Superannuation Discussion + market volatility

[GarrettM]

You do know that you have at least one local friend of very similar vintage...

I'd even include @Daver6 in the local list - although as a young 'un he's still in need of considerable cellar time to reach full maturity...

I think @cove the simplest solution to your cellar issue is probably also the best.
What I lack in vintage @JohnM I do make up for in full-bodiedness.

 

[JohnM]

I think @cove the simplest solution to your cellar issue is probably also the best.
What I lack in vintage @JohnM I do make up for in full-bodiedness.

I can assure you that @Daver6 has a large and far from shabby cellar.

 

[Daver6]

I can assure you that @Daver6 has a large and far from shabby cellar.

Yes I do....oh wait....cellar. I misread what you wrote...

 

[cove]

With the stock markets gyrating we went off to the US and then U.K. to see how they are handling cost of living issues.
After a good review we now know that prices have gone up a lot so in Australia you should not be thinking of trashing your super fund by buying a 4wd and huge caravan and then having bugger all left over.
You will most likely need some funds to supplement an age pension.

 

[CaptJCool]

well March 2024 figures have arrived
2,582,990

Net increase of 2,910

DSS Benefit and Payment Recipient Demographics - quarterly data - Expanded DSS Benefit and Payment Recipient Demographics - March 2024 - data.gov.au

Expanded DSS Benefit and Payment Recipient Demographics - March 2024

data.gov.au

Age Pension recipients by state and territory by age group, March 2024


State 66-69 70-74 75-79 80-84 85-89 90 + Total
Total 337350 687520 648345 460040 288250 161485 2582990


even on those figures its 10,000 less entering from 66-69 even though there was a BACKLOG OF 6 MONTHS
Some 195,000 people became age eligible yet the net increase is under 3,000

And
Now the June 2024 figures are In
The flatlining continues
Hooray for good and decent superannuation

 

[Pushka]

And
Now the June 2024 figures are In
The flatlining continues
Hooray for good and decent superannuation

View attachment 406938View attachment 406939

A quick google found over 4 million people aged 65 plus.

 

[CaptJCool]

A quick google found over 4 million people aged 65 plus.

Yes at least

Sometime ago I did the
“back of the envelope” calculation

In each 5 year classification
At Census 2021 & 2016


The inbound crowd by age eligibility is about 290,000 pa (so each quarter around 70,000)

Less the Death rate (Provisional Mortality Statistics, Jan - May 2024)
Around 75,000 per quarter for all ages
Less the Surviving spouse with double the assets and a lower Singles asset threshold anyway

Sees the % figure on age Pension somewhere
Around 55-65%

 

[Brissy1]

Announced today, new aged care lifetime contribution limit to increase from $80k to $130k and maximum RAD from $550k to $750k.
So, should the expectation now be ($ required for a "comfortable retirement") to have almost $880k left in super when the 1st partner enters an acceptable nursing home to avoid the spouse having to sell the home or pay a huge fee in lieu of the RAD?

Another thought, I wonder is a RAD payment nevertheless counted as the couple's Asset thus affecting whether the spouse can get the pension?
... answering my own question according to google search, No doesn't count. So the remaining spouse in their own home, when the superfund is drained to pay the RAD, might then get a pension they previously didn't.

 

[lovestotravel]

The aged care scheme for those with any decent assets is a joke.

Must ensure that the family trust is adjusted when i get older to avoid fees as much as possible

 

[andye]

So other taxpayers can pick up the bill?

 

[lovestotravel]

So other taxpayers can pick up the bill?

Yep!

If by any chance I do end up in an aged care home, and I really don't wish for that. I won't be letting those greedy companies take 750k or whatever the amount is from my family to put me there.

No issue with daily fees etc but the lump sum is disgusting

 

[CaptJCool]

Yep!

If by any chance I do end up in an aged care home, and I really don't wish for that. I won't be letting those greedy companies take 750k or whatever the amount is from my family to put me there.

