Should long term Qantas Club membership be recognised?

[fiscal]

I recently asked Qantas if they could consider giving recognition to long term Club members, through better status ratings, etc, say Silver after 10 years, Gold at 20 years etc.

The idea behind it was the knowledge that not everyone can travel extensively to build status, but they show their loyalty to Qantas by being a member of the Qantas Club.

True, there are some benefits to be had by being a member, but in reality, I have seen the value for money diminish over the past few years, and yet the fee for renewal is to rise to $470 in Feb 2011, that's a 16% increase over the past 2 years.

Qantas's response was that they are only interested in actual frequent flyers, rather that loyalty in other areas.

So, what do you think? Should Qantas recognize long term membership or not.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

It's clear Qantas don't value loyalty even to top-tier Platinum frequent flyers, so there's no hope of any recognition down the bronze end of the spectrum.

Sorry to be so blunt

If I remmeber correctly QC membership was ~$360/year when I joined almost 10 years ago, so if it's only $110 more now, that represents below CPI increases... which brings me to one of my favourite business topics - The art of pricing! Think about it, $470/year for someone who isn't accumulating 700 SC worth of travel. Qantas get a marvelous deal because you don't use many resources and there's almost no cost to provide you with the service of QC Membership. It wouldn't surprise me if QC Membership costs increased at 10%+ PA until they saw numbers decline at which point it would plateu and pricing would halt for some years.

The age old saying is, if your customers arn't complaining about your prices then you're not charging enough.

 

[anat0l]

Simple answer: no.

Next question, please.

It's clear Qantas don't value loyalty even to top-tier Platinum frequent flyers

And yet you still hold your black card. Isn't it about time you stopped being a hypocrite, blow-torched the thing and move on?

 

[moa999]

Qantas is pretty firm that status is for fliers, which I think is the right call.

If you really want status, go to the US get a credit card and put through enough charges and you'll get status.

As for a multi-year low flying member, damm you should have bought life.

 

[fiscal]

If I remember correctly QC membership was ~$360/year when I joined almost 10 years ago, so if it's only $110 more now, that represents below CPI increases...

It was $355 in 2005, so the average increase is about 5% p.a on 2005 prices.

As for a multi-year low flying member, damm you should have bought life.

Tell me about it, but then again it was expensive at the time....

 

[simongr]

It's clear Qantas don't value loyalty even to top-tier Platinum frequent flyers, so there's no hope of any recognition down the bronze end of the spectrum.

So my lounge access, LTS (in three months) is no sign of value for loyalty?

 

[markis10]

Qantas is not in a hurry to recognize people who have been flying the equivalent of two return trips to Melbourne ex Sydney per year which is about the annual cost in $$ terms as a QP membership, so the answer would be no.

 

[BJReplay]

I suspect there is a happy medium between not recognising it at all (current situation), and treating it the same as Platinum (which would suit me just fine).

I've had QC membership now for 17 years - bought life 17 years ago for around $3400 if I remember correctly, so it costs me around $200 per year (and decreasing). Won't bother with NPV calculations.

QC used to get you a lot of stuff you couldn't get any other way - extra baggage, priority check in, etc. etc. Now, you can get that if you fly enough (and fair enough, too).

My flying pattern is such that I tend to oscillate from Bronze to Gold, then sometimes soft landing to Silver, then back to Bronze. In other words, work means I often end up flying regularly enough in a membership year to jump from Bronze to Gold, and then don't fly (all that much) for a couple of years.

What irks me as a Bronze member now is that I'm effectively treated as no more valuable than someone who has either just joined FF or is otherwise an occasional flyer. No seat preselection, reduced check-in privileges (i.e. no RFID enabled bag tags, for example) etc. And I could be stuck that way even if I'm flying every week for half a year while I slowly build status points to Silver and then to Gold.

So, if I had it my way, life QC membership would be worth something (say Gold equivalent), and paid (each year) membership should be worth Silver.

As others have posted, won't happen, and as a result, I, as a small business owner won't be paying for membership for my staff who fly regularly enough to deserve it, but not enough to earn it. Instead, they come in as a guest with me when we fly together, and slum it when they are on their own.

Tossing a few privileges our way would result in Qantas getting my QC membership fees, which as earlier posters have pointed out, probably earn them more than the benefits provided cost for non-frequent frequent-flyers.

 

[dfcatch]

QC membership is recognized and rewarded with the published benefits.

Notwithstanding the latest changes which significantly devalued both QC and PS..... But generally speaking, QC membership provides you with most of the benefits of Silver, together with the lounge access benefit of Gold.

I have been a QC member for 11 years now, was Silver for a couple of years, and Platinum for the last year.

I always viewed Silver as almost a non-event, as QC membership already gave me 98% of the benefits (increased luggage allowance, priority checkin etc). Of course Gold was the first level you had lounge access privileges.

So in reality, paid QC membership does already give you the benefits of Silver with a little Gold.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Spend more, get recognized more......

