So... what car do you guys drive when not flying?

[kelvedon]

Does it matter? The speed limit are so so so low in Aussie and road discipline on the roads the worst i observed and encountered you are luck if you ever get to 120km an hour. Awful place to drive!! No ping in having a big engine!

IMO the dangerous overtaking moves I’ve witnessed in Italy or France, and the 160kmph tailgating on the German autobahns makes us look like country vicars.

 

[pauly7]

IMO the dangerous overtaking moves I’ve witnessed in Italy or France, and the 160kmph tailgating on the German autobahns makes us look like country vicars.

English motorways right up there too

Back on topic, looking to replace one of our cars (BMW) thinking hybrid or electric - anyone got a Tesla?

 

[33kft]

anyone got a Tesla?

I bought a Tesla Model 3 back in September. It's a fantastic car. In fact, it is so popular with the family, it has replaced several interstate flights for us recently and rekindled the road trip bug within us. I wouldn't have even thought about driving interstate were it my last car (fuel alone would have been more than a sale fare). however with the Tesla we're paying a lot less to do the drive, and hardly doing any of the driving as it practically drives itself.

Given my daughter is a lot more settled in the car than on a flight, it's pretty much ideal.

 

[pauly7]

I bought a Tesla Model 3 back in September. It's a fantastic car. In fact, it is so popular with the family, it has replaced several interstate flights for us recently and rekindled the road trip bug within us. I wouldn't have even thought about driving interstate were it my last car (fuel alone would have been more than a sale fare). however with the Tesla we're paying a lot less to do the drive, and hardly doing any of the driving as it practically drives itself.

Given my daughter is a lot more settled in the car than on a flight, it's pretty much ideal.

Thank you, on the list.

 

[JessicaTam]

...

We end up with a somewhat strange list of possibles. At one end, Tesla 3. Jag XE P300. Smaller SUVs, perhaps Jag E-Pace. New Evoque seems priced by the fairies. MB, new GLB perhaps. RS Q3, though I suspect that it would be seat and ride challenged. And at the far end of the scale, maybe the new Defender 90.

Of course, living in the country means that the spare tyre isn't just there for good looks. Very few vehicles come with a real one these days (but some do). Many allow you to carry one if you wish (like my current S3). But, I'm being surprised to find a large number of vehicles that don't even have sufficient space for that. Run flats aren't a good option.

I bought a Tesla Model 3 back in September. It's a fantastic car. In fact, it is so popular with the family, it has replaced several interstate flights for us recently and rekindled the road trip bug within us. I wouldn't have even thought about driving interstate were it my last car (fuel alone would have been more than a sale fare). however with the Tesla we're paying a lot less to do the drive, and hardly doing any of the driving as it practically drives itself.

Given my daughter is a lot more settled in the car than on a flight, it's pretty much ideal.

I was just about to post about the Tesla 3 for jb, then saw your post. How do you find the fit and finish? Does it have a spare tyre?

 

[RSD]

I hit a major milestone birthday in a few weeks, and I don't really know why but I decided that to celebrate I would do something that's probably a bit crazy for me - took me a while to decide but eventually settled on buying a Can-Am Ryker - have never ridden a motorcycle at all so its quite out there for me...!

 

[33kft]

I was just about to post about the Tesla 3 for jb, then saw your post. How do you find the fit and finish?

Fit and finish is a known problem for the Model 3 - it's certainly been something to be wary of. I received my Model 3 during the big rush to deliver all of the Right Hand Drive models before the end of quarter (so a mid-september delivery before an end-september reporting period) and at that point in time they were pretty unapologetically pushing the vehicles out of the door, they were even doing sunday deliveries when I picked mine up.

I had 2 issues. One was a rear passenger door seal that was a bit stiff, meaning every few attempts at closing it would only half-close the first time, and the other being a poorly aligned passenger side window, which left a small gap that caused some pretty noticeable wind noise, especially given the lack of engine noise to cancel it out. I loaded up the app and snapped a few photos of these issues and logged a service call, and they contacted me a day or two later to tell me they'd move my service appointment forward to a few days later to fix these. I dropped the car off at their Richmond service centre and they realigned these, gave it a wash and charged it up for me, so I was quite pleased.

Around the time I picked it up there were a lot of fit and finish complaints, however they handled them all essentially the way they did mine (ship the car before qtr end, schedule a service and fix). I very much doubt there would be many residual issues now that the delivery push has died down and they are catching these issues pre-delivery now.

