Stretching the B737 fleet

[Tremere]

As someone who has flown both VARA A320s, I don't think they are a step up from anything. The interiors are shocking. One is much worse than the other. No entertainment, windows cracked and opaque, worn out and broken seats, etc. Virgin should be embarrassed to have their name on it. Might be the worst commercial plane in Australia.

Apparently the eldest one (VH-FNP, 1993 build) is subsidised by Airbus as a case study for airframe life!
It appears to be one of the few (still flying) A320's of that vintage not operated by a big airline such as LH, DL, UA or AC.

There are so many A32xNeos and 737-Max being built right now so I imagine lease rates for late-model A320/737NG must not be too bad - hence no rush to migrate Tiger.
My armchair CEO guess is that the whole Tiger 737 thing was a play to get out of any unfavourable/expensive A320 leases done by the previous owners.

 

[pauly7]

Thanks, this is what happens when QF is double the price and work insist on us booking all our travel through an admin person based in another state

Got to love the admin people who never fly booking travel for those who always do whenever I start a new contract one of the first new work BFF’s I have is always the people who book travel

 

[TomVexille]

Got to love the admin people who never fly booking travel for those who always do whenever I start a new contract one of the first new work BFF’s I have is always the people who book travel

The lady we had until early this year was awesome, but the rotation since then has made things difficult

 

[Saab34]

The A320s don’t usually see outside of WA Intra Flying. Purely leased for FIFO. Only really go east for charter or heavy demand periods.

Hopefully they pickup some of the newer Tiger birds like VNC-> onwards who all have the newer Airbus interior.

 

[HeavyElectricity]

The A320s don’t usually see outside of WA Intra Flying. Purely leased for FIFO. Only really go east for charter or heavy demand periods.

They've been regularly flying PER-DRW and PER-ADL for quite some time now (as well as XCH/CCK). In fact it looks like they're fairly common on PER-KGI-MEL too.

FlightRadar24 links:

• VH-FNP
• VH-VNJ
• VH-YUD

 

[CPMaverick]

They've been regularly flying PER-DRW and PER-ADL for quite some time now (as well as XCH/CCK). In fact it looks like they're fairly common on PER-KGI-MEL too.

FlightRadar24 links:

• VH-FNP
• VH-VNJ
• VH-YUD

Agreed. I don't think they are even primarily leased for FIFO. I believe they were leased to service XCH/CCK. They utilize them on ADL & DRW routes as well as FIFO just to try and keep utilization up.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Agreed. I don't think they are even primarily leased for FIFO. I believe they were leased to service XCH/CCK. They utilize them on ADL & DRW routes as well as FIFO just to try and keep utilization up.

They were used extensively for FIFO, and flights to Derby-Curtin

 

[Saab34]

They must be fairly tight around the network and more so going forward with increases in Trans Tasman/Domestic routes/A330 HKG increases.

I see F100s now being used ADL/PER too.

Probably see more of the A320s around the network now considering the Tiger birds are newer and more reliable.

 

[CPMaverick]

They were used extensively for FIFO, and flights to Derby-Curtin

Very true, but it doesn't mean FIFO was the primary reason they are in the fleet. So, not sure why you quoted me, but I still maintain that the primary reason they still exist is to service XCH/CCK. But, just my rationale based on the fact that these is the only regularly scheduled flights for these airframes. I also had been assuming the Fokker 100 wasn't able to run that route, but does anyone know for sure? If that's true, then they'd basically be forced to keep these two planes or drop those routes.

Here's a quote from VA:

"However, in a recent statement, VAH confirmed that Virgin Australia Regional (VARA) would indeed retain its two A320s - VH-FNP (cn 429) and VH-YUD (cn 1922) - for continued use on flights to Cocos Island and Christmas Island as well as on charter and FIFO (Fly-In/Fly-Out) contracts."

Virgin Australia Regional to retain A320s

Definitely mentions FIFO as well but doesn't seem like the main reason...

 

[Saab34]

Over the medium/long term you will probably see the F100 fleet replaced with used A320s. F100s can’t go on forever and extensive and expensive maintenance will come to bite as the fleet ages. Allegiant is doing this in the states, slowly transitioning from the MD90s into 10-15yr old A320s due costly engineering as the fleet ages.

QF are doing the same thing, easing the 10+ year old Jetstar A320s into Network.

 

[AviatorInsight]

I also had been assuming the Fokker 100 wasn't able to run that route, but does anyone know for sure? If that's true, then they'd basically be forced to keep these two planes or drop those routes.

The F100 definitely can’t make the islands. Depending on the winds, it can’t even make ADL-PER. They’ve also been having engine issues so you’ll see a couple of them parked on the apron looking in a sad state until they can sort it out. In the mean time, the 737 will be picking up a lot of the slack and you may have seen it on the ADL-ASP-DRW route.

 

[Bagpuss]

Over the medium/long term you will probably see the F100 fleet replaced with used A320s.

