Strategy to obtain US Amex

[Finale]

I just called and they approved my account. lol

It was weird, that asked for my social, I told them I didn't have one and I've uploaded my CP565 ITIN form instead. They said they can see I've uploaded everything all good and then they said they can see my driver license was not expired and approved haha. (I don't remember ever providing them with a driver license).

That's a good DP. Just send them documents without asking ha. Did you fax? We were told uploading wasn't possible and it was business account only. We could only fax or mail.

 

[Tiki]

So here is the biggest first world problem I've encountered so far. Apologies in advanced for the crazy ride.


I took a closer look at the HSBC Elite card and yes, I actually read every word of that entire brochure with all of the terms and conditions. Buried somewhere on Page 9 (or something) was the fact that literally everything ever coded vaguely as travel, even camp site hire (???) gives 5x points per dollar.

Because Qantas marketplace codes as Airfare (Qantas Loyalty Mascot AU, I think?), and you can buy pretty much every gift card there in cash, from colesworth to to ultimate everything for everyone to...whatever this is, this pretty much we get 5x per USD (approx 3.3x per AUD) points on every purchase. Seeing as it codes as Qantas Loyalty Mascot AU, maybe HSBC will just think we are taking a bunch of award flights or something.

$495 USD isn't a low AF at all, but you do get full priority pass with restaurants. Plus there is IMHO a legitimate $10 per month credit to be used on any rideshare-esque service, not just Uber, but also probably DiDi, all the variants overseas like Grub, etc, most likely traditional taxis, and probably Uber gift cards, so $375, I was sitting there thinking that maybe, considering we get literally 5x back on EVERYTHING, maybe there is a way to make this work.

But just as I began to feel the slightest excitement about possibly stumbling upon something exciting, I realised that HSBC US's transfer partners are probably the only thing worse than Qantas' IT systems. Half of the 9 airlines are just Avios flavours, then there's Qantas (lol no), TAP Portugal (????), Avianca, Turkish Kilometers and Giggles and Air France KLM (at 1.25:1), and Accor/Wyndham hotels.

No Air Canada, No SQ, not even CX. I mean, even AU HSBC Premier has SQ still at 2:1 transfer with our intellect as weak as our dollar. With an HSBC Elite card, you do get 1.5c per point on redemptions via their travel portal (I think??), plus you do get 3x QFF points with every gift card.

I suppose there is the US Amex platinum card for 5x back on "Airfares" via Qantas Marketplace, Amex MR points are actually useful, although I wouldn't be surprised at all if Amex was smart enough to realise not every airfare can be exactly a multiple of $25 Australian dollars... Plus, Amex takes about a 1% currency conversion spread (not "fee") on their transactions.

Help me out here. Should I just quit while ahead and just be happy I can pay $550 USD to get Hilton Diamond?

You had my attention with Turkish but then I saw the entry fee to the mandatory Premier Checking! Too rich for my blood. But if you go for this card, out of all the options, Turkish would be my choice, you do get better availability on their program than with *A partners.

 

[pyramidforce]

You had my attention with Turkish but then I saw the entry fee to the mandatory Premier Checking! Too rich for my blood. But if you go for this card, out of all the options, Turkish would be my choice, you do get better availability on their program than with *A partners.

I don't think the premier account has a fee, if you are already HSBC Premier in Australia.

A chat agent confirmed this (although I guess you can never be sure what they know), there is point #3(?) in the T and C that says something like "some requirements will be waived based on your status in other countries", and I'm sure that someone here would have mentioned it if they got slugged an unexpected $50 USD fee per month.

I'll look into Turkish more, but I think it is a 1.25:1 transfer rate from HSBC

 

[albyd]

That's not going to happen. You can spend 7 figures per month on a single merchant and they won't care.

I know this discussion. Is about Amex US. Any DP on how Amex AU might treat this? I’ve been buying GCs of different flavors for some time on my AU Charge card would hate to cause myself any issues.

 

[levelnine]

I know this discussion. Is about Amex US. Any DP on how Amex AU might treat this? I’ve been buying GCs of different flavors for some time on my AU Charge card would hate to cause myself any issues.

I don't think Amex AU cares. There's way more opportunities for gaming/misuse/abuse of GCs in the US than there is in AU, so that's why they care about them in the US.

 

[Ko0l]

That's a good DP. Just send them documents without asking ha. Did you fax? We were told uploading wasn't possible and it was business account only. We could only fax or mail.

They sent me an email requesting for the documents with a link to upload. In fact they sent an email reminder everyday requesting for the documents and I was waiting for my ITIN notice.

This is for the personal checking account not the business version.