Does it have a spare tyre?

No spare tyre. They have a puncture repair kit (the goo kit) which is highly discouraged as it effectively destroys the tyres, and they aren't cheap (I think the Pilot Sport 4s they ship with are $400 each). If you're in warranty, you have free roadside assistance, they'll come and fit a loaner tyre while you get yours repaired/replaced at your cost.

Roadside Assistance | Tesla Support Australia

Tesla Roadside Assistance is committed to providing you with immediate roadside services, 24/7 365 days a year.

www.tesla.com

 

[jb747]

I bought a Tesla Model 3 back in September. It's a fantastic car. In fact, it is so popular with the family, it has replaced several interstate flights for us recently and rekindled the road trip bug within us. I wouldn't have even thought about driving interstate were it my last car (fuel alone would have been more than a sale fare). however with the Tesla we're paying a lot less to do the drive....

What did you have previously? What are you comparing it with?

......and hardly doing any of the driving as it practically drives itself.

That's actually a negative for me. The MB sales person had trouble understanding why I was disinterested in their fancy cruise control. Mostly because it would never be turned on.

Fit and finish is a known problem for the Model 3 - it's certainly been something to be wary of. I received my Model 3 during the big rush to deliver all of the Right Hand Drive models before the end of quarter (so a mid-september delivery before an end-september reporting period) and at that point in time they were pretty unapologetically pushing the vehicles out of the door, they were even doing sunday deliveries when I picked mine up.

Whilst I haven't had a good look at one in a dealership (or whatever they are called), I crawled over two 3's that were at a paint shop being 'fixed' prior to delivery. I found quite a few issues...that were not on the list to be fixed. Basically, the build quality and panel fit was not Audi like. The lack of dealerships to actually fix issues seems a tab problematic too.

No spare tyre. They have a puncture repair kit (the goo kit) which is highly discouraged as it effectively destroys the tyres, and they aren't cheap (I think the Pilot Sport 4s they ship with are $400 each). If you're in warranty, you have free roadside assistance, they'll come and fit a loaner tyre while you get yours repaired/replaced at your cost.

PS4s can be had for half of that price. That's what my Audi is wearing at the moment.

The seats were not something I'd want to live with. I understand that seats are very personal, but too many years of sitting in aircraft coughpits has left me very particular about what I want for my seating. A seat that I love, may well be something that others hate, and vice versa.

Basically it's a city car, that would probably work well close to the major interstate highways. I like the concept a lot, but I doubt that it really works for me. I can see why people love them though.

 

[33kft]

I appreciate the perspective @jb747, however I think this is a fairly simple situation. If I can be so presumptuous to say this, I think what you want is an Audi.

The Tesla Model 3 is just plain not intended to be just like your current vehicle with an electric drivetrain. There are cars for that purpose, such as the Mercedes EQC, which is literally a GLC with an electric drivetrain, and assumedly plenty of other EV models from legacy manufacturers based on existing production lines on the market, manufactured by brands which specialise in the specific details you're focused on (fit, finish, comfort, styling). These companies have dominated that market for decades and no doubt will continue to.

It would not make sense for a non incumbent auto manufacturer with no existing internal combustion drivetrain models to manufacture a car based on legacy designs - anyone truly looking at a Tesla but not looking to change their current driving format is frankly looking in the wrong place. I have the benefit of a no transmission hump in the rear of my car, which allowed me to take my 10 person tent camping on a 500km trip last weekend, with the family without even needing any bootspace (until the young one's legs are a bit longer, anyway). I have extra storage due to no engine, no exhaust, and I don't have any scheduled servicing:

Vehicle Maintenance | Tesla Support Australia

Unlike gasoline cars, Tesla vehicles require no traditional oil changes, fuel filters, spark plug replacements or emission checks.

www.tesla.com

I have no engine or road noise which makes the experience a very pleasant one, and I paid absolutely nothing for the journey (charged it up for free at my council's ChargeFox DC fast charger before I left, and charged it at the powered campsite where we set up our tent and equipment). We even sat and watched netflix in it at night with the climate control on and a bottle of wine, seats reclined back, and none of this requires a running engine to power it. it's a very versatile vehicle.

