Slightly odd crew SYD - PER

[Choosethedrew]

Hi all, sorry on UK time.

Clearly the CC have the authority and training to refuse alcohol (had to look up RSA!), I don’t debate that, my question was more around whether those on this forum who fly the airline more regularly than me see this often, I have never seen it happen before.

Obviously I cannot know for sure whether he was drunk or not, and I didn’t speak with him so whilst he might have been manifesting walking soberly, keeping quiet etc. he could have been slurring away to the CC. But given his fair stature I would have doubted that, there were literally no other signs and certainly didn’t weave down the jetway spitting profanity whilst boarding.

One thing I noticed is that when he finished the whisky / whatever, one time he kind of shook the ice in the empty glass to gesture for another (1D on a 737 so in direct sight line of the CC seats) which then resulted in the water. It could be that rather than being drunk, the CC didn’t like that, and denied service based on how it was requested, but citing ‘RSA’.

Regarding the food, yes it was a very odd reaction. The CC had a Scandinavian-style “everyone must have the same” stance. If I had two meals, that means I would be treated better than everyone else and that seemed unacceptable to her, quite separate to whether there was any food left or if others wanted more.

 

[Pushka]

One thing I noticed is that when he finished the whisky / whatever, one time he kind of shook the ice in the empty glass to gesture for another (1D on a 737 so in direct sight line of the CC seats) which then resulted in the water. It could be that rather than being drunk, the CC didn’t like that, and denied service based on how it was requested, but citing ‘RSA’.
.

Agree. There are 'ways' of dealing with behaviours that irritate. Seems the crew may have used one. And made it legit.

 

[RichardMEL]

One thing I noticed is that when he finished the whisky / whatever, one time he kind of shook the ice in the empty glass to gesture for another (1D on a 737 so in direct sight line of the CC seats) which then resulted in the water. It could be that rather than being drunk, the CC didn’t like that, and denied service based on how it was requested, but citing ‘RSA’.

To me that is such boorish kind of behaviour.. possibly acceptable at some sort of club or something but it's just "hey waiter serve me now" which has a certain sort of attitude I wouldn't be too impressed with personally.. but my judgement aside (because it's irrelevant) I'd guess the suggestion of some water and apparent refusal of more alcohol - well that's how the crew member (possibly CSM) chose to deal with it.

I know I was on one flight I think BNE-MEL so just a 2h flight, I'd struck up a convo with my seatmate and we were having a good old yack and sharing some wines during the flight. CSM approached us and suggested some water and I took the hint, and the water. I don't tink we were annoying or OTT or even close to tipsy, just having a great conversation - but I was drinking. I had no problem with the approach (and incidently they did top us up, even on descent, so I think it was more a thoughtful gesture as much as a hmm maybe you want to pace yourselves a bit). Crew were great, no issue at all and certainly no offence. In fact it might have been that flight that I was surprised to be offered a refil. I may have actually just said OK but just half or something.

Different crew handle these kinds of things differently and it's very much a subjective thing at times - specially if you want to avoid on a longer flight things going sour.

 

[Choosethedrew]

To me that is such boorish kind of behaviour.. possibly acceptable at some sort of club or something but it's just "hey waiter serve me now" which has a certain sort of attitude I wouldn't be too impressed with personally.. but my judgement aside (because it's irrelevant) I'd guess the suggestion of some water and apparent refusal of more alcohol - well that's how the crew member (possibly CSM) chose to deal with it.

I know I was on one flight I think BNE-MEL so just a 2h flight, I'd struck up a convo with my seatmate and we were having a good old yack and sharing some wines during the flight. CSM approached us and suggested some water and I took the hint, and the water. I don't tink we were annoying or OTT or even close to tipsy, just having a great conversation - but I was drinking. I had no problem with the approach (and incidently they did top us up, even on descent, so I think it was more a thoughtful gesture as much as a hmm maybe you want to pace yourselves a bit). Crew were great, no issue at all and certainly no offence. In fact it might have been that flight that I was surprised to be offered a refil. I may have actually just said OK but just half or something.

