Some ideas to enhance QF FF prog for PLATINUMS

[docjames]

Offically and legally that is. Don't see why they couldn't allow this, the fact is it does happen already. As it stands, it just not worthwhile for QF to pursue proof of relationship for every transfer made to a brother in law/ sister in law/ first cousin/ etc. So why not just make it legal?

I believe it's an ATO requirement.......

 

[anat0l]

I believe it's an ATO requirement.......

Well Velocity has the same restriction (family members only), however the feature is still more flexible than QF:

• You can transfer up to 4 times every year (cf. QF once)
• The site is ambiguous, but as I read it (family transfers aren't covered in the T&Cs), you can transfer minimum of 5,000 points each time and up to 100,000 points each time. So a maximum of 400,000 points can be divulged from your account each year.
• If a member dies, the points can be transferred out of their account. The executor of the deceased's estate needs to contact Velocity to make arrangements (cf. QF who will, upon notice of death, cancel the account and all points, thus requiring "roundabout" methods to salvage any balance).

 

[JohnK]

Here is a list of ideas to enhance the QFF program for Platinums

• The ability to pre-allocate exit rows free of charge at time of booking
• Remove the loyalty bonus and restore Upgrade Credits every 400 SCs (1 Upgrade Credit is enough to upgrade SYD-MEL/BNE, 3 Upgrade Credits is enough to upgrade SYD-SIN/BKK/HKG)
• Block middle seats and do not allocate these seats to lower status passengers if there are spare seats elsewhere in the cabin
• Platinums are offered op-ups before any op-ups are offered/given to lower status members

And some enhancements that are not likely to happen but would be nice

• Business class meals and amenities on international flights when sitting in economy or at least given first choice of economy class meals and business class amenities
• Request classic award seat to be available on any QF flight in any class if there are spare seats available

And some benefits to remove to allow these enhancements to take place

• Guaranteed full economy seat on full flights
• Priority tags on luggage (does not work on most flights)

 

[samh004]

Yes, the greet seems to be going the way of the Dodo again; I'm sure some memos with be fired across the aether soon enough.

On a contrasting note, travelling TT last month as Air NZ Gold Elites my wife* and I were visited no less than four times by different members of the CC.

*Air NZ GE's can gift GE status to one's co-habitational partner - they get GE status for Air NZ flights (not *G on *A however). This is a variation of QFF "Partner Gold".

I was thinking about something like this just last night, I don’t think giving a partner WP too would be such a stretch, as if they can’t make SG on their own they’re probably not flying often enough to abuse the status.

So perhaps a higher level above PG that’s PP, or just changing PG into PP. Either way, I think that’s a reward, at least for those with a partner.

 

[ejb]

I was thinking about something like this just last night, I don’t think giving a partner WP too would be such a stretch, as if they can’t make SG on their own they’re probably not flying often enough to abuse the status.

So perhaps a higher level above PG that’s PP, or just changing PG into PP. Either way, I think that’s a reward, at least for those with a partner.

I don't know other peoples situation but mrs ejb would find PP no better than PG as she never flies without me so status to her is only worth the extra points.

I would happily trade PG for a new level called "bonus WP". This would be an extra year to be used if you ever dropped below WP and would grant you one year extra of WP. This could create a nice buffer for those who fly lots over a coiuple of years and would reward you for all the miles you have done.

YMMV

ejb

 

[anat0l]

I was thinking about something like this just last night, I don’t think giving a partner WP too would be such a stretch, as if they can’t make SG on their own they’re probably not flying often enough to abuse the status.

So perhaps a higher level above PG that’s PP, or just changing PG into PP. Either way, I think that’s a reward, at least for those with a partner.

I don't know other peoples situation but mrs ejb would find PP no better than PG as she never flies without me so status to her is only worth the extra points.

I would happily trade PG for a new level called "bonus WP". This would be an extra year to be used if you ever dropped below WP and would grant you one year extra of WP. This could create a nice buffer for those who fly lots over a coiuple of years and would reward you for all the miles you have done.

As serfty mentioned, Air NZ Gold Elites are able to give their partners Gold Elite status (that is, top tier). The catch is that this is purely only NZ status; you can't exploit the partner GE for Star Alliance Gold benefits (so it won't help you get into an SQ lounge if you're flying Y without the "real" GE).

