Swine Flu Outbreak and Travel Insurance

[Lynda2475]

I have not read all the replies here but those of you claiming that Allianz (and other insurers) would have covered you for cancellation due to Swine Flu if youd had the policy last week are sorely mistaken.

I bought travel insurance from Mondial (Allianz) back at start of February, same day I booked my fligts and tours, however they have a general exclusion for not providing cover for cancellation, rebooking or medical care if you travel when there has been a government or media warning of an epidemic or threat of pandemic - yes thats right even the threat is enough!

So even though there was no threat when I booked, I can not go on booked my trip departing next week to Guatemala, Belize and Mexico - because they wont give me medical coverage if I go, and at the same time wont give coverage for rebooking fees if I delay my trip or cancellation if I dont go.

I can wear the $50 fee from Qantas for getting a credit for my cancelled flights, and luckily American Airlines have an amnesty on cancellation/rebooking fees for this (as I was entering via the US).

But best the central american tour operators and hotels will do is give me a credit to be used by 31 Dec, sounds good but I cant find a new insurance pilcy that will provide medical coverage now that the threat is well known and who knows when the epidemic/pandemic will be over (how do i pick a future departure date). If I cancel rather than reschedule I am $3k out of pocket.

I think the govt needs to step in and force insurers to step up, at least for the people boopked to travel within Mexico in the next month.

I would risk travel to the USA next week (where they have equipped hospitals) but I wont set foot in Mexico atm because its a 2nd world country and without the guarantee of medi-vac should something go wrong, its too risky.

Did anyone manage to find a policy that will cover swine flu for future trips, for bookings not already made??

 

[SnowYeti]

Lynda2475, Welcome to AFF.

Someone mentioned AAMI covered it, but I have not looked.

I feel for you, I am in similar situation but not thousands. I will probably lose $600 all up.

 

[drron]

I work at a unnamed health insurance provider and they sent a pretty good e-mail around about it.

"Figures in context
It is important to realise the context of these numbers. Worldwide, 250,000-500,000 people die each year from seasonal flu. In the USA alone, the number is 36,000 people. "

So that's nearly 100 people dying per day in the U.S from seasonal flu!


The other advice in the email was what is being written in the media - wash hands, cover mouth all that stuff. No different from recommendations to guard against regular flu.


I'm not worried now, nor was I before the email. The bad thing about it though is that it will destroy industry especially for a lot of poor farmers in third-world countries.

Right on.
From the AMA today-
At this stage, protection of families of health care workers (HCW) is dependent on risk. If a HCW has been exposed to swine influenza, depending on the risk, they may be placed on an antiviral medication, which would confer protection against both contracting the illness and infecting others. Apart from this, no other protection would be deemed necessary. Apart from this, general “social distancing” measures would be appropriate, such as maintaining a minimum of 1 metre distance away from others, regular hand hygiene and avoiding touching the face. PPE would not be indicated for family members.
A probable (influenza A positive suspected) case of swine influenza A (H1N1) is a person with an acute febrile respiratory illness who is:

• Positive for influenza A, but negative for H1 and H3 by influenza RT-PCR, or
• Positive for influenza A by an influenza rapid test or an influenza immunofluorescence assay (IFA) plus meets the criteria for a suspected case.

The definition of close contacts is:

• Household members of confirmed or probable cases
• Close workplace contacts of a confirmed or probable case, including sharing an office or cubicle area (sitting within one metre for at least 15 minutes)
• Members of a confirmed or probable case’s class or child care group and their teacher/child care supervisor, where the case is a child aged between 0-12 years old
• Others identified by a confirmed or probable case, household members or workplace contacts as having been in close physical contact (hugging, kissing, sitting within one metre for at least 15 minutes) with the confirmed case
• Passengers and crew traveling on aircraft with a confirmed or probable case as defined below:
  • Passengers seated in the same row, and within two (2) rows in front of and behind the case;
  • Any passengers who moved from elsewhere in the aircraft to spend more than 15 minutes near the case
  • Airline staff (unless they did not visit the section of the plane in which the case was seated)

As I said before if it is going to be a pandemic we are going to be at risk where ever we are.

 

[ArseneV]

And keep eating pork!:mrgreen:

Seriously. It's really sad and stupid what Egypt has done.
UN says Egypt pig cull real mistake -Al Jazeera English - Middle East - UN says Egypt pig cull real mistake

 

[ivyleaf3]

I have not read all the replies here but those of you claiming that Allianz (and other insurers) would have covered you for cancellation due to Swine Flu if youd had the policy last week are sorely mistaken.