 

[Uncharted6264]

No. I applied for the 2nd through GT without any repayment history in the US as I applied for the 2nd card <1 month. No ITIN, no other accounts, no FICO, no repayment history with amex or anyone else.

I know it says only one GT, but often the T&Cs don't marry up with real world hence why a bunch of people can MS really well through trial and error

Any chance you applied before but were approved after first month on the second card? And if not - how long ago was this?

Yes, the real-world experience is what counts.

Well, mine is also real world. Multiple agents refused to process another application after “speaking to the gt team” due to one application already being accepted. I’m going to guess also, mine is the by far the most recent datapoint. So, important for anyone considering this to know.

 

[DC3]

I applied for the 2nd through GT without any repayment history in the US as I applied for the 2nd card <1 month. No ITIN, no other accounts, no FICO, no repayment history with amex or anyone else.

Good DP by the way

 

[Franko Costa]

So here is the biggest first world problem I've encountered so far. Apologies in advanced for the crazy ride.


I took a closer look at the HSBC Elite card and yes, I actually read every word of that entire brochure with all of the terms and conditions. Buried somewhere on Page 9 (or something) was the fact that literally everything ever coded vaguely as travel, even camp site hire (???) gives 5x points per dollar.

Because Qantas marketplace codes as Airfare (Qantas Loyalty Mascot AU, I think?), and you can buy pretty much every gift card there in cash, from colesworth to to ultimate everything for everyone to...whatever this is, this pretty much we get 5x per USD (approx 3.3x per AUD) points on every purchase. Seeing as it codes as Qantas Loyalty Mascot AU, maybe HSBC will just think we are taking a bunch of award flights or something.

$495 USD isn't a low AF at all, but you do get full priority pass with restaurants. Plus there is IMHO a legitimate $10 per month credit to be used on any rideshare-esque service, not just Uber, but also probably DiDi, all the variants overseas like Grub, etc, most likely traditional taxis, and probably Uber gift cards, so $375, I was sitting there thinking that maybe, considering we get literally 5x back on EVERYTHING, maybe there is a way to make this work.

But just as I began to feel the slightest excitement about possibly stumbling upon something exciting, I realised that HSBC US's transfer partners are probably the only thing worse than Qantas' IT systems. Half of the 9 airlines are just Avios flavours, then there's Qantas (lol no), TAP Portugal (????), Avianca, Turkish Kilometers and Giggles and Air France KLM (at 1.25:1), and Accor/Wyndham hotels.

No Air Canada, No SQ, not even CX. I mean, even AU HSBC Premier has SQ still at 2:1 transfer with our intellect as weak as our dollar. With an HSBC Elite card, you do get 1.5c per point on redemptions via their travel portal (I think??), plus you do get 3x QFF points with every gift card.

I suppose there is the US Amex platinum card for 5x back on "Airfares" via Qantas Marketplace, Amex MR points are actually useful, although I wouldn't be surprised at all if Amex was smart enough to realise not every airfare can be exactly a multiple of $25 Australian dollars... Plus, Amex takes about a 1% currency conversion spread (not "fee") on their transactions.

Help me out here. Should I just quit while ahead and just be happy I can pay $550 USD to get Hilton Diamond?

This is perfect. I just got 4 biz cards (up to 5) for S4G15 so that is 5*4*USD4k I need to spend so this will help out a lot!

 

[Franko Costa]

Oh I just check my biz gold and plat cards and I don't think they would get any bonus points through an airline

 

[Uncharted6264]

dollars... Plus, Amex takes about a 1% currency conversion spread (not "fee") on their transactions.

Wasn’t aware of this… annoying. Is this standard for many other US card providers? (The no “fee” but a spread)

 

[pyramidforce]

Wasn’t aware of this… annoying. Is this standard for many other US card providers? (The no “fee” but a spread)

My understanding is that every card takes some type of fee/spread/whatever the technical term is when converting currency. This isn't something nefarious that Amex is doing, Visa/MC/Diners/discover/unionpay/etc all set their own exchange rates that are usually close to, but never exactly on the "real" rate set by the market.

This both helps protect them from sudden currency fluctuations, e.g. Liz Truss mini budget, as well as probably helps make some profit.

I really should be more careful when making numbers up, I dont think the Amex spread is exactly 1%. Here are some resources that may explain better than me.