Tesla vehicles borrow a lot less from your traditional vehicles than most EVs and hybrids do. The Model 3 has no dash cluster, offers one-pedal driving with regenerative braking and doesn't use physical keys, but rather bluetooth on your mobile phone. It has a glass roof and what is an engine bay in most ICE vehicles is used for additional storage. All controls are managed through the touchscreen. It's a true computer on wheels. It has the ability drive across the carpark to you without a driver, and the ability to navigate to your destination automatically. I bought it knowing (and wanting) these features. It is not a drop in replacement for an ICE car, it's a bundle of new technology in a significantly different form factor.

It's also quick as hell. My car can do 0 to 100 in 3.4 seconds. Comparable vehicles (on a performance basis, not overall vehicle) would be:

• Audi R8 (MSRP $300K)
• Lamborghini Huracan 610-4 Spyder (MSRP $470K)
• Mercedes E Class 63 S AMG (MSRP $220K)

I would not be able to afford this level of performance if it were not this particular vehicle, MSRP $100K. Nothing else exists in its class with those numbers.

The comparison between a first generation mid-market EV and a nth generation european internal combustion engine vehicle is at best a stretch, as a large proportion of the price of this vehicle goes into the battery. All of the rest of the manufacturing has been reduced in price to make it affordable.

What did you have previously? What are you comparing it with?

I honestly didn't compare it with a thing, the above is the first time I've drawn any comparison whatsoever with another vehicle.

What I have stated is that it's a fantastic vehicle, and I have come to that conclusion without needing to compare with previous vehicles that I've owned. SInce you asked however, I am coming from an Audi S3. I'm not really looking to draw too many comparisons between the two, as I think you'll see from my statements above that I don't consider them to be lateral competitors. I think the Model 3 is an entirely different vehicle (and I like the driving experience of an EV, I would not go back to an Internal Combustion Engine as the properties and driving experience of an EV suit me much more).

Whilst I haven't had a good look at one in a dealership (or whatever they are called), I crawled over two 3's that were at a paint shop being 'fixed' prior to delivery. I found quite a few issues...that were not on the list to be fixed. Basically, the build quality and panel fit was not Audi like. The lack of dealerships to actually fix issues seems a tab problematic too.

I've acknowledged fit and finish deficiencies above. That said, I have seen no evidence that Tesla has not repaired these defects, nor do I believe australian consumer law would be on their side if they did not. Mine were all resolved to my satisfaction so I can do no more than state my experience. The fact that you saw these deficiencies being addressed pre-delivery just suggests they have improved since my delivery, where I had to schedule a follow up to resolve them.

That's actually a negative for me. The MB sales person had trouble understanding why I was disinterested in their fancy cruise control. Mostly because it would never be turned on.

I mean this in the most respectful way, @jb747, but this car is primarily for people who want new technology (EV, touchscreen driven autopilot, mobile phone based control, always-on connectivity). These all come standard. They are options in other manufacturer's vehicles but there's not a Tesla around that doesn't update itself over the Internet regularly and that isn't 24/7 connected via 4G. There's no configuration where you don't have these features.

The Tesla Model 3 has 8 cameras across the body which are used with a custom designed AI engine to provide self driving capabilities. It's a little bit more than the lidar-based assisted cruise control that MB and other manufacturers provide. It's a fundamental part of the vehicle design (and also 8 built in always-on dashcams which act as security cameras when parked in Sentry mode).

PS4s can be had for half of that price. That's what my Audi is wearing at the moment.

I think you might be referring to a different model. First, these are not stock PS4S but the acoustic versions which have foam inside the tyre for reducing road noise, specifically because EVs don't have engine noise and so there's a benefit to be derived from dampening the road noise to provide a near-silent cabin. The configuration is a Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 235/35/20 acoustic:

• Tyroola has it for $419: MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S 235/35ZR20 (92Y) Tyroola.com.au
• Tyresales has them for $400 each or 4 for $375 each: MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4S 235/45R20 100Y Tyres | Tyresales
• Tyrepoint has them for $427 each: MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4S 235/35R20 92Y Tyre

None of the above appear to be the acoustic version that come with the Tesla Model 3, but I don't think I'd bother spending the extra $$ on dropping a decibel or two when I next replace. Anyway, I think any of them at half of the $400 that I quoted must be off the back of a dodgy unmarked van somewhere

Basically it's a city car, that would probably work well close to the major interstate highways.