No issue with daily fees etc but the lump sum is disgusting

I’m with you on this one

The RAD is a disgraceful way to fund this
The DAP is much more workable
At least with the lifetime cap which includes your home care package self-funding ameliorates the direct cost and this would work in your favour

Forcing the 8% who end up there to sell the family home to do so is awful. This user pays process doesn’t happen in health care nor school education high needs nor for that matter NDIS.
It’s unjust and disappointing

Dutton took a risk in backing Albanese's aged care reforms — but the potential benefit is clear

This week saw a huge flurry of government activity — it's as if the government looked up at the clock and saw time was rapidly getting away from it. But what loomed largest was tying down the aged care deal.

www.abc.net.au

Also speculatively
If the land is owned by one corporation and the operations by another corporation, it’s going to be a rental structure which opens up the opportunity to “shift profits” and appear to be making “operating losses” by transfer pricing by excessive rent charges

Then perhaps one might go to government for more funding

 

[Pushka]

Given the self funded retirees are those people who have to pay the most in residential care and are also those people who've paid taxes, paid Medicare and worked all their lives then yes, the Lump sum payment just for those people is a disgrace.

 

[MARTINE]

Given the self funded retirees are those people who have to pay the most in residential care and are also those people who've paid taxes, paid Medicare and worked all their lives then yes, the Lump sum payment just for those people is a disgrace.

As a group of boomers who live close and have the room we are investigating having a crew of people to support us all at home on a permanent basis — will probably work out cheaper in the end

 

[tgh]

We will try very hard to remain independent and will cheerfully blow some (or even most) of the remaining kids inheritance on the exercise.
I will choose who comes in the front door to cook clean or care.

I have heard of importing a carer (or carers) from racial groups that have a tradition of caring for the aged.
Fiji was mentioned although there may be others.

The key seems to be mental competence as the rest can be bought.
Cognitive decline is likely difficult to manage when you are the subject.
Having someone dress me, clean me, feed me while someone else plays with my money seems a fate little better than death

 

[Pushka]

Cognitive decline is likely difficult to manage when you are the subject.
Having someone dress me, clean me, feed me while someone else plays with my money seems a fate little better than death

We found 'Still Alice' to be one of the most confronting movies we've watched.

Spoiler: Won't spoil for those who haven't seen it

Makes one want to start to plan, which she had done but was prevented at the last minute from fulfilling and the moment was lost. That character did have issues to resolve but if there are none, well, I'd make sure the plan was followed through.

Dementia isn't a reason for assisted dying is it? It should be but I guess there's an issue in assessing recovery but then it can't be assessed until it's too late when consent can't be given.

 

[Pushka]

As a group of boomers who live close and have the room we are investigating having a crew of people to support us all at home on a permanent basis — will probably work out cheaper in the end

My mother in law was financially able to have this but with an ovarian cancer battle it was somewhat different with a finite end. She had around the clock nursing care at home. I'd been given power of attorney to manage all her affairs. Which I had to do for about 6 months.

 

[lovestotravel]

Received my annual statement for my small balance left in my FOR PROFIT super fund..

13.71% return for the last FY

Not bad

 

[lovestotravel]

We will try very hard to remain independent and will cheerfully blow some (or even most) of the remaining kids inheritance on the exercise.
I will choose who comes in the front door to cook clean or care.

I have heard of importing a carer (or carers) from racial groups that have a tradition of caring for the aged.
Fiji was mentioned although there may be others.

The key seems to be mental competence as the rest can be bought.
Cognitive decline is likely difficult to manage when you are the subject.
Having someone dress me, clean me, feed me while someone else plays with my money seems a fate little better than death

Yes "lots" of Fijian's have been coming to Australia for care roles. We go to Fiji several times a year and know the staff quite well (staying at smaller resorts). From the people we have spoken to, at least 10 family members have come to Australia to work in a care at home role.

Fijian people are so honest and caring and just love to help others. Also moving from $5 per hour to $30 per hour or more here is a life changing event for them.

 

[Brissy1]

the lifetime cap which includes your home care package

I didn't know that, a big plus.
Home care assistance is a wonderful thing keeping people out of sad (>60% have depression unsurprisingly) end of life institutions. I'd enthusiastically use super to fund/co-fund that, unfortunately the package is inefficient, the actual worker's payment being only ⅓ of the $ paid to the provider (in my inlaw's experience).