over recent years. I wouldn't want the protestors to take to the airport again and have cancelled flights and you caught in HKG awaiting a cessation of the hostilities.

It's a pity that they have escalated to throwing molatovs et al, but that's the rabid section of the movement. I had positive feelings about the movement until that happened, now it's waning. But that section are hard to control.

Then again, I have less support for the way in which the HK Government and China have been presenting themselves.

Drone drops definitely seem possible to me - if you look at the tactics and the speed at which logistics infrastructure has sprung up, gatherings organised, flyers disseminated on the internet is is truly a marvel - and a reminder that HK is home to the world's most resillient and innovative people.

Nobody wants to see violence on the streets of a major world city but for us as Australians we have to be wary of judging the democracy activists through our Western lens - after all we live in countries where police generally treat the populace fairly and are held accountable for abuse of power, and we also regular change our governments via the ballot box. HK has none of that and the police have become a violent rabble inflicting political persecution on democrats but turning a blind eye to violence when its inflicted by groups perceived as pro-China.

Unconfirmed rumours several weeks back from a couple journalists that the HK police are giving the triads a long leash to stir things up.

Plus Chinese agents in HK police uniform as they've been found in possession of equipment issued to Chinese authorities and speaking nothing but Mandarin.

 

[get me outta here]

Not to mention the Triads unhindered attacking kids with iron bars.

Plus Chinese agents in HK police uniform as they've been found in possession of equipment issued to Chinese authorities and speaking nothing but Mandarin.

 

[Lynda2475]

Always possible, but airlines can be loath to do this not just because of the administrative costs and refunds, but also because it sends a signal to prospective travellers not to make a booking, compounding any loss of business. Airlines want bums on seats at what they consider an acceptable yield.

Well its a calssic reward booking so fully refundable less the 6000 point penalty anyway.

But when Swine Flu hit, I remmeber AA waived all cancellation fees for my Mexico trip due to people being warned to avoid unecessary travel.

I am a little surprised that SmartTraveller site hasnt upgraded to "Reconsider Your need to Travel" given current events.

 

[Isochronous]

Not to mention the Triads unhindered attacking kids with iron bars.

Put another way:

- if Daniel Andrews announced that Victoria would no longer elect its Parliament and instead he was creating a new committee of 1,200 elites to elect the Victorian Government, would you march down Collins St to protest?
- if Victoria Police then started shooting at you for doing so, would you try to defend yourself or (a) let yourself be shot or (b) just quietly let your democracy slip away?

 

[Melburnian1]

...I am a little surprised that SmartTraveller site hasnt upgraded to "Reconsider Your need to Travel" given current events.

Sometimes it is slow. Is diplomacy a factor?

No such reticence re southern Thailand and Philippines' eastern Mindanao, as both are flagged as 'reconsider your need to travel.' I've been to both in recent times and while one person not experiencing anything bad does not prove anything, there's no significant adverse events occurring in either at present. Perhaps foolhardy, but I felt perfectly safe in either.

Similarly while it's not one of the South American countries I've been to, those who've recently been to Colombia suggest it's safe and welcoming, but the Oz Govt thinks half to two-thirds of the country is in the 'reconsider' camp.

Do we need to 'exercise a degre of caution' regarding Smarttraveller website advice?