Nonsense. The performance and long range models have a 520km range, and the base model ($66K before on-roads) has a 370km range. They can be charged at Tesla Superchargers at a rate of up to 250kW, which is a charging rate of 1600km of range per hour - you can do the math on how fast you could recharge on a trip greater than 400km. Unlike an internal combustion engine, they can be charged overnight at home, meaning the range is specifically key for long-distance highway driving. Plenty of people are driving these in plenty of scenarios, to suggest they are all city drivers is laughable. You can join the Tesla Model 3 facebook group yourself and see reports from those covering 150+KM round trips daily without an issue, no need to take my word for it.

Whilst all of the points above are valid for those considering an EV and the changes to their driving experience, this one is just straight up wrong. Having owned the car for almost 6 months now and driven it over 10,000KM, including from Melbourne to Brisbane and back for free (thanks Tesla Supercharger credits), this car performs as well as any other I've owned when it comes to long distance driving.

 

[JohnM]

Thanks, @33kft, that is really informative from an actual user.

Philip King reviewed the Tesla 3 Performance AWD in today's Oz. No disrespect to him, but he simply did not capture the practicalities and draw out the comparatives with ICE vehicles in the way that you have.

 

[33kft]

Thanks @JohnM. I think it's really only possible to do the Model 3 justice if I avoid comparing it line for line against the traditional car design we're used to and highlight some of the new features and ideas that are emerging in car tech. A lot of reviews need points of reference to do comparisons and usually that works against the Tesla (simply because it's different).

I agree with you on the article missing a lot of the features and benefits, I managed to find it here: NoCookies | The Australian

I think by and large it was fair, just short on detail. Being a Tesla owner there are a few things that I would disagree with in his piece - chief of those is the suggestion that there should be a heads-up display in line of sight. The first impression of the model 3 for most people is that the dash cluster that we are used to is no longer there, and leads to the view that it should be re-introduced as a heads up display.

The reality is that the screen makes a HUD unnecessary, and yet is much more flexible than a HUD in that it offers touch screen interactivity and navigation as well as telemetry, all without impeding visibility. The curved dash is gone and in its place is significantly improved forward visibility, and whilst the instrument cluster of speed, tacho, and lights may be gone from behind the wheel, they're on the screen directly within the drivers line of sight. Here's a picture of the driver's view to illustrate:



The example above is parked so you can't see speed, but it is prominently displayed in the corner of the screen on the driver's side. In this case this is a LHD vehicle but for our market it is flipped, including the screen layout, so speed is top right of the screen, and looks like this:



So really, there's nothing a HUD would give that isn't available prominently on the screen in line of site already and using the screen feels immediately natural - a HUD would be redundant.

The other misleading part of the review was that the author described being concerned about the pillars impeding visibility. To me it seems an understatement of what the design delivers - it's very minimalist, the result of the flat dash without instrument cluster and glass roof means that you have an almost unimpeded view from the dash 180 degrees up above you, giving you a sensation that is vastly different to that of the regular vehicle design. I couldn't do it justice describing it, but the picture below gives you a pretty good idea of the view from the cabin - it surprises me that limited visibility would rate a mention at all.



Overall, I think the best way to get a feel for one is to test drive it - I'd read a few articles before I drove it and never really "got it" - it just sounded like a cut-down barebones car, until I drove it. The sensation of the smooth, linear torque of a silent electric motor, the art of regenerative braking slowing the vehicle to a stop without needing to touch the brakes, the simplicity of the whole thing (no gears, no handbrake, no buttons and switches) just gives a finesse to driving that makes going back to an ICE car difficult. I was reluctant to believe I'd be a convert at first. The natural assumption is that it is all a compromise, that you need to settle for less with an EV because it saves you money or saves the planet or whatever reason people think drives adoption, but once you drive it, you quickly find that it's a better driving experience and you get a very strong feeling that this is the future of driving.

 

[JohnM]

I also think it's interesting that, given most people are right-handed, that we in the RHD car parts of the world are now essentially on the wrong side of history with so many touch screen controls. Not impossible to work, but not as fully fluid as they would be in LHD vehicles, I think.

I have been torn over the last couple of years trying to figure out what vehicle to get.