I bought travel insurance from Mondial (Allianz) back at start of February, same day I booked my fligts and tours, however they have a general exclusion for not providing cover for cancellation, rebooking or medical care if you travel when there has been a government or media warning of an epidemic or threat of pandemic - yes thats right even the threat is enough!

So even though there was no threat when I booked, I can not go on booked my trip departing next week to Guatemala, Belize and Mexico - because they wont give me medical coverage if I go, and at the same time wont give coverage for rebooking fees if I delay my trip or cancellation if I dont go.

Just out of curiosity, Lynda, did you contact Allianz directly? I have contacted them (TID) twice via email and phone, and both times they have stressed that I am still covered for medical expenses to the states and I have in writing that if the travel advisory is upgraded to 'do not travel' that I will be covered for cancellation. This seems correct when reading their PDS. However, on their website, their currect advice to those travelling to Mexico points out this exclusion for cancellation that you have mentioned, but I can find absolutely NO mention of this in my PDS (TID worldwide coverage - family), although it is a Mondial product. Not really sure where I stand, so I have emailed them again.

 

[markis10]

However, on their website, their currect advice to those travelling to Mexico points out this exclusion for cancellation that you have mentioned, but I can find absolutely NO mention of this in my PDS (TID worldwide coverage - family), although it is a Mondial product. Not really sure where I stand, so I have emailed them again.

No insurance company is yet paying for cancellations that are in effect voluntary at present AFAIK, just because you feel that it is not in your best interests to go (and that is a personal judgement call) does not make it a unforseen circumstance that is out of your control that triggers the cancellation parts of your policy.

That is the point the website message is trying to get across, in short, as far as they are concerned, there is no problem until DFAT declare it a no go or WIO declare a pandemic, in essence situaiton normal. Then if you ignore those warnings, you wont be covered for medical but cancellation will be covered, since the declaration by the authroities is outside of your control!

 

[Lynda2475]

I have spoken to both sales and claims people at Mondial(Allianz) and both have confirmed no compensation for cancellation or deferment. Both refused to unequivocaly answer hypothetical questions about medical should I still travel or about what they will cover if DFAT upgrade to a "DO NOT TRAVEL" - so all risk is on me.

Thing is I do not believe it is as simple as a personal choice not to travel, i.e. personal choice to accept medical risk because other parties have closed venues, cancelled or majorly altered tours meaning I cant fully undertake the holiday I booked, i wouldnt be getting what I paid for.

In Mexico and Oaxaca all the histroical sites (like Teotihuacan), museums, resturants, markets, theme parks etc are closed for the immediate future. Their government is warning against unecssary travel on pulic busses and gathering in crowds.

So whilst I could still go next week, I wouldnt actually be able to do anything much once there, and have no guarantee the busses Im booked onto travel from Cancun to Mexico City via a bunch of places will actually depart.

The sole purpose of my trip was to visit specific sites in 3 central american coutries, the insurer insisting Im getting the holiday I paid for even though all those site would be inaccessible isnt really a fair call.

Id take the risk of catching swine flu if all the actvities I pre-bokked were going to be running and i had a guaranteed medical cover despite warnings at current level.

Seiously what % of your trip has to be canned or altered by operators until insurance kicks in?

I mean if you booked flights and tickets to attend the superbowl, and then the oragniser canned the superbowl QBE policies would refund your flights, but Allianz ones wouldnt. Allianz seems to be coming up shorter than most insurers right now.

 

[markis10]

I have spoken to both sales and claims people at Mondial(Allianz) and both have confirmed no compensation for cancellation or deferment. Both refused to unequivocaly answer hypothetical questions about medical should I still travel - so all risk is on me.

TID seem to be saying its now OK for those directly heading to Mexico and have a policy bought before this week, based on the new website posting:

For Policy Holders Currently in or travelling to or through Mexico
For Policy Holders currently in or intending to travel to or through Mexico, there is provision under the policy to claim for cancellation or amendment costs (whichever is the lesser) that arise from the Influenza outbreak. You must take all reasonable steps to minimise your claim. This includes rearranging your journey where possible.

No cover will be provided for the utilised portion of prepaid travel arrangements. The policy also excludes cover for consequential loss such as loss of enjoyment.

