Slightly odd crew SYD - PER

[MEL_Traveller]

What's the liability if any for the company if the happy hour pax gets pinged by RBT?

I think both the server and company can face sanctions. If a member of crew had their ability to serve alcohol revoked it might make it difficult for them to work?

Don't know if there is any liability towards the person consuming the alcohol if they are within reasonable bands of drinking and not clearly intoxicated?

 

[Mattg]

I've been asked on evening VA J flights whether I would be driving at the other end (I wasn't, so the wine then flowed freely). No offence taken and I actually appreciated the thought.

 

[PERLHR]

Well, moot point as they are running the show. In reality we don't know the true circumstances. What appears to be might not be the case. I've had Jetstar run out of food in a non full J cabin on an international flight. We had no lunch or dinner. 12 hour flight. They finally scabbed up a small Y meal. We don't fly with them anymore. It's our choice. They couldn't care.

True, however in a completely different scenario I've had BA top up champagne well into the decent after serving up quite a bit during a short flight (and popping a few small bottles into my hands to take away with me) and additionally providing plastic tumbler (so they can take away the glass) so that you can hold on it during landing. Different approaches and all that.

 

[Pushka]

True, however in a completely different scenario I've had BA top up champagne well into the decent after serving up quite a bit during a short flight (and popping a few small bottles into my hands to take away with me) and additionally providing plastic tumbler (so they can take away the glass) so that you can hold on it during landing. Different approaches and all that.

The service we get in Emirates and Qatar far surpasses anything that Qantas has provided us, and that includes frequent upgrades. But even then we had one crew in Emirates who just didn't pass the grade.

 

[PERLHR]

I think both the server and company can face sanctions. If a member of crew had their ability to serve alcohol revoked it might make it difficult for them to work?

Don't know if there is any liability towards the person consuming the alcohol if they are within reasonable bands of drinking and not clearly intoxicated?

Seriously? You are kidding me right? I mean that then should mean every bar in every city should just stop serving people after what two drinks? That's ridiculous. People need to look after themselves and do what is right. I seriously believe that Australia is turning in to a nanny state!!

 

[Pushka]

Seriously? You are kidding me right? I mean that then should mean every bar in every city should just stop serving people after what two drinks? That's ridiculous. People need to look after themselves and do what is right. I seriously believe that Australia is turning in to a nanny state!!

Similar experiences have been reported by well known AFF'ers who have been refused drinks in the clubs with RSA as the reason. It's an easy way out.

 

[wicks21]

Flew SYD - PER on Friday 10th February in J and, unusually for QF in my experience, I found the crew a bit off and frosty from the get go and was wondering if this was the norm:

• After the meal, which has now been reduced to a very small amount of food for a transcon (even the bread has been trimmed down to one small slice of stale foccacia!) I asked if there was any more food going. The CC looked aghast and said that there was only one main course catered per passenger, which is not exactly answering the question, but OK
• I then asked whether there was any food left over from Y as that would be fine, the CC repeated that it was one meal loaded per passenger, so no. The CC was working in J not Y but somehow she immediately knew the food situation in Y. I kind of got the argument for a 12 seat J cabin but for 160+ seats or whatever it is in Y...
• I sensed this was going nowhere so politely thanked her anyway
• The CC gave out one glass of wine with the snacks and one with the meal and that was it save tea and coffee, no top ups offered or second run after the meal
• A little later, my partner went to the loo. Whilst waiting, the other CC asked whether he intended to eat his ice cream in a way that he described as somewhat accusatory. Just to be clear, it wasn't an enquiry as to whether he didn't like the flavour or whether there was something wrong with it. He replied that he was letting it thaw and yes he planned to eat it
• The strangest interaction happened to someone across the aisle; I would estimate (and I was awake for the whole flight) that he had a couple of glasses of wine with the meal and then a couple of spirits on ice, certainly the CC wasn't constantly back and forth with drinks like I have seen on some flights, usually BA. He had his earphones on and was engrossed in his device or the IFE. At no point did he look or act even remotely intoxicated or problematic in any way.
• Following a top up request about 3.5 hours in, I noticed the CC was kind of hesitant. She then came over with a small bottle of water and said something to the passenger.
• Obviously I do not know what happened as I did not hear the exchanges but it would appear that the CC refused the chap any more alcohol
• On disembarking at PER, I was walking behind said gent and I could see that he was walking in a perfectly straight line, as I could see the grout lines on the tiles

Clearly I do not know the ins and outs of what was dicussed but it would seem that the CC were a little over zealous in stopping alcohol service and were needlessly grumpy. Is this rare on QF?