I like my Audi A4 Quattro. It's easy around the city and good on long runs in the country, and good on dirt. I've taken it places that, ahem, I'm sure the designers and engineers at Ingolstadt did not envisage it to go. No full-size spare has always been a worry and I was caught once out in the WA Goldfields having to limp about 180 clicks (a third on dirt) into Kalgoorlie on the temporary spare after staking a tyre.

That was interesting in that the tyres were due for replacement and my intention was to do that a few weeks later back in Perth at the next service. I obtained a used tyre of the right size in Kal for about $70 fitted that got me back to Perth and then I did the full replacement, so at least I didn't waste a partly-used tyre and end up with a non-uniformly worn set.

If it had run-flats or a goo-kit, then I would never had bought it.

I was leaning to a 4WD such as a Prado but, despite advancing years, I don't think I'm quite ready for a lot of 'grey nomad'-type touring yet. The recent Prado engine issues, and DPFs/AdBlue messing with predominantly city running of so many similar vehicles these days is very concerning. It's a major dilemma.

I want something that will take me bush well beyond the limits of the A4, but I fear not regularly enough at this stage to overcome worries about DPFs clogging and so on. For a trip on the Canning Stock Route a couple of years ago, I rented a LandCruiser Troopy. Basic, but bulletproof. That worked out well but that trip was at the more extreme end of the sort of bush driving I am generally likely to do.

My recently-retired brother has had the same dilemma but needed something to tow his camper trailer. He's just opted for a Pajero Sport. It seemed better value for money than a Prado and without the scary engine issues that have plagued that vehicle.

Maybe I need to buy a small hybrid for day-to-day driving around the city and to places in easy reach on sealed roads, and just rent a 4WD for bush trips. But I do like something with a bit of get up and go when I head to Margaret River or Kalgoorlie or such-like - and I have driven the A4 to NSW and back...

The Tesla3 sounds the goods, but I don't want to outlay that sort of coin for something that won't take me fully out bush.

Maybe I should buy a pre-DPF 4WD and do it up?... But, then, I like the modern electronic fruit and accoutrements.

Gaaahhh, decisions, decisions...

I guess I'll just have to continue spending a good part of the year travelling overseas while I continue to dither over this dilemma. Six months away last year meant a new vehicle could not be justified.

Anyone else facing this same struggle?

 

[Saltywings]

English motorways right up there too

Back on topic, looking to replace one of our cars (BMW) thinking hybrid or electric - anyone got a Tesla?

I drive a Tesla Model S P100D (2018). Not gonna repeat @33kft's useful information here. Suffice it to say, approaching EVs with an ICE mindset is going to lead to some useful comparisons and many not-so-useful ones (mainly around 'fuelling' and maintenance/upkeep).

Outside of specialist uses (e.g. trucking), I can't see myself ever getting into an ICE again. For what it's worth, I also barely use Autopilot (their fancy cruise control) outside of boring highway driving.

BTW @pauly7 not sure if you're interested in an S or 3 - the two cares are sufficiently different to be compared on their own merits.

 

[boomy]

Got the new model Volvo XC90 from Hertz.
Very impressed by the interior design, quality and the drive itself. Previously I didn’t think much of this brand but I must say the XC90 impressed me more than Audi Q7 and BNW X5 which I assume are the biggest competitors in this category.

 

[Quickstatus]

Maybe I should buy a pre-DPF 4WD and do it up?...

My 2013 LC200 (the one up thread with the interaction With Big Grey) is a non DPF. For this reason, I intend to keep it as long as possible and also the massive 4.5L V8 only produces 200kW. Not overtuned like most other engines

It only does highway, with towing.
Surprisingly the stealership says the auto fluid never needs changing.

No run flats, space savers, or foam kits for me. I carry a full-size spare for the VW golf. The wheel well fits a full size spare but required the rear trim to have a cutout which was done properly by an auto trim guy.

 

[jb747]

I appreciate the perspective @jb747, however I think this is a fairly simple situation. If I can be so presumptuous to say this, I think what you want is an Audi.

Firstly thanks for taking the time to write a lengthy response. I knew that I was probably tickling the tiger's tail....

Funnily enough, I probably don't want the Audi. It's just that I have an S3, and any vehicle I buy will be replacing that. The S3 has many positives, but the dealer experience is a negative. I've seen their new corporate interiors, and overall don't like them. They do have panel gaps down to a very fine art though. Probably the only Audi that I really liked the thought of was the RS3, and, as my wife tells me, I'd probably be sick of it after a couple of weeks. Audi seats...I do not like at all though, and I've had a couple of different variations. Audi are also sadly in the black interiors camp, with little to no possible variation. Actually, thinking about it, the noise is about all I do like, and apparently the new model RS3 doesn't have that either.