I thought I put this in a forum before, but cant find it ....
Talking to a VARA FA at the start of the year they told me they were expecting a number of A320's to join the VARA fleet. Which really meant two things.
1. F100 fleet being downsized
2. Tiger A320's going to VARA

 

[HeavyElectricity]

So if the reason Tiger is switching to 737s is because of fleet simplification and saving maintenance costs (across VA as a group), how does VARA then taking on those Tiger A320s actually help?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if anyone has any insight (I've always assumed 737s/A320s have similar operating costs / performance) I'd be interested to read it. I guess it eventually results in removing one type (F100) from the fleet.

 

[Bagpuss]

So if the reason Tiger is switching to 737s is because of fleet simplification and saving maintenance costs (across VA as a group), how does VARA then taking on those Tiger A320s actually help?

I've always thought the same thing!

You will notice in their corporate ASX updates on yields etc they will never mention VARA as an entity. Which is strange, because it does have its own entity just like Tiger.

 

[mannej]

So if the reason Tiger is switching to 737s is because of fleet simplification and saving maintenance costs (across VA as a group), how does VARA then taking on those Tiger A320s actually help

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if anyone has any insight (I've always assumed 737s/A320s have similar operating costs / performance) I'd be interested to read it. I guess it eventually results in removing one type (F100) from the fleet.

I am not sure the answer but SkyWest had 2? A320's before becoming part of VARA did it not?

 

[docjames]

Speaking very broadly.....

One of the potential reasons would be that a newer aircraft (VAs 737s are fairly new and they have the MAX on order) are preferred by LCCs due to less down time and lower operating costs (at the cost of financing however). BUt they can work them hard each day with short turns and less down time.

Used 15+ year old frames may be preferred by charter carriers or low utilisation carriers as they are cheap to acquire but have higher operating costs in-flight and may be less reliable / require more time-consuming maintenance but cost less to “sit on the ground” in between charters etc

 

[Bagpuss]

I am not sure the answer but SkyWest had 2? A320's before becoming part of VARA did it not?

Yes SkyWest had 2 A320's.

Only this year did VARA get it's third A320 (from Tiger).

Since SkyWest, Vara has increased the number of F100 air-frames (by 2 or 3 I think), got rid of the F50's and added in a A320.

Some F100 are still in SkyWest colours. But I think all aircraft have the Virgin seats.

 

[Bagpuss]

Virgin Australia Regional to retain A320s

Article date: 10.08.2016

Virgin Australia Regional (OZW, Perth Int'l) will retain its two A320-200s despite an earlier decision to largely phase out the type from the group by 2019.

Doing well on this project!

 

[Must...Fly!]

Very true, but it doesn't mean FIFO was the primary reason they are in the fleet. So, not sure why you quoted me, but I still maintain that the primary reason they still exist is to service XCH/CCK. But, just my rationale based on the fact that these is the only regularly scheduled flights for these airframes. I also had been assuming the Fokker 100 wasn't able to run that route, but does anyone know for sure? If that's true, then they'd basically be forced to keep these two planes or drop those routes.

Here's a quote from VA:

"However, in a recent statement, VAH confirmed that Virgin Australia Regional (VARA) would indeed retain its two A320s - VH-FNP (cn 429) and VH-YUD (cn 1922) - for continued use on flights to Cocos Island and Christmas Island as well as on charter and FIFO (Fly-In/Fly-Out) contracts."

Virgin Australia Regional to retain A320s

Definitely mentions FIFO as well but doesn't seem like the main reason...

The islands were served with a mix of E90 and B737 before VARA took over the flying. This was because the A320s spent a long time sitting around doing nothing, as they would go up to DCN in the morning and be back by midday. The other on some days of the week would go to a mine site and some times spend the day there on the ground before taking a shift home to Perth in the evening.

Sometimes it would do a double daily return to a mine site. On the weekends they'd lie around doing nothing, or sometimes pop up in the north west. This utilisation is improving with taking on the Christmas Island flights and others.

The F100 definitely can’t make the islands. Depending on the winds, it can’t even make ADL-PER. They’ve also been having engine issues so you’ll see a couple of them parked on the apron looking in a sad state until they can sort it out. In the mean time, the 737 will be picking up a lot of the slack and you may have seen it on the ADL-ASP-DRW route.

I'd have thought the F100s should be able to make the islands with a tech stop at LEA (as other aircraft often do)? QQ send an F70 up regularly, so I'd be surprised if the HGW F100s couldn't, especially since they can make KNX without a stop. HGW can take 10.7t full tanks.

Doesn't mean it would be economical or sensible, of course...

 

[AviatorInsight]

I'd have thought the F100s should be able to make the islands with a tech stop at LEA (as other aircraft often do)? QQ send an F70 up regularly, so I'd be surprised if the HGW F100s couldn't, especially since they can make KNX without a stop. HGW can take 10.7t full tanks.

Doesn't mean it would be economical or sensible, of course...

Well of course they could make it with a tech stop but considering pax are used to going direct (E90,737,320) and all of a sudden they’re needing to make a stop can be annoying.

I don’t doubt they could make KNX. The question is what kind of payload are they carrying? We could take full tanks from BNE to PER all the time but at what cost? The potential to leave pax and/or their bags behind? So you’ve hit it on the head, not economical or sensible.

Be interesting to see what they replace the F100 with.