Couldn't agree more. Just prior to Xmas I upgraded on a 330 Perth - Sydney. The 330 business class product is a sad husk of what it used to be on the transcontinental flights.
No pre meal drinks and poor choice of wine. Meals pretty substandard and gone are the niceties like the dessert trolley and port etc.
I lodged a complaint with Qantas and got a reply that "they'll ensure the right people look into it".
Rather sad experience. I have done dozens of J flights to Perth in the past 20 years and this is now a pathetic situation

 

[Eastwick20]

Perhaps it was what happened before he boarded?

I have no idea but possibly the lounge / ground crew had given the cabin crew a heads up that his alcohol consumption or behaviour before the flight required some extra monitoring while in flight?

 

[JackMiles]

Couldn't agree more. Just prior to Xmas I upgraded on a 330 Perth - Sydney. The 330 business class product is a sad husk of what it used to be on the transcontinental flights.
No pre meal drinks and poor choice of wine. Meals pretty substandard and gone are the niceties like the dessert trolley and port etc.
I lodged a complaint with Qantas and got a reply that "they'll ensure the right people look into it".
Rather sad experience. I have done dozens of J flights to Perth in the past 20 years and this is now a pathetic situation

Oh man, I had forgotten about the port with cheese/dessert! Good times. Agree with you on the meals. Unless my memory is faulty or my tastes have changed (both possible), the transcon meals used to be way nicer.

 

[Quickstatus]

I lodged a complaint with Qantas and got a reply that "they'll ensure the right people look into it".

The right people did look at it. They saturated the transcon market when VA1.0/Borghetti tried to up the ante. At one point even had 747-400 on the route. Then when VA could not sustain it, it was made fairer and simpler

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Seriously? You are kidding me right? I mean that then should mean every bar in every city should just stop serving people after what two drinks? That's ridiculous. People need to look after themselves and do what is right. I seriously believe that Australia is turning in to a nanny state!!

So I checked the RSA guidelines and it means you can't serve to people who are intoxicated. The definition of intoxicated is not based on the number of drinks but rather on the signs of intoxication such as behaviour and slurred speech.
If you serve to a person who is in toxicated then you have breached the guidelines and there are sanctions for that for the person doing the serving. That's the whole point of the guidelines.
I'm not sure if any liability extends to serving drinks to people who are not intoxicated who later get into a car.

 

[Ade]

I'm not sure if any liability extends to serving drinks to people who are not intoxicated who later get into a car.

This is where the person serving booze is expected to keep an eye on the customers.

Everyone working the shift is in a way responsible to ensure that patrons are safe, by doing small things like - say, someone clearing out the table, can take note of how intoxicated customers on the table are and report to the duty manager - the duty manager can then sort of walk by, make small talk and then assess for themselves.

Say, a barkeep going on their break should notify their replacements of any observations they've made during their shift etc. Something like - red cap on table 3, keep an eye please or table 5 are having a party, shots served 20 mins ago approx etc

As a response to getting into a car intoxicated - It really depends on how much drunk the customer is. Most cases, as long as the customer is within the premises of the venue (including car park) and if a customer is drunk/showing signs of intoxication, the staff can approach the customer and ask if they need help calling a cab or offer to call their mates or family to pick them up etc. But end of the day, it is on the customer to accept the help offered. There have been instances where the customers don't regard the assistance offered and drive off anyways. Sometimes customers sort of comply and give a phone number that can be called or accept to take a taxi etc.