Different crew handle these kinds of things differently and it's very much a subjective thing at times - specially if you want to avoid on a longer flight things going sour.

It’s very rude and dismissive behaviour I agree, but it is not the same as drunkenness, which is what it was passed off as.

I was kind of surprised at how it was handled to be honest. I would have expected some kind of deescalation, perhaps use of humour, to defuse the situation. Perhaps they could have said “would you like more ice as you seem to love shaking it” but I felt it could have been handled more deftly.

Presumably the point of stopping alcohol service is to avoid an air rage incident but accusing someone of being drunk when they were actually rude seems a little inflammatory to me and not likely to deescalate.

 

[lovestotravel]

Why would any QF staff be happy. Cost cutting left right and centre and crew getting move to lower pay and worse conditions.

Can't blame them

 

[oz_mark]

It’s very rude and dismissive behaviour I agree, but it is not the same as drunkenness, which is what it was passed off as.

I was kind of surprised at how it was handled to be honest. I would have expected some kind of deescalation, perhaps use of humour, to defuse the situation. Perhaps they could have said “would you like more ice as you seem to love shaking it” but I felt it could have been handled more deftly.

Presumably the point of stopping alcohol service is to avoid an air rage incident but accusing someone of being drunk when they were actually rude seems a little inflammatory to me and not likely to deescalate.

Was there a situation to defuse?

 

[Quickstatus]

certainly no offence

And red flags tend to go up if offence is taken.
Arguing over alcohol is only likely to entrench the RSA and is never a good look.

It's an aluminium tube travelling at 900kmh and 40,000 feet. The expected behaviour is very different to Carlisle St, Melbourne etc

Accepting RSA recommendations is more likely to get the alcohol service reinstated than having a blue over how much you've had.

 

[RichardMEL]

True. you can't easily ask a problem customer to leave, have a bouncer toss them out or call the cops in an extreme situation so it's all about mitigating things before they get out of hand.

(how many youtubes are out there of "drunk passenger does xyz on plane"?)

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I'm not surprised by any of this.
A lot of QF domestic FAs have a very bad attitude towards customers, especially long serving FAs.
It's chalk and cheese with QF international in my experience.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The baseline recommendation is that 1 standard drink takes close to an hour to exit the system. So on a four hour flight, if a pax has had 4 standard drinks, they *technically* be refused service on the grounds of # of drinks/hour. However, the food consumed along with the drink should be taken into consideration. And there is the whole discussion on how booze affects when on air, in a metal tube, cabin pressuer, etc etc.

I thought it was two drinks in the first hour, then one drink per hour after that? One drink per hour from the outset the person would have barely touched the sides!

But I’m not sure RSA is the issue… QF regularly - almost universally in my observation - hands out two bottles of wine per pax on a SYD-MEL.. that’s 3.8 standard drinks in ~40-45 minutes (allowing for cart set up etc at the start of the flight). The passenger next to me on my last flight refused the second bottle and was told to ‘take it anyway, it’s good for cooking’.

 

[PERLHR]

Well, moot point as they are running the show. In reality we don't know the true circumstances. What appears to be might not be the case. I've had Jetstar run out of food in a non full J cabin on an international flight. We had no lunch or dinner. 12 hour flight. They finally scabbed up a small Y meal. We don't fly with them anymore. It's our choice. They couldn't care.

Actually I kinda beg to differ. They are not running the show long term. The paying pax is and you elude to this...choice.. They go elsewhere where possible if they have bad experiences, at least if they fly regularly. So really they the crew may not care less (quite likely I agree) but when they have no job at the end of the day ...for me...I'm just trying to use Qantas vouchers and all my flying is now with Virgin.

 

[ferntree]

Well I get rather tired of that excuse as if it makes it ok. It's not ok and nobody is asking them if they want to be in the service industry.

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying this excused or justified the unsatisfactnory level of service ... only thatb it might explain it.