Tesla vehicles borrow a lot less from your traditional vehicles than most EVs and hybrids do. The Model 3 has no dash cluster, offers one-pedal driving with regenerative braking and doesn't use physical keys, but rather bluetooth on your mobile phone. It has a glass roof and what is an engine bay in most ICE vehicles is used for additional storage. All controls are managed through the touchscreen. It's a true computer on wheels. It has the ability drive across the carpark to you without a driver, and the ability to navigate to your destination automatically. I bought it knowing (and wanting) these features. It is not a drop in replacement for an ICE car, it's a bundle of new technology in a significantly different form factor.

I'm well acquainted with technology, but I'm not necessarily a fan of it for it's own sake. One of my cars has a HUD, and I'd far prefer that to any need to look at an offset screen. The reality of such a simple dash probably has as much to do with ease of manufacture as it does being futuristic.

It's also quick as hell. My car can do 0 to 100 in 3.4 seconds. Comparable vehicles (on a performance basis, not overall vehicle) would be:

• Audi R8 (MSRP $300K)
• Lamborghini Huracan 610-4 Spyder (MSRP $470K)
• Mercedes E Class 63 S AMG (MSRP $220K)

I would not be able to afford this level of performance if it were not this particular vehicle, MSRP $100K. Nothing else exists in its class with those numbers.

Yes, they are extremely quick. But I've driven an R8, and I didn't like it, so performance isn't everything. And performance isn't just acceleration either.

The comparison between a first generation mid-market EV and a nth generation european internal combustion engine vehicle is at best a stretch, as a large proportion of the price of this vehicle goes into the battery. All of the rest of the manufacturing has been reduced in price to make it affordable.

The vehicles that are being compared are all approximately the same price. Surely the makeup of that price doesn't really matter to the end user.

I've acknowledged fit and finish deficiencies above. That said, I have seen no evidence that Tesla has not repaired these defects, nor do I believe australian consumer law would be on their side if they did not. Mine were all resolved to my satisfaction so I can do no more than state my experience. The fact that you saw these deficiencies being addressed pre-delivery just suggests they have improved since my delivery, where I had to schedule a follow up to resolve them.

What I saw being fixed were paint issues. They were not looking at panel fit. And I don't think that would be addressed by consumer law. That's just the way they are.

I think you might be referring to a different model. First, these are not stock PS4S but the acoustic versions which have foam inside the tyre for reducing road noise, specifically because EVs don't have engine noise and so there's a benefit to be derived from dampening the road noise to provide a near-silent cabin.

Obviously I was. I wasn't aware of the 'acoustic' designation.

Nonsense

. The performance and long range models have a 520km range, and the base model ($66K before on-roads) has a 370km range. They can be charged at Tesla Superchargers at a rate of up to 250kW, which is a charging rate of 1600km of range per hour - you can do the math on how fast you could recharge on a trip greater than 400km. Unlike an internal combustion engine, they can be charged overnight at home, meaning the range is specifically key for long-distance highway driving. Plenty of people are driving these in plenty of scenarios, to suggest they are all city drivers is laughable. You can join the Tesla Model 3 facebook group yourself and see reports from those covering 150+KM round trips daily without an issue, no need to take my word for it.

I haven't seen any reviews that have actually been able to achieve the claimed range (and by the same token, reviews never achieve the ICE makers' fuel consumption figures either). Using Tesla's own planning map, some drives that I do regularly become difficult. The superchargers are a great idea, but the network needs to be a rather more extensive before their cars are viable for all needs. Destination chargers, are, of course, much more common, but are not the same thing either. Are there any 250kw chargers in Oz?

Believe it or not, I'd really like to be able to make it work for me, but I doubt that I can. The Model Y isn't far away, so perhaps that might be a better fit.

 

[Quickstatus]

How many kW is the long range T3 battery?

 

[33kft]

Yes, they are extremely quick. But I've driven an R8, and I didn't like it, so performance isn't everything. And performance isn't just acceleration either.