They are also answering very clearly the medical question:

For ALL Policy Holders:
If Policy Holders, travelling in any country, become unfortunate enough to contract this particular strain of influenza, there is provision to claim for medical expenses incurred to treat this illness in accordance with the terms and conditions of the policy.

Theres a lack of info on the mondial site though, head in the sand stuff almost by comparison which is odd given they are part of the family!

 

[beardoc]

This is a bit I am struggling with at the moment. The morbidity rate just doesn't seem that high. Bird Flu and SARS did seem like nasty things, but is this latest strain actually worse than other flu's or is the problem that there is not much resistance in the normal population and so many more people are going to be affected.

There seems to be a number of things that are confusing people here - one is the difference between morbidity and mortality. Mortality refers to people that die from the disease, and morbidity refers to people that are unwell with the disease, but don't die.

Mortality (the risk of actually dying) is "lowish" but not zero - figures currently are 1-4%, which is not insignificant.

Morbidity for Influenza A strain H1N1 is actually HIGH, not low. Just because you have morbidity does not mean that you get better and stay better - long term chronic health conditions can remain.

An example to illustrate this - if you have a car accident, it's mortality if you die there or sometime as a result of your injuries. Morbidity might mean that you have something that is minor and you completely get better (say, a broken arm), but it might also mean alive but with severe traumatic brain injury requiring full 24 hour care.

Influenza A H1N1 is not strictly comparable to "bird flu" as "bird flu" didn't involve proven human-to-human vectors - it was only bird-to-human. This one is different.

The only thing at the moment is that whilst it has spread outside of Mexico, none of the cases outside of Mexico has been as severe as the cases in Mexico. More time will tell if that's just a chance occurence or not.

Just that it's important to get a good understanding of this disease and the terminology right.

 

[Lynda2475]

The official response is:

The following advice applies to policies issued on or before 28 April at 1.31pm AEST.

1. Cancellation and Amendment Expenses:

For Policy Holders travelling to or through Mexico:

For Policy Holders intending to travel to or through Mexico there is no provision under the policy to claim for cancellation or amendment costs. Claims made under this benefit, which arise directly or indirectly from an epidemic or pandemic, are specifically excluded from cover.

Whilst this is the case, the Claims Department are prepared to review submissions for indemnification of such expenses on individual circumstances. If a Policy Holder wishes to make such a submission, they should ensure that they take steps to mitigate all costs and submit their
claim form with full supporting documentation.

For Policy Holders travelling to all other destinations:

For Policy Holders intending to journey overseas, but who are not travelling to or through Mexico, there is no provision to claim for cancellation or amendment expenses if the decision is made to
cancel or curtail their journey.

2. Medical Expenses

For ALL Policy Holders:

If Policy Holders, travelling in any country, become unfortunate enough to contract this particular
strain of influenza, there is provision to claim for medical expenses incurred to treat this illness in
accordance with the terms and conditions of the policy.

For ALL Policies Issued After 28 April 2009 at 1.31 AEST:

1. Cancellation and Amendment Expenses:

For Policy Holders travelling to or through Mexico:

For Policy Holders intending to travel to or through Mexico there is no provision to claim for cancellation or amendment expenses that result from H1N1 Influenza.

For Policy Holders travelling to all other destinations:

For Policy Holders travelling to destinations other than Mexico, there is no provision to claim for cancellation or amendment expenses that result from H1N1 Influenza.

2. Medical Expenses

For Policy Holders travelling to or through Mexico:

If Policy Holders travelling to Mexico experience flu-like symptoms related to the new outbreak of influenza, the cover afforded by their travel insurance policy may be limited.

For Policy Holders travelling to all other destinations:

If Policy Holders, travelling in any country, become unfortunate enough to contract this particular strain of influenza, there is provision to claim for medical expenses incurred to treat this illness in accordance with the terms and conditions of the policy.

Important Information:

At all times travellers are advised that they should make their own risk based assessments regarding the destinations to which they are travelling, regardless of the cover afforded by their travel insurance policies.

The above was provided in writing, but verbally I was tol if the DFAR warning is increased to 5 (do not travel) I would be covered for nothing at all, not even a stolen camera or unrealted event.

 

[Lynda2475]

I have just attempted at least twice to post the full written statement from Allianz and the posts seems to have disappeared into the ether - are there gremlins about?

