Singapore Airlines and Flight Centre falling out ?

[FL360]

But it would help them to kill off competitors in these times....
so they will have an advantage when the economy picks up....

given SIA's strong parent (temasak holdings), they have the $$$ to
do something like this...

now when is QF going to match it ?
QF is still selling Jul-Aug tick to LHR for 2k...
(probably FC is helping them selling these seats.... )

You mean unseen since last time they had a sale 2 months ago??

Unfortunately selling seats at these levels is neither sustainable nor viable long term, and as soon as the economy picks up, it'll spell the end of these sort of ridiculously cheap fares.

TG

 

[Travel Guru]

But it would help them to kill off competitors in these times....
so they will have an advantage when the economy picks up....

given SIA's strong parent (temasak holdings), they have the $$$ to
do something like this...

now when is QF going to match it ?
QF is still selling Jul-Aug tick to LHR for 2k...
(probably FC is helping them selling these seats.... )

True, though all agents have access to these sale fares, though I don't personally promote them in any advertising, not enough markup to make it worthwhile.

Not sure on QF, FC should be selling some good QF soon to try and make their back end sales targets...they generally do loss leaders just to get the volume around target time.

Given SQ only launched this morning, i'd expect QF and others to follow suit either today or over the weekend.

TG

 

[NM]

Does Qantas need to match these sales? What are their current loads on the routes in the economy cabin? I keep reading about full and oversold Y cabins on many routes. If that is true then there is no need to be matching other airline's sales.

 

[docjames]

True, though all agents have access to these sale fares, though I don't personally promote them in any advertising, not enough markup to make it worthwhile.

I presume however if a client asks for the "cheapest option" on the applicable dates you do tell them the SQ fare! :shock:

 

[FL360]

True, given QF had sales months back...
and they would have sold a lot of seats....

SIA is geographically disadvantaged for routes
such as direct to asia or to the east when compared with QF...
obviously ..

Just a wild idea, is it viable for Temasak/SIA to consider buying a pacific island somewhere so they can make it a transit base for their jets ??
They can have new faster / lower cost routes such as AUS east coast <=> americas, or North East Asia to the Americas...

Does Qantas need to match these sales? What are their current loads on the routes in the economy cabin? I keep reading about full and oversold Y cabins on many routes. If that is true then there is no need to be matching other airline's sales.

 

[Keith009]

Perhaps I've not been observant before but I've been seeing a lot more SQ ads on the tele recently after this debacle with FC. All put out by an agency called Scenic Tours. Could be SQ-funded in retaliation?

Does Qantas need to match these sales? What are their current loads on the routes in the economy cabin? I keep reading about full and oversold Y cabins on many routes. If that is true then there is no need to be matching other airline's sales.

The aircraft reconfigs would indicate that they're running short on whY seats, whereas there are too many premium seats that they don't need. However these SQ sales are also for J and F.

 

[FL360]

docjames,

Why don't you try to find a cheap SIA.com fare on a specific date,
and try to call some FC reps for the cheapest fare on these
dates and see which airline they are trying to sell to you ?

Copied down the store location and the rep name as well..

I am sure there will be heated discussions for another 30 posts....

I presume however if a client asks for the "cheapest option" on the applicable dates you do tell them the SQ fare! :shock:

 

[docjames]

Hey, i wasnt having a go, was clarifying the situation!

And no, dont want to waste my time ringing FC - I wont touch them (have a perfectly good travel agent).

Having said that, it would be interesting to see who FC recommend!

 

[NM]

Just a wild idea, is it viable for Temasak/SIA to consider buying a pacific island somewhere so they can make it a transit base for their jets ??

Perhaps New Zealand would do the trick?

Seriously, all they need to do is create a subsidiary that is an Australian company, abide by the Australian companies laws and regulations, apply for an Australian AOC and off they go. This is just what Sir Richard Branson did when he started Virgin Blue. Does not need to be Australian owned, just an Australian registered company. They could create Singapore Airlines Australia and fly Australia-USA as soon as they met the regulatory requirements.

But of course they don't want to do that because that would mean they have to compete with Qantas on a somewhat more level playing field rather than taking advantage of the labour/employment laws and costs in Singapore, the tax benefits available to them in Singapore (such as accelerated aircraft depreciation) etc.

Remember that Qantas established Jet Connect so they could operate trans-tasman with lower costs due to different requirements for NZ companies. Similarly they established JetStar Asia so they could operate in certain countries. In the case of JetStar Asia, the local requirements included that the company be majority locally owned. That does not apply for starting an airline in Australia. It can be 100% foreign owned so long as the company is registered in Australia and operates as an Australian company paying Australian taxes etc.