Agreed, I don't think it's the key feature of the car, it's more a nice sideshow. Although @Saltywings's P100D... can do 0 to 100 in 2.28 seconds and I can only imagine what that must be like to drive. I certainly wouldn't mind having that power on tap when I want/need it.

The vehicles that are being compared are all approximately the same price. Surely the makeup of that price doesn't really matter to the end user.

I don't think that's a fair statement. Plasma TVs were way more expensive than CRT when they were first released, so were mobile phones to the landline version. I understand someone not wanting to pay a premium to own the technology earlier than others, but I can't agree that the car should have every last trimming and feature so that it is entirely comparable to an ICE car that is 80 revisions down the same manufacturing line - there's a price associated with adopting new technologies.

I wanted to pay for a car that has features and flexibility that ICE cars don't have, and I did. You don't have to but you would need to recognise the rationale in why I'm not spending time comparing my new car to features available on legacy cars just because they make sense when working with that drivetrain/technology set. It's not a fair fight when the fight is by the legacy carmaker's rules.

Anyway, this is not a one-sided equation. I could just as easily demand that every other car in the class you are comparing to must have comparable acceleration before it could be considered. Sure, your seats might be a bit more comfy but I can swap those out - yet you need to pony up a minumum of $200K to compete with a 3.4s acceleration time. You can see the fallacy of false equivalence here, it's the sum of all pieces and not one or two.

Obviously I was. I wasn't aware of the 'acoustic' designation.

None of those $400 tyres I quoted you were the acoustic version hence my pointing out that the PS4S alone is $400 and that you'd have a hard time finding me a source for half the price, let alone one that matches the delivered spec (that I wouldn't actually seek out).

I haven't seen any reviews that have actually been able to achieve the claimed range (and by the same token, reviews never achieve the ICE makers' fuel consumption figures either).

I guess it depends on what your level of proof requires there. I regularly get within 85% of the published range but unlike an ICE it is difficult to prove it, because of the incremental charging you tend to do. In an ICE, you fill, drive and fill again which allows you to see exactly what range you get, whereas with an EV you'd need to charge to 90-100%, drive around and resist the urge to plug in again until you get close enough to 0 that you can then pro-rate the last 20% or so, otherwise if you try to do the calculation from 50% SOC people will just call it an estimation.

Running a tank from 100 to 0 is something you do in an ICE and not in an EV. Try resisting that free charge top up you get from the place you get your groceries just to prove you can do something you wouldn't normally do... you see the problem. Leaving it unplugged at home just seems silly to a lot of people - it's like driving to a service station instead of using the full tank of fuel you have at home.

That said I do have a photo around that I took after several drives where I managed to take it from 90% down to 7% SOC and record the trip (there's an automatic km since last charge trip meter) which if extrapolated out to the last 17% of the battery would see me within 30 or so km of the published range so I don't doubt it is quite achievable, I just very very rarely need to do it.

Most EV owners will have their car hooked up to something that pulls their data via the API like Stats for Tesla or TeslaFi which can log every drive (in incredible detail) and which have more than enough to prove the range possible. The problem, to be completely transparent with you, is there are very few people I'd be willing to share all my raw drive information with out there, so whilst I have the data to back it up (as do many Tesla drivers) I'd have to defer to a much more altruistic individual to open up their driving logs to the public.

I've largely stopped trying to prove that EVs can do what they say they can do. I understand why people are sceptical but I also understand that the people who do pose these questions often do so without having done any research but with preconcieved notions that again come from a very understandable place, but are frustrating to read as you're living the antithesis of these beliefs on a daily basis. Rather than putting myself out to prove that the cars can do what they say, I can only point people to facebook groups and forums of Tesla owners to see for themselves.

Post automatically merged: Feb 9, 2020

How many kW is the long range T3 battery?

Long range is 75kWh, whilst the Standard Range Plus (the lowest battery size) is 54kWh.

 

[tgh]

Super interesting discussion, thanks everyone.
In Norway last year I hired a hybrid Volvo V90awd.
With hud and part time piloting it was not a car I would choose to own (although swmbo has a Volvo )
The silence on ev was a strange experience and it was hard to notice when the petrol engine cut in.
The essential umbilical will always challenge but I do understand that some find it ok.

 

[Quickstatus]

While the technology inclusions in some cars are attractive, I actually want a car that has vinyl floors. Much easier to clean. But they don’t make them like that