Air NZ Gold Elites are also eligible for Gold Elite gifts after they earn a certain number of status points (something like 2000-2500). Some of these gifts may include (from their website) a degustation dinner for two, a case of award winning wines, or an extra year of Gold Elite.

One thing to note though is that it is a lot harder to get Air NZ Gold Elite than it is to get QF WP (even if we take out the US methods).

The main contention people have with benefits, as it seems, is their utility. That is, if you can't use it, it's a useless benefit and should be removed. Now I'm sure there may not be many people here who find it useful to be able to get a Y seat at the last minute, nor are there people who have partners to give PG to (if they can even use it). But some people will find these useful (and it would be up to QF to determine whether they are actually seeing people exploit these privileges).

Rather equally, Air NZ Gold Elites get 5 complimentary Koru Valet vouchers, but they can only be used at AKL, WLG and CHC. To me, that's useless, but I'm sure there are plenty of Kiwis that might find it useful. I won't start commenting on the "free hotel upgrade voucher".

And for some of JohnK's suggestions:

The ability to pre-allocate exit rows free of charge at time of booking

That'd be nice. Only at the time of booking? (So if you decide later after booking is completed and done, you pay up?)

Remove the loyalty bonus and restore Upgrade Credits every 400 SCs (1 Upgrade Credit is enough to upgrade SYD-MEL/BNE, 3 Upgrade Credits is enough to upgrade SYD-SIN/BKK/HKG)

And how many required to upgrade SYD-LHR or BKK/SIN/HKG-LHR?

Nice idea, but I'd enforce this bonus after passing the SCs for obtaining/retaining WP. For example, 1 upgrade credit for every 450 SC after 1200 SC or 1400 SC.

I assume upgrade credits were used unconditionally (i.e. by hook or by crook if there was space, the upgrade was guaranteed). Which doesn't happen on international flights at all right now (although upgrade credits instead of points isn't such a bad idea).

Block middle seats and do not allocate these seats to lower status passengers if there are spare seats elsewhere in the cabin

Obviously getting inconsistencies on your flights

Platinums are offered op-ups before any op-ups are offered/given to lower status members

Ditto consistency. You'll always have situations where somehow a lower status pax will be op-uped before a higher one, but they are rare (well, you'd hope so. My guess is your experience tells otherwise ).

And some enhancements that are not likely to happen but would be nice

Business class meals and amenities on international flights when sitting in economy or at least given first choice of economy class meals and business class amenities

First choice Y meals would be nice as a minimum; perhaps offered the bar from J.

The problem with something like offering J amenity kits is that you start really blurring the lines on the premium product. As if the global airline revolution doesn't do that enough already. Some people have had success in getting them anyway, but it does vary across different staff members.

Request classic award seat to be available on any QF flight in any class if there are spare seats available

Miles & More have this kind of feature that allows you to get any seat on a flight if standard award availability is exhausted. The "charge" is standardised at (IIRC) 150% of the normal mileage (cf. QF which can be anything).

I've had success requesting classic award seats where online shows nil availability. I had to call QF Premium; they had to submit a request to yield, then when successful I had to pay a booking fee. Still worth it, though. These were my F flights to Europe last year.

Not sure what it would really take for QF to say 'no' to a WP request like I did (although they said I had nil chance of getting A380 F award seats. Times have changed, and I can even see A380 F award availability online!)

Priority tags on luggage (does not work on most flights)

The problem is that if it does work, it's very useful. And for me that does occur, funny enough, greater than 50% of the time.

Even if the J and F bags get mixed up when picking up from an international flight, if they come out before orange and no-tags then it's well worth it.

We could make it so that there is only one priority tag class... or are you suggesting no priority tags at all?

 

[JohnK]

That'd be nice. Only at the time of booking? (So if you decide later after booking is completed and done, you pay up?)

I should have said ability to request exit row free of charge anytime.

And how many required to upgrade SYD-LHR or BKK/SIN/HKG-LHR?

Nice idea, but I'd enforce this bonus after passing the SCs for obtaining/retaining WP. For example, 1 upgrade credit for every 450 SC after 1200 SC or 1400 SC.