 

[RogerRoo]

Many of us have jobs where we respond to changing business needs rather than a regular program of work (when, where and how often we travel). We travel when the need is there. It all depends on changing business requirements which vary from year to year. I enjoy travel, but I don't travel for travels sake.

We are Qantas Club members by our own choice. At the moment the alternative choice for business based Australian domestic travel is very limited and this in part also influences our International travel to some extent. What Qantas is doing is reacting to that current lack of competition and focusing moreon frequency of travel in immediate periods rather than medium to long term loyal custimer. Like many of us, my travel can significantly vary each year and fluctuates across Bronze, Silver or Gold status.

If Qantas continue to erode QC benefits (which I personally believe they are doing) and continue to milk their cash cow by reducing costs (reducing benefits to members) they are satisfying the variable flyer much less. The risk for Qantas is that this variable flyer WILL be more likely to vote with their feet in the future when a viable business competitor emerges. Obviously this is most likely to be Virgin once they transform their operations and align with a more business oriented offering. In Qantas reducing QC benefits, they are also reducing the barriers to entry for Virgin's impending Business Assault.

Message to Qantas: Suggest you look after your longer term customers who have been loyal over many years, as well as the current higher frequency flyers, otherwise it may bite you in the tail around the corner.

Roger

 

[dfcatch]

Many of us have jobs where we respond to changing business needs rather than a regular program of work (when, where and how often we travel). We travel when the need is there. It all depends on changing business requirements which vary from year to year. I enjoy travel, but I don't travel for travels sake.

We are Qantas Club members by our own choice. At the moment the alternative choice for business based Australian domestic travel is very limited and this in part also influences our International travel to some extent. What Qantas is doing is reacting to that current lack of competition and focusing moreon frequency of travel in immediate periods rather than medium to long term loyal custimer. Like many of us, my travel can significantly vary each year and fluctuates across Bronze, Silver or Gold status.

If Qantas continue to erode QC benefits (which I personally believe they are doing) and continue to milk their cash cow by reducing costs (reducing benefits to members) they are satisfying the variable flyer much less. The risk for Qantas is that this variable flyer WILL be more likely to vote with their feet in the future when a viable business competitor emerges. Obviously this is most likely to be Virgin once they transform their operations and align with a more business oriented offering. In Qantas reducing QC benefits, they are also reducing the barriers to entry for Virgin's impending Business Assault.

Message to Qantas: Suggest you look after your longer term customers who have been loyal over many years, as well as the current higher frequency flyers, otherwise it may bite you in the tail around the corner.

Roger

I agree with you in terms of Qantas reducing QC benefits and the consequential erosion of loyalty.

However QC benefits and status benefits are similar but distinct areas.

If you want the benefits of status, then you have to fly the required amount as per the published program.

If as you state (and as I was for many years), you are a loyal but perhaps infrequent flyer then benefits are obtainable by purchase of QC membership. With the exception of OW Ruby status, advance seat selection and a "slight" improved chance in the upgrade lottery, you are already enjoying the benefits of silver status plus lounge access.

IMHO I don't agree that you have a strong argument against Qantas for not recognizing you.

Remember that long-term but infrequent flyers are rewarded still with loyalty bonuses and lifetime status credits, so benefits do exist averaged across your years, including the quieter non-status years.

As above - I do agree with your complaint about reduction in benefits.
But perhaps Qantas could offer a discount on renewal after so many years of membership, I would support that.

 

[JohnK]

Personally I don't think long term Qantas Club members should be given higher status but that is just my opinion. Don't forget Qantas Club is the equivalent to Silver, if not above, when it comes to upgrades, op-ups etc.

So my lounge access, LTS (in three months) is no sign of value for loyalty?

Are you saying you will be Lifetime Silver in 3 months time? You won't get lounge access until you reach Lifetime Gold.

Message to Qantas: Suggest you look after your longer term customers who have been loyal over many years, as well as the current higher frequency flyers, otherwise it may bite you in the tail around the corner.

And it would be entirely unfair to reward someone with Gold status if they have only been a Qantas Lounge member for 20 years and doing 5-6 flights a year while a high frequency frequent flyer on Gold status earning 600-1100 SCs a year in the same period has remained loyal to Qantas.

Do the flying and be rewarded with status.

 

[drron]

Well I am life QP and the only unfair thing is that most of my travel that posted to QFF was prior to current SC system so is not recognised for lifetime status-and I am talking several DONEs and J trips to the USA before QF priced themselves out of that market for me.
Otherwise I see nothing unfair in the benefits of QP.

 

[drewbles]

Message to Qantas: Suggest you look after your longer term customers who have been loyal over many years, as well as the current higher frequency flyers, otherwise it may bite you in the tail around the corner.

Roger

They do. It's called Lifetime Silver and Lifetime Gold.

Sorry but if you're not doing the flying, why should they reward you as a 'frequent flyer'?