 

[Travel Guru]

Perhaps I've not been observant before but I've been seeing a lot more SQ ads on the tele recently after this debacle with FC. All put out by an agency called Scenic Tours. Could be SQ-funded in retaliation?

Scenic Tours is a high end tour company, its possible SQ are contributing something, though I suspect given the downturn in pax visiting Europe that it's more likely that ST is absorbing it just to get bums on seats.


With your query Doc, yes we'd always advise the cheapest, though most of our clients go for more flexible or premium fares.

TG

 

[oz_mark]

That does not apply for starting an airline in Australia. It can be 100% foreign owned so long as the company is registered in Australia and operates as an Australian company paying Australian taxes etc.

So how come Tiger has to use its Singapore based planes to fly to Perth, but can't use its Australian planes to fly to Singapore?

 

[docjames]

With your query Doc, yes we'd always advise the cheapest, though most of our clients go for more flexible or premium fares.

TG

LOL. I kind of knew that would be the case! Sorry!


On the other hand, I'm actually kind-of tempted to ring FC and see what they say.....

 

[FL360]

My guess is that a VH registered plane (australian rego)
is more expensive to run / maintain than a 9V registered plane (singapore rego)

and that's why if they have bought an island in the pacific they
can use their cheap labor to run the stop, rather than establishing an
Australian registered company paying australian wages....

So how come Tiger has to use its Singapore based planes to fly to Perth, but can't use its Australian planes to fly to Singapore?

 

[AlphaVictor]

Here's a thought.

FCentre wont get decent fares for this promo. (because of their fight etc)
Get a really cheap quote on SQ from some other chain
Go to FC
They can't beat it
Free flight.

That's their new promise.!

P.S Who am I kidding, they'll probably lose money to prove a point and not give away the free flights

 

[NM]

So how come Tiger has to use its Singapore based planes to fly to Perth, but can't use its Australian planes to fly to Singapore?

I think you may find they want to use the Singapore based aircraft and crew due to lower operating costs than Australian based aircraft and crew. As stated above, labour costs are lower and they receive some very attractive tax benefits for their Singapore based company.

 

[aus_flyer]

Article today at Airline and travel agent go to war | Business | News.com.au

IT'S an unseemly scrap that couldn't come at a worse time for either party.

At the centre of their public battle is a disagreement over a few percentage points of commission. Admittedly, those few points translate into millions of dollars.

But the dispute shines the spotlight on something far more important - the future of travel agencies themselves, The Australian reports.

 

[oz_mark]

I think you may find they want to use the Singapore based aircraft and crew due to lower operating costs than Australian based aircraft and crew. As stated above, labour costs are lower and they receive some very attractive tax benefits for their Singapore based company.

My impression was that while they can operate domestically, there was some regulation that prevented such a foreign owned entity from operating international services. I did read that Tiger had at one point looked for a local equity partner for exactly this reason - they were restricted as a foreign domestic operator from operating internationally.

 

[NM]

My impression was that while they can operate domestically, there was some regulation that prevented such a foreign owned entity from operating international services. I did read that Tiger had at one point looked for a local equity partner for exactly this reason - they were restricted as a foreign domestic operator from operating internationally.

I didn't think there was any restriction on the ownership so long as they have the appropriate corporate structure in Australia and the AOC. But I don't know for certain and it would be interesting to have to clarified if anyone knows for certain.

 

[Evan]

I didn't think there was any restriction on the ownership so long as they have the appropriate corporate structure in Australia and the AOC. But I don't know for certain and it would be interesting to have to clarified if anyone knows for certain.

I could easily imagine what you are saying is correct. But there would be limited places you could fly since you would need the 6th freedom rights would you not and all flights would have some origin elsewhere ? That i could imagine would limit the desire for people to do it.
Or am i just thinking crazy ?

 

[Mal]

Article today at Airline and travel agent go to war | Business | News.com.au

Also quotes AlphaVictor's post earlier in this thread:

The spat has livened up the online aviation and travel community. "Alpha Victor", writing on the Frequent Flyer blog, summarises the battle like this:

FC: "Give us better commission or we'll boycott your airline."

SQ: "Bye-bye."

FC: "Ooops."

ACCC: "What's all this, then?"

That's cute, though not entirely accurate. For a start, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission will not confirm if it has anything more than a passing interest in the dispute. And there are different versions about the causes of the disagreement.