I assume upgrade credits were used unconditionally (i.e. by hook or by crook if there was space, the upgrade was guaranteed). Which doesn't happen on international flights at all right now (although upgrade credits instead of points isn't such a bad idea).

I forget the table that was used to determine how many Upgrade Credits were requred. I only ever received 1 Upgrade Credit and used it on a SYD-BNE flight on the way to SIN as it was expiring.

Obviously getting inconsistencies on your flights

Way too many times. Two Platinums sitting in the first row of economy with someone in the middle seat and the next 7-8 rows with a vacant middle seat. Not happy on Sunday when sitting in 23D with someone in 23E (no status at all) and 23J vacant.

Ditto consistency. You'll always have situations where somehow a lower status pax will be op-uped before a higher one, but they are rare (well, you'd hope so. My guess is your experience tells otherwise ).

Not speaking from experience but hoping that is what happens.

The problem is that if it does work, it's very useful. And for me that does occur, funny enough, greater than 50% of the time.

Even if the J and F bags get mixed up when picking up from an international flight, if they come out before orange and no-tags then it's well worth it.

It is exremely inconsisent and at the disgression of the baggage handlers. It is not uncommon for me to count 50+ bags on a domestic flight before mine comes out.

We could make it so that there is only one priority tag class... or are you suggesting no priority tags at all?

Perhaps one priority tag class but I would not mind if they removed this benefit.

 

[dajop]

It is exremely inconsisent and at the disgression of the baggage handlers. It is not uncommon for me to count 50+ bags on a domestic flight before mine comes out.

Tends to be more consistent on international flights, but I hear you for domestic.

Now many of your ideas are not terribly original ...many are simply what has been lost (both published and unpublished) over the last few years (eg. upgrade credits, free exit rows, requesting classic awards - on flights where "Q" class is not available ...)

 

[serfty]

...
I assume upgrade credits were used unconditionally (i.e. by hook or by crook if there was space, the upgrade was guaranteed). Which doesn't happen on international flights at all right now (although upgrade credits instead of points isn't such a bad idea)....

...
I forget the table that was used to determine how many Upgrade Credits were requred. I only ever received 1 Upgrade Credit and used it on a SYD-BNE flight on the way to SIN as it was expiring. ...

For several years up until May 2005 Upgrade Credits could be used in Lieu of QFF points on any revenue booked QF flight number on QF metal. This included the current deep discount N, O and Q fare buckets.

The catch was that award availability was required at the time of request; U for Business class and Z for First Class. This is similar to how Domestic upgrades work these days. It was the same for points upgrades. One could:

1. look for a flight with award availability in the pointy end on or around the day you wished to travel,
2. book it using the cheapest available revenue fare,
3. call Qantas FF and
4. have the upgrade confirmed immediately.

For some dated info, see this thread:

http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/your-questions/using-upgrade-credits-5276.html#post62184

 

[JohnK]

Now many of your ideas are not terribly original ...many are simply what has been lost (both published and unpublished) over the last few years (eg. upgrade credits, free exit rows, requesting classic awards - on flights where "Q" class is not available ...)

Now my feelings are hurt. I posted thinking that my ifdeas were original.

Seriously I cannot think of too many ways to entice Platinums other than some of the useful benefits that have been eroded in the last few years that I have been Platinum.

 

[anat0l]

I'm going to be bold and say this here, even though the flak is going to come hard and thick.

I'd like to see improvements to the QF program but to do this the requirements for WP would need to be stiffer.

For example, 1400 SC to qualify (1200 SC for requalify), but of those 1400 SC, at least 700 SC (or 600 SC) must be on QF or JQ metal. This makes it very similar to how NZ GE or LH M&M HON must be obtained.

As far as original ideas for status perks, can't think of too many, apart from confirmed international upgrades (which isn't new as it seems).... taking a page from various FFPs around the world:

• Limo service (EK, LH from tarmac positions)
• Extra points after hitting a further-than-elite-qualification level (e.g. BD Gold bonus after 55k status miles)
• Alliances / status with hotels, car rental companies, etc.
• How about just some gifts at Christmas? (anecdotal and undocumented, but a few FFPs do this)

 

[dajop]

For example, 1400 SC to qualify (1200 SC for requalify), but of those 1400 SC, at least 700 SC (or 600 SC) must be on QF or JQ metal. This makes it very similar to how NZ GE or LH M&M HON must be obtained.