I'm all for QF re-instating benefits and will be one of the many to acknowledge that our benefits (in any tier) are being removed piece by piece making all levels less worthwhile.

There's a quote from Up In The Air that sums it up just fine - "There's nothing cheap about loyalty".

It's a frequent flyer program, not a frequent qantas club patron program. You pay for benefits, and receive them. By paying to fly, you get your benefits provided to you *due to your loyalty*.

(edit: I've been a FF since 2001, joined the QC in 2002, paid for it up until March of 2009 when I became Gold, and have 6 months paid QC on hold - I've been Platinum since October 2009, and for the majority of my time as paid QC was Silver; I feel QF owe me nothing more for the 7 paid years of membership, as they provided me with what I was paying for).

 

[medhead]

I don't have the answer, but as a long term paid QC member I do think that more recognition would be warranted. I'm not sure how or what, but there should be more recognition. As already mentioned QC used to be the only way to get benefits. For me that is the fundamental basis for how QC members should be recognised. QC members are also a cheap group as they don't fly enough to make a major demand on resources.

There is also an obvious way to value paid membership by remembering that Gold FF get complimentary QC membership. That infers that a Gold FF has made enough profit for Qantas such that they can be given a free QC membership. So we are talking the profit on 70 MEL-SYD flights, for example. This is the same value that a paid QC members is giving to Qantas via their membership fee. So the profit from a paid QC member's flights is going to be additional to the money that they have already provided in the QC membership fee.

Obviously there are swing and roundabouts on the question of valuing Gold vs paid QC membership. I also haven't gone into the whole situation. But as an observation it gives an idea about the were the value of a paid QC member might sit.

The paid QC member is going to be buying all their flights from Qantas (at least I did when I was only a paid QC). Your gold FF is not necessarily going to remain loyal in the long run, they might change jobs and no longer fly or fly with the competition. They might have heaps of flights and be double gold.

so if one is stumping up the equivalent of the profit that gets a gold FF free lounge access every year for 10 years, then I think that is worth something. At the very least it does show an extended period of loyalty to Qantas. I think that is worth something - but not sure what it is worth. :?:


BTW for those raising the question of why get rewarded if not doing the flying. Just remember that QFF is a frequent spender program. :idea: They seem to have no problem rewarding people who spend a lot, especially with the ASA situation.

It's a frequent flyer program, not a frequent qantas club patron program.

Of course, if your not gold then your not likely to be a frequent qc patron, due to not flying that much

 

[lovetravellingoz]

If I remmeber correctly QC membership was ~$360/year when I joined almost 10 years ago, so if it's only $110 more now, that represents below CPI increases... .

Well it might if you were comparing like with like.

When I first got my QC (after my Ansett GW ceased) it was a lot better than it is now.

There are a lot less benefits. Even the food is poor these days.

Indeed when my current 2 year membership explores I doubt that I will renew.

 

[elbarto]

Another issue, which I haven't seen mentioned yet, is that if your QC membership gives you FF status in some way, then that FF status has an equivalent OW status. Somehow I don't think other OW carriers would be happy that someone has simply bought their way into a position and they're being forced to honour the benefits. Then every OW carrier would introduce similar programs, costs would spiral out of control and the end result is everyone looses.

Perhaps QF could throw in a token 100 SC towards LTS after say 10 years of continual QC membership, but I don't really agree that people should be able to buy status without actually having to do the leg work to obtain it.

 

[dfcatch]

Well it might if you were comparing like with like.

When I first got my QC (after my Ansett GW ceased) it was a lot better than it is now.

There are a lot less benefits. Even the food is poor these days.

Indeed when my current 2 year membership explores I doubt that I will renew.

I agree, I was a GW orphan too, and QC seemed to be more back then.

Yes, the lounges have been renovated, but it seems that has been a replacement for everything else that has gone only one direction.

 

[dfcatch]

Another issue, which I haven't seen mentioned yet, is that if your QC membership gives you FF status in some way, then that FF status has an equivalent OW status. Somehow I don't think other OW carriers would be happy that someone has simply bought their way into a position and they're being forced to honour the benefits. Then every OW carrier would introduce similar programs, costs would spiral out of control and the end result is everyone looses.

Perhaps QF could throw in a token 100 SC towards LTS after say 10 years of continual QC membership, but I don't really agree that people should be able to buy status without actually having to do the leg work to obtain it.

Yes, it's called Partner Lounge Agreements.

Status folks have OW status, and QC folks have partner lounges.

Again, for all intents and purposes QC members have the equivalent of better-than-silver benefits when flying on QF.

I think this whole discussion is misguided by talking about status (earned from flying), and QC (earned by paid membership) being in the same bucket.

Let's rephrase the original question -

"For those who didn't get to take advantage of buying lifetime QC whilst it was available.... How about a discount off renewal fees after x number of years..??"

After all, if someone is a QC member without status, that means they are flying so infrequently that they are not contributing much to QF's costs.