Superannuation! SMSF? Industry? Institutional?

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

You must have at least an audit fee.

Sure - but I was responding to the post where the topic was CA/FA charges & fees.........at the end of the day - no more than a semi-decent doz of shiraz

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Unfortunately I still have a mortgage so I prefer to put it in the offset account rather than lock it away.

If I was over 50 I'd probably think differently

I'm in the same position, with a major preference to get money into my offset account. But it's still a balancing act IMO, of where you need the money most. You still stand to be better off with the money in the super, if you can afford to park it there.

The offset account is going save, say 5% pa. But for every $1 you can put into the offset account you can sacrifice $1.40 into super. So you're already sitting on an 8 year advantage by sacrificing to super. That $1.40 then stands to earn you 5% a year.

Then we have one of my super accounts that earned me 15.4% this year and it is also untaxed. Meaning I pay contributions tax on withdrawal. Sacrificing, if I did so, would get me $2 into the account vs $1 in the offset account.

Anyway, we all have individual circumstances.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

We have just received the age where we can start our draw down from our Super. We no longer have to pay Tax on our Investments, just on our contributions. So nice to start seeing all the money coming back to us, and the ATO paying US money because we have streamed into high dividend yielding Shares, that pay nice Imputation credits. Bought into Telstra at its lowest because of this - who would have thought it would have increased so much in Capital too. That is one thing the GC did for us in our Super - caused us to move our shares into the more traditional base rather than speccies, although they did no nicely for us for a few years.

I'd expect our SMSF to be around 18% growth last year.

Yay, we are no longer "locked away". However, I would still rather be in my thirties.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

We have just received the age where we can start our draw down from our Super. We no longer have to pay Tax on our Investments, just on our contributions. So nice to start seeing all the money coming back to us, and the ATO paying US money because we have streamed into high dividend yielding Shares, that pay nice Imputation credits. Bought into Telstra at its lowest because of this - who would have thought it would have increased so much in Capital too. That is one thing the GC did for us in our Super - caused us to move our shares into the more traditional base rather than speccies, although they did no nicely for us for a few years.

I'd expect our SMSF to be around 18% growth last year.

Yay, we are no longer "locked away". However, I would still rather be in my thirties.

Can you do transition to retirement with smsf?

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Can you do transition to retirement with smsf?

Of course!

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The trustees of the SM Super Fund have to be family. That is the law. The auditor must be independent.

http://images.comsec.com.au/ipo/UploadedImages/membershiprules4f72f878f786468fbc2d5d80ddbf036f.pdf

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

This would certainly be a scam if I purchased a house and rented it to family. But I think SMSF get around this by having the independent trustee, an independent person who determines the investments and has a say.

Forget about residential - commercial provides the best return.....by a huge margin.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The trustees of the SM Super Fund have to be family. That is the law. The auditor must be independent.

http://images.comsec.com.au/ipo/UploadedImages/membershiprules4f72f878f786468fbc2d5d80ddbf036f.pdf

may mistake, but there is supposed to be an independent person in structure somehow.

Forget about residential - commercial provides the best return.....by a huge margin.

Yeah I know. But capital is also required.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

may mistake, but there is supposed to be an independent person in structure somehow..

Yes. Like I said. It must be independently audited by an Auditor who has no involvement in the Fund. Not the accountant who might prepare the tax return. And they produce a report that I'm presuming gets lodged with the ATO every year. And if our Auditor says jump, then we ask how high!

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yes. Like I said. It must be independently audited by an Auditor who has no involvement in the Fund. Not the accountant who might prepare the tax return. And they produce a report that I'm presuming gets lodged with the ATO every year. And if our Auditor says jump, then we ask how high!

Just going from the closure of a company super fund that I was a member of, part of the reason they gave for closing it was the cost of the requirement to have independent investment advisors - separate from the company and the members. I've also read a fair bit about SMSF and there was a fair bit of stuff about requiring an independent person involved in the structure along the lines of a trustee. Also something about the trustee can't only be the beneficiaries of the fund. But then I might be getting mixed up with family trusts.

Every incorporated entity has to have an auditor.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Just going from the closure of a company super fund that I was a member of, part of the reason they gave for closing it was the cost of the requirement to have independent investment advisors - separate from the company and the members. I've also read a fair bit about SMSF and there was a fair bit of stuff about requiring an independent person involved in the structure along the lines of a trustee. Also something about the trustee can't only be the beneficiaries of the fund. But then I might be getting mixed up with family trusts.

Every incorporated entity has to have an auditor.

You can certainly pay to have it managed. I've managed it myself but we have to have an updated investment plan that also gets audited. There are fees in having that done. The members of the fund (ie husband and I but can also be children (adults) as members and therefore Trustees. While companies might have an audit, if it is a private company then there is no requirement. But a SMSF must be audited annually. An outsider cannot be a Trustee in a SMSF.

A company Super Fund is not a SMSF.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

You can certainly pay to have it managed. I've managed it myself but we have to have an updated investment plan that also gets audited. There are fees in having that done. The members of the fund (ie husband and I but can also be children (adults) as members and therefore Trustees. While companies might have an audit, if it is a private company then there is no requirement. But a SMSF must be audited annually. An outsider cannot be a Trustee in a SMSF.