I am not sure if any of the other OW programs have "own carrier" requirements like those in star, but in star alliance the top tier is gold, there is no equivalent of oneworld emerald. Star alliance programs that choose to have higher tier than gold usually have some need for significant travel on the own carrier (in addition to the examples you gave SQ have PPS and I am sure there are others). QF already have the 4 flight rule - which I think should perhaps be status credit based (someone who flies LHR-SYD-LHR for $10000AUD) can't get status on QF, yet someone who does two return trips to CBR for $280 can ....

 

[JohnK]

For example, 1400 SC to qualify (1200 SC for requalify), but of those 1400 SC, at least 700 SC (or 600 SC) must be on QF or JQ metal. This makes it very similar to how NZ GE or LH M&M HON must be obtained.

I don't see an issue with implementing this type of requirement

While we are at it I believe the 4 qualifying flights on QF is too easy.

 

[Dave Noble]

For example, 1400 SC to qualify (1200 SC for requalify), but of those 1400 SC, at least 700 SC (or 600 SC) must be on QF or JQ metal. This makes it very similar to how NZ GE or LH M&M HON must be obtained.

If going to do that, why not make it even more egalitarian; make it a $ value spent on Qantas to offset those that spend lots to get SCs rather than those doing it on the cheap similar to that of SQ PPS

 

[dajop]

Of course one thing (rather than making the requirements stricter) that could mean less platinums and therefore things like less people with priority baggage, smaller queues, better seat allocations and less crowded lounges, would be for Virgin Blue/V Australia to join star alliance..

The other thing be careful what you wish for, it is a slippery slope once airlines start differentiating based on which airline in the alliance they spend there money with. As a OWE you can step into most (if not all) designated OW FCL's anywhere a OW carrier operates one. If you airlines in an alliance all start being picky about who provided the custom, the alliance rules might over time change and it could all go downhill very quickly. Despite the prevalence of status run chasers on AFF & FT, I am sure the vast majority of QF WP's are Aussies who fly QF regularly or expat Aussies who used to fly QF regularly and still do occassionally , and likewise for BA, IB, AA, LA ,CX etc. I wonder how many QF WP's there are in Chile who earn their status by flying mainly on LAN throughout Latin America, with a few ~'s thrown in for good measure. I suspect not many, and if there are probably not really impacting any Australian based WPs!!

 

[Aenveigh]

. QF already have the 4 flight rule - which I think should perhaps be status credit based (someone who flies LHR-SYD-LHR for $10000AUD) can't get status on QF, yet someone who does two return trips to CBR for $280 can ....

To be fair though, you're not exactly going to get above bronze with two return trips in discount economy to CBR... it's just one of the qualifications to get status, and the number of SC is almost always going to be the limiting one.

 

[v8Statesman]

If going to do that, why not make it even more egalitarian; make it a $ value spent on Qantas to offset those that spend lots to get SCs rather than those doing it on the cheap similar to that of SQ PPS

Because quite frankly, the QFF program isn't good enough to warrant that sort of eligibility! Go pre 2001 QFF and I would say yes!

 

[dajop]

To be fair though, you're not exactly going to get above bronze with two return trips in discount economy to CBR... it's just one of the qualifications to get status, and the number of SC is almost always going to be the limiting one.

It's mainly an issue that affects non-Australian FF's, where SC's maybe much easier to come by than 4 QF flights (eg those within the US paying for and flying short haul domestic F/YUP fares could get to WP very quickly and easily if it weren't for the 4 ~'s).

 

[Aenveigh]

Sure, but then why say it's too easy - you're saying those 4 flights are difficult already for international QF / OW pax who might be able to access better SC earnings? 4 does seem low, but if you're not flying domestically a few qf runs would seem to require special scheduling / trips etc.

 

[MatF]

I've earnt >1700 SC's for each of the last 2 years, 20 SC's at a time - all on QF domestic metal ... they could make it 40 flights and I wouldn't care