Foreign Exchange Rates - VISA vs. MasterCard vs. Amex - Hungry for Points

There is a widely circulated belief that VISA's foreign currency conversion rates are 1% less favorable than MasterCard's, and therefore should be avoided when traveling abroad. I set out to examine this assertion.

hungryforpoints.boardingarea.com

Why You Should Use A Mastercard When Traveling Internationally

Here's why you want to use a MasterCard rather than a Visa when paying for purchases abroad. Not all "no foreign transaction fee" cards are created equal.

onemileatatime.com

 

[levelnine]

Wasn’t aware of this… annoying. Is this standard for many other US card providers? (The no “fee” but a spread)

Both Amex and Chase do it in the US. It's about 1%. I have posted about it in this thread before. I began to notice it when I would get a refund on the same day as a purchase — the refunded amount was less than the purchase amount. But you can also test it by looking at a purchase and comparing it to the historical exchange rate on that day. You are not getting charged anything close to the mid-market rate. Funnily enough, from what I can tell Citi does not appear to — they appear to charge the Mastercard rate without any spread.

 

[blacksultan]

This is perfect. I just got 4 biz cards (up to 5) for S4G15 so that is 5*4*USD4k I need to spend so this will help out a lot!

What is ‘ S4G15 ‘ ?

 

[Franko Costa]

What is ‘ S4G15 ‘ ?

Sorry spend $4k and get 15k bonus points with employee cards (EC)

 

[Franko Costa]

Both Amex and Chase do it in the US. It's about 1%. I have posted about it in this thread before. I began to notice it when I would get a refund on the same day as a purchase — the refunded amount was less than the purchase amount. But you can also test it by looking at a purchase and comparing it to the historical exchange rate on that day. You are not getting charged anything close to the mid-market rate. Funnily enough, from what I can tell Citi does not appear to — they appear to charge the Mastercard rate without any spread.

FWIW - Just comparing a couple of amex transaction this week, it seems that I got a rate of 67.56 vs 67.90 so lost out ~0.5%.

I haven't tried buying and getting a refund on the same day though

 

[Uncharted6264]

My understanding is that every card takes some type of fee/spread/whatever the technical term is when converting currency. This isn't something nefarious that Amex is doing, Visa/MC/Diners/discover/unionpay/etc all set their own exchange rates that are usually close to, but never exactly on the "real" rate set by the market.

This both helps protect them from sudden currency fluctuations, e.g. Liz Truss mini budget, as well as probably helps make some profit.

I really should be more careful when making numbers up, I dont think the Amex spread is exactly 1%. Here are some resources that may explain better than me.

Foreign Exchange Rates - VISA vs. MasterCard vs. Amex - Hungry for Points

There is a widely circulated belief that VISA's foreign currency conversion rates are 1% less favorable than MasterCard's, and therefore should be avoided when traveling abroad. I set out to examine this assertion.

hungryforpoints.boardingarea.com

Why You Should Use A Mastercard When Traveling Internationally

Here's why you want to use a MasterCard rather than a Visa when paying for purchases abroad. Not all "no foreign transaction fee" cards are created equal.

onemileatatime.com

Thanks I’ll have a read, not a nefarious thing but will definitely have an effect with business spend. Good to know. And honestly with some of the points multipliers still probably worth it for me, but ~1% spread, 0.3% conversion fee to pay off from AUD does add up in the equation.. will need to start looking more at keeping usd.

 

[Ko0l]

~1% spread, 0.3% conversion fee to pay off from AUD does add up in the equation

The spread itself isn't that bad. I've noticed it can be as low as 0.2-0.5%. Conversion fees can also be reduced if using IBKR. Wise at 0.4% isn't too bad either.

Overall I think you can reduce the average loss from the spread and conversion to about 0.7-0.8%.

However the biggest loss that is difficult to manage is the volatility of the USD/AUD rates.

For example, I used my US amex last month to make some big purchases when the AUD was at 67c USD, then in just 2 wks it crashed down to 65c and I needed to convert to USD at 65c rate to repay my AMEX credit card. From my calculations I made about a 4% loss off a $6K purchase and now the AUD rate is back to 68c USD.

Its also a massive headache on deciding when to convert, will it drop further or will it go back up, the cc bill is due next week etc. Playing with FX rates to me is feeling like a mugs game right now.

Can convert right after making a purchase to eliminate this risk but then you'll lose the interest from holding the cash in the offset and its more of a hassle to remember to do this each time.

 

[pyramidforce]

I think currency conversion is always a risk but it can go in your favour as well, maybe you buy something at 65c per AUD but come statement day it is now 68c per AUD, so you basically made 4% or so in the reverse situation.

There is a minor credit score benefit to paying the card off as soon as possible as utilisation plays a part of your credit score, up to you if that is important.

 

[Ko0l]

I think currency conversion is always a risk but it can go in your favour as well, maybe you buy something at 65c per AUD but come statement day it is now 68c per AUD, so you basically made 4% or so in the reverse situation.

Yes, in the long run hopefully it'll average out. I also didn't make any large purchases when it was at 65c...