 

[RichardMEL]

I thought it was two drinks in the first hour, then one drink per hour after that? One drink per hour from the outset the person would have barely touched the sides!

But I’m not sure RSA is the issue… QF regularly - almost universally in my observation - hands out two bottles of wine per pax on a SYD-MEL.. that’s 3.8 standard drinks in ~40-45 minutes (allowing for cart set up etc at the start of the flight). The passenger next to me on my last flight refused the second bottle and was told to ‘take it anyway, it’s good for cooking’.

handing out BOTTLES of wine? Do you mean glasses? I'm a bit confused.

I haven't seen a bottle handed out for awhile (probably got one maybe 5-6 years ago). certainly not every flight

 

[RichardMEL]

I hesitate to say this given I will be branded as being with QF marketing (again!) but I think there's some generalisation going on here about crews. Not disputing anecdotes and experiences of posters here - some of whom fly a lot (as I do) but frankly I really have rarely seen this apparent attitude of non seervice on MANY domestic flights. Yeah, there's been one or two for sure.. but I wouldn't say it's common (yes, in my experience).. and I'm not linking this observation to my status, because I'm thinking of entire cabin service in J. Shorter flights like MEL-ADL/CBR/SYD get a bit hard because yeah, you only get say 40-45min useable time n the air for service (specially going east) to serve a cabin - often by the time, on a 737, the meal has been dished up to row 3 it's nearing top of descent. Some flights yeah crew basically then clear trays etc. Some times Y FA's come up and offer more pours and to assist, sometimes not.. and on longer sectors say 2+ hours, I've found in general refills are offered at regular intervals on most flights.

Are their "bad eggs" or those with a bad attitude out there? sure. is it common? well... I want to say it's perhaps not as widespread as it may seem. None of us are on hundreds of services a day so of course how can we really know what's going on, but, I do fly QF a reasonable amount, others here fly much more... and I find overall service levels (given what little they have to work with) to be pretty decent.

I understand others will disagree based on their own experiences and observations, and that's fair enough too

 

[MEL_Traveller]

handing out BOTTLES of wine? Do you mean glasses? I'm a bit confused.

I haven't seen a bottle handed out for awhile (probably got one maybe 5-6 years ago). certainly not every flight

Mini bottles! Served in the evenings… after 5? You get one with your snack… or a beer. Then they pass out seconds around the time they come to clear away the food wrapping.

Each bottle is around 1.7-1.9 standard drinks according to the label.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

..l only get say 40-45min useable time n the air for service (specially going east) to serve a cabin - often by the time, on a 737, the meal has been dished up to row 3 it's nearing top of descent.

I’ve noticed QF meal service has been much quicker lately! The last three flights SYD-MEL had business class served well and truly before top of descent… full cabins every time, both the 737 and a330. Feels much more relaxed these days.

 

[RichardMEL]

Mini bottles! Served in the evenings… after 5? You get one with your snack… or a beer. Then they pass out seconds around the time they come to clear away the food wrapping.

Each bottle is around 1.7-1.9 standard drinks according to the label.

oh wait I assumed J but this sounds like Y? makes more sense now

 

[MEL_Traveller]

oh wait I assumed J but this sounds like Y? makes more sense now

Yes! Main cabin

 

[servicerequired]

I fly QF Link weekly, and with varying crews, have noticed definitely an increased focus and mention of RSA ... maybe its the trainees who have been crewing the Dash 8 300s of late, but last year as an example, several flights where FAs were questioning pax whether they were driving, banging on about their RSA responsibilities etc etc ... all in the course of the wine service.

However! A welcome change last week, very lucky to be blessed with an experienced QF Link crew, and we had one of the FAs chanting 'happy hour' down the aisle with two bottles of wine ... light hearted and a bit of fun, but much better than the trainees!

 

[Quickstatus]

happy hour

questioning pax whether they were driving

What's the liability if any for the company if the happy hour pax gets pinged by RBT?