 

[RichardMEL]

True, however in a completely different scenario I've had BA top up champagne well into the decent after serving up quite a bit during a short flight (and popping a few small bottles into my hands to take away with me) and additionally providing plastic tumbler (so they can take away the glass) so that you can hold on it during landing. Different approaches and all that.

Reminds me of SQ in 2004. I was in F on a 747-400 SIN-LHR. I'll never forget. It being SQ it was just fantastic and all, but we descended into LHR - it was Guy Fawkes night and fireworks were going off all over London as we flew over and into LHR. The crew literally left me with a GLASS of Dom as we flew low over the city with the dusk light and fireworks going off. it was.. quite magical.

those were the days....

 

[N860CR]

To the original post... just sounds like a typical miserable QF crew. I will admit there are some good ones out there, but there's plenty of angry, disengaged and frankly incompetent staff who don't belong in customer service roles anymore. It's certainly a behaviour not seen at most airlines serving this country.

Must be a miserable life for a lot of these people. Had a good one this week; CSM was at the front door "greeting" passengers onto the plane. Took issue with iPhone boarding passes not being displayed in a fully vertical position. This meant each passenger got a lovely "hold your phone up, I can't read upside down, can you?". That's the Spirit of Australia right there

 

[esseeeayeenn]

By the way alcohol has an increased effect during flights because of the reduced air pressure in the cabin.
So it takes fewer drinks to make you ... whatever sort of drunk you become.

 

[Peasant]

In my view the reality of RSA enforcement is a mix of art and science. A skilled crew will manage to handle this ably - and with discretion. That a fellow passenger noticed this lack of discretion suggests this could have been handled better, especially as there's no report of the passenger in question being belligerent or endangering the safety of the aircraft/fellow passengers.

I'd have no hesitation writing in to QF Customer Care to report that you were dissatisfied with various dimensions of the experience. You won't get much back, I'm quite sure, but at least it'll feed into the aggregated data that hopefully illustrates pax are less than satisfied with current product and service settings.

 

[Hvr]

In my view the reality of RSA enforcement is a mix of art and science.

As someone who has previously worked in a role where I had to be aware of RSA and if required make the call on whether or not someone needs to be cut off, I can confirm it is a fine call based on a range of subjective considerations. It is as noted above 'science and art'.

Sometimes the person makes it easier with their attitude towards a gentle suggestion. Other times it is a gut feeling that you don't want the matter to escalate and you 'make the call' early. Noting the matter referred to is in a place where ejection of the customer is impossible, i.e. mid-flight, then the FA has to make the call and continue the flight.

Even if the FA makes the wrong call to 'cut-off' the pax, it doesn't matter. They made the right call taking into account the circumstances as they understood them at the time. The FA is expected to make a decision and own it, their supervisor should support them unless the decision is egregiously wrong.

If they 'cut-off' too late or not at all then the potential for a bad outcome and the resultant consequences are increased.

It's easier to explain upwards why you called RSA early than late. It also needs to be remembered that the FA is there for our safety. The very first time I made the call to RSA someone my supervisor asked me to articulate why I made the decision. They agreed with me and I never had to explain again; if I made the call it was handled as I requested, and the person was 'cut-off' and if necessary removed.

If you get 'cut-off' then it is an opportunity to think about how you would handle it differently next time. If you don't have that awareness then you're basically confirming that the decision was correct.

 

[oz_mark]

In my view the reality of RSA enforcement is a mix of art and science. A skilled crew will manage to handle this ably - and with discretion. That a fellow passenger noticed this lack of discretion suggests this could have been handled better, especially as there's no report of the passenger in question being belligerent or endangering the safety of the aircraft/fellow passengers.

I would suggest in an aircraft environment it is nigh on impossible to guarantee no one would notice.

 

[stm1sydney]

To the original post... just sounds like a typical miserable QF crew.

Agreed. All this RSA discussion is just a distraction from the fundamental issue.

 

[qldflyer]

Qantas staff understanding of passenger behaviour and alcohol has gone south for a number of years. I now bring a six pack or bottle of wine of my own to avoid the scowl of a glorified hospitality worker.