We've been having debates about our financial requirements in an association, incorporated under association legislation. The basic argument put is that all legal entities, that are not natural persons, are subject to the ASIC rules at some level. That means auditing, of course our association with low level assets and non for profit doesn't require independent auditors.

A company Super Fund is not a SMSF.

The super rules apply to all types of super funds. At some level they need to be subject to the same requirements, which was the basis of my benchmark back to the old company super fund.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yes. We have to comply with ASIC rules and we lodge a return each year in both the Super Fund and our Business Company. But it's more a statement confirming that the company can meet all its debts. Not much more than that.

Yes all super funds must comply with the rules however they are constituted; but an SMSF has completely different compliance laws than a company structure super fund. They are different beasts and different Trustee and membership rules. Other than both being a super vehicle that's the only similarity.

Given we've been audited every year for 18 years in our SMSF then I kinda know what I'm talking about with SMSF funds.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

It's uneconomical now to have less than $200 k in a SMSF.
The problem is there are too many idiots happy to let misguided individuals have a self managed fund with bugger all assets.

As opposed to the experts running super funds now.

Superannuation should never have been allowed to be privatised. It should have been run by the government on extremely strict guidelines.

Why am I saying this? My supposedly very safe MLC super account went from ~$48,000 to ~$36,000 4-5 years ago. Then it clawed it's way back to ~$46,000. I just looked at the super statement for 2012-2013 and notice they have lost another ~$700 from my super investments. How is this fund supposed to grow when it is losing money all the time? I would be able to a much better job managing it than these so called experts. That I have no doubt.

Increase the retirement agent to what?
At the moment you can access super from age 55 So increase it to 60, 65?
I think you may in fact be referring to the age pension age which is a fair point

I would hope they do not increase the age I am entitled to withdraw from my super account.

I would love to be able to access my measly super account when I am 59. Actually I would love to access it at 55 but the current laws say I must wait until I am 59. Any later and I won't get pleasure out of spending it as it will have disappeared and I will be too old.

 

[cove]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I took over running our superannuation fund and the deal we got was $699 per year for the accounting and audit. As a result of that annual cost for the two of us I don't think you need a minimum of $200,000 to go into a SMSF.
We are expecting superannuation changes as no Government can afford to leave a trillion or two untouched.

 

[serfty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Off Topic:

As opposed to the experts running super funds now.

Superannuation should never have been allowed to be privatised. It should have been run by the government on extremely strict guidelines.

Why am I saying this? My supposedly very safe MLC super account went from. ...

There's your problem.

MLC is owned by the NAB and run by the NAB to make a profit for the NAB - anything you get is incidental to their aim.

I suggest you look at transferring to a member driven industry superannuation fund, or with that amount of investment, perhaps the newish ING "living Super" - where you can specify how you want to invest (invest in term deposits and the value will not decrease).

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Off Topic:There's your problem.

MLC is owned by the NAB and run by the NAB to make a profit for the NAB - anything you get is incidental to their aim.

I suggest you look at transferring to a member driven industry superannuation fund, or with that amount of investment, perhaps the newish ING "living Super" - where you can specify how you want to invest (invest in term deposits and the value will not decrease).

I was too lazy to quote down using the iPhone app. But I agree entirely MLC is the problem.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Off Topic:There's your problem.

MLC is owned by the NAB and run by the NAB to make a profit for the NAB - anything you get is incidental to their aim.

I suggest you look at transferring to a member driven industry superannuation fund, or with that amount of investment, perhaps the newish ING "living Super" - where you can specify how you want to invest (invest in term deposits and the value will not decrease).

I couldn't agree more. It's so interesting that under choice of fund which allows the punter to put their super wherever they want, it's the 'system's problem' when the punter makes a bad decision.

Even within MLC, there would be a capital stable option, albeit the fees would erode most of the earnings.

The system can't save people from themselves. And don't get me started on the retail financial planning industry...

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

As opposed to the experts running super funds now.

Superannuation should never have been allowed to be privatised. It should have been run by the government on extremely strict guidelines.

Why am I saying this? My supposedly very safe MLC super account went from ~$48,000 to ~$36,000 4-5 years ago. Then it clawed it's way back to ~$46,000. I just looked at the super statement for 2012-2013 and notice they have lost another ~$700 from my super investments. How is this fund supposed to grow when it is losing money all the time? I would be able to a much better job managing it than these so called experts. That I have no doubt.


I would hope they do not increase the age I am entitled to withdraw from my super account.

I would love to be able to access my measly super account when I am 59. Actually I would love to access it at 55 but the current laws say I must wait until I am 59. Any later and I won't get pleasure out of spending it as it will have disappeared and I will be too old.

Sure JohnK, and then the Government would see this golden honey pot of Billions of dollars of our Super monies, and then think it belongs to them to do their shenagans with. Never, ever, should the Govt be allowed to have this access..

All super funds lost money during the period your described. We lost close to $100,000 in our fund mainly through shares collapse. Although we did gain around 14% last FY so not sure why your's lost money?

And yes, getting hands on it at 55 is nice after the years of just "watching" it.

 

[serfty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

...

All super funds lost money during the period your described. We lost close to $100,000 in our fund mainly through shares collapse. Although we did gain around 14% last FY so not sure why your's lost money?....

Mine didn't - but there was no longer any investment in shares ...