Markis I was verbally told however that the moment DFAT up the rating to 5, the entire plicy becomes invalid, so wouldnt be covered for so much as a stolen camera.

I can wear the costs of delaying and have Allianz change the travel dates for my policy and be covered per above, but only if DFAT and WHO dont raise the warning again.

 

[Mal]

And if you've been to Mexico in the last 7 days, don't expect to holiday in Singapore:

"The Singapore Government has advised that any traveller entering Singapore who has visited Mexico in the past seven days will be quarantined for seven days and undergo surveillance for symptoms of swine influenza. These measures do not apply to passengers transiting through Changi Airport"

(DFAT advice).

Wonder if Travel Insurance would cover the cancellation????

 

[Lynda2475]

Not sure about other polices but I know Allianz says they do not cover cancellation fees or claims arrising from being quarantined (so probably etxends to threat of being qurantined as well).

 

[mysavings789]

And if you've been to Mexico in the last 7 days, don't expect to holiday in Singapore:

"The Singapore Government has advised that any traveller entering Singapore who has visited Mexico in the past seven days will be quarantined for seven days and undergo surveillance for symptoms of swine influenza. These measures do not apply to passengers transiting through Changi Airport"

Is this real? Traveller will be quarantined for SEVEN days? !!!

 

[albatross710]

Pandemic, it's official.

June 11, 2009 - It's official: We're in a swine flu pandemic, the World Health Organization declared today.
"The world is now at the start of the 2009 influenza pandemic," WHO Director-General Margaret Chan, MD, said at a news conference.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/influenzaAH1N1_presstranscript_20090611.pdf

 

[AndyMac]

I have ANZ travel insurance attached to my ANZ Gold Visa. I have just read the policy document and there is no mention anywhere of Pandemic or anything similar.

 

[kamchatsky]

I have just Columbus Direct in regard to their insurance coverage for swine flu. The agent said that there are currently no specific clauses that would exclude swine flu from claims. Does anyone here currently have insurance with Columbus Direct, and if so, is this also what you have heard from Columbus Direct?

Also, which other travel insurance now has provision for Swine flu? Looks like TID is still have swine flu excluded from policy issueed after end of April.

 

[JohnK]

I just noticed an announcement from Travel Insurance Direct at the top of this thread.

"Travel Insurance Direct clients are covered for Swine Flu!

If Policy Holders, travelling in any country, become unfortunate enough to contract this particular strain of influenza, there is provision to claim for overseas emergency medical expenses incurred to treat this illness in accordance with the terms and conditions of the policy."

Just as well I purchased my TID yearly policy earlier today....

 

[kamchatsky]

The problem is that, for TID, there are no provision of cancellation and amendments for trips on swine flu. That's why I am asking if anyone else has has experience with Columbus and others that may cover for Swine flu.

For all Policies Issued After 28 April 2009 at 1.31 AEST:​

For Policy Holders travelling to or through Mexico:​

For Policy Holders intending to travel to or through Mexico there is no provision to claim for cancellation or amendment expenses that arise from Influenza A (H1N1).
​

For Policy Holders travelling to all other destinations:​

For Policy Holders travelling to destinations other than Mexico, there is no provision to claim for cancellation or amendment expenses that arise from Influenza A (H1N1).
​

Important Information:​

At all times travellers are advised that they should make their own risk based assessments regarding the destinations to which they are travelling, regardless of the cover afforded by their travel insurance policies.
​

This advisory will be updated if and when further information comes to hand.

 

[equus]

If Policy Holders, travelling in any country, become unfortunate enough to contract this particular strain of influenza, there is provision to claim for overseas emergency medical expenses incurred to treat this illness in accordance with the terms and conditions of the policy."

and

The problem is that, for TID, there are no provision of cancellation and amendments for trips on swine flu.

For Policy Holders travelling to destinations other than Mexico, there is no provision to claim for cancellation or amendment expenses that arise from Influenza A (H1N1).​

I am not sure where you see a problem. These two pieces of information are completely consistent - in short stating that TID doesn't consider swine flu anything out of the ordinary at this stage - so they won't cover any changes of mind based on it, but will cover you for medical expenses. In my opinion the "no provision to claim for cancellation or amendment expenses" is referring to changing your plans based on the threat - if you travel and actually get it, then the normal medical provisions apply, which should cover the consequential amendments if you are too ill to continue your journey.