SYD-MEL - Looking for A330

[nicky286]

Hi

Trying to book J class for Sydney Melbourne return flight on first week of Jan 21.

Unable to find any A330 plane. (they all showing as Winglet)

Any idea?

 

[RichardMEL]

It shows where demand is at I guess plus a number of 330's are going on transcon routes to/from PER.

They may add some depending on demand but I wouldn't hold out for it.

 

[Guvner]

QF409 is often an A330. Currently scheduled for that A/C on Mon Jan 4th

 

[nicky286]

Why only 1 A330 plane out of the whole day

 

[milehighclub]

Why only 1 A330 plane out of the whole day

SYD-MEL is far more suited to a 737 at the moment. The limited 330 that are in service (currently 10 out of 28) are doing mostly trans con and international freight.

 

[Melburnian1]

SYD-MEL is far more suited to a 737 at the moment. The limited 330 that are in service (currently 10 out of 28) are doing mostly trans con and international freight.

This was also the trend pre-COVID: both QFd and VAd 1.0 decided that B738s (one of my least liked aircraft) were the 'go'.

To add to what Guvner (great username!) said above, on Monday to Thursday next week (from 14 December 2020), QF409, the 0700 hours SYD down to MEL is showing as an A333 on FR24. This is because that aircraft typically goes on to PER at around 0935 hours from MEL, and returns, so one evening MEL - SYD may then again be an A333 to get the aircraft back to where it started its day.

Interesting that milehighclub suggests only one or two of the A332s are back operating despite overall schedules of the QFd fleet having risen to at least 60 per cent of what was the case a year ago. 40 per cent absent is still a big decline.

 

[jb747]

Interesting that milehighclub suggests only one or two of the A332s are back operating despite overall schedules of the QFd fleet having risen to at least 60 per cent of what was the case a year ago. 40 per cent absent is still a big decline.

And if that 40% is concentrated on the wide body flights, then it represents quite a bit more than 40% reduction in seats.

 

[sudoer]

According to EF the only A330 scheduled on SYD-MEL in January is QF409 (7am departure) Mondays through Thursdays.

 

[jpp42]

For MEL-SYD, QF464 (19:30 departure) is an A330 on 21 Dec. Not sure if this continues?

 

[sudoer]

For MEL-SYD, QF464 (19:30 departure) is an A330 on 21 Dec. Not sure if this continues?

Yes, there are a couple of A330 departures on 27 Dec, and QF464 is operated by a A330 Mondays through Thursdays 21 Dec til 5 Jan.



On 6 Jan QF464 is replaced with QF490 which depart and arrives at the exact same time.

 

[RichardMEL]

I get it the 330 has a nicer interior product, specially in J, but remember traffic is down a heck of a lot - even pre-Christmas AND WA border re-openings (but this explains the transcon flying more). On these key business routes like the triangle there is likely bugger all business travel (and Jan has always been a light month for it anyway).

QF (and the others) want to provide some sort of schedule flexibility to customers and to connect to banks for connections. If the choice is between a much bigger 330 say every 3-4 hours or 4x737 then what are you going to do - specially if the costs make the 737 more economic to run with lower overall load factors. Remember too the 330's have far bigger staffing requirements, and those staff need rostering etc.. it's not as simple as "put more 330 on MEL-SYD"

the reality is that right now (and as noted above it was headed that way pre-covid as schedule frequency was the priority) demand does not warrant a bunch of widebodies. It didn't really a year ago (though there were certain flights that were quite reliable for 330 as they did turn to PER flights usually).

and for an hour flight the 737 is fine in my book. Would I prefer a wide? absolutely but eh.

 

[sudoer]

It's also worth remembering that the A330-300 frames in service right now do NOT have wifi installed as they were usually allocated to international routes. In conjunction with disabled IFE this can make for a rather boring flight unless you BYO pre-downloaded entertainment.

Last weekend I did SYD-MEL in 737 and MEL-SYD in an A330, would pick the 737 again on shorthaul until A330s with wifi are operating.

 

[Melburnian1]

And if that 40% is concentrated on the wide body flights, then it represents quite a bit more than 40% reduction in seats.

Unfortunately - stupidly - I never downloaded a timetable for day X prior to 'the virus', but my memory is that even with the switch to B738s, a minority of peak period weekday flights were A332s on the SYD - MEL - SYD route and (this is where I start to get hazy) some of the 'between peak' (i.e. 0930 to 1530 hours) and 'after peak' (i.e. after 1900 hours) may still have been A332s.

So conservatively that's at least six flights each way on weekdays that were once A332s but are now reduced to B738s. The former for domestic have 271 seats v the B738s at 174, so 97 fewer seats per trip. Doesn't sound much but the reduction in seats soon adds up.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Jan is also school holidays.
If you are a lowly QFF looking at points award seat or points upgrade, might he hard to get those coveted J seats, 737 or 330.
If you really want to try 330 J, maybe do the trip outside of peak times of travel.

 

[sudoer]

If you are a lowly QFF looking at points award seat or points upgrade, might he hard to get those coveted J seats, 737 or 330.

Do you have anything to back that claim up?

My experience was far from the opposite, the Business cabin on my A330 flight last weekend was only 7/28 J seats occupied at T-80. The seatmap filled up at T-24 when ~20 upgrades were seemingly processed.

If you really want to try 330 J, maybe do the trip outside of peak times of travel.

Unnecessary to avoid peak times. Just book an outright J award rather relying on an upgrade coming through. There is generally good availability throughout the holidays from what I've seen.

 

[RichardMEL]

I really don't think the "normal" observations regarding this time of year, school holidays etc will apply anywhere near as much as in "normal" years given travel demand is way down. Sure yes borders have re-opened and there will of course be holiday makers, but I think there will also be people who made plans earlier to take a non flying more local holiday or wait it out as things are so uncertain.

Given most big holidays are often booked well in advance for leisure trips that may also be a factor since some months ago there were no guarantees that one could even fly from say Hobart to Brisbane.

As for J seats really most leisure pax do not worry about such things, specially if you're trying to take 3 kids on a holiday.

if anything I would expect potentially J would be a little easier to get due to a lack of business travel demand from more elite FF's (generalisation I know).

 

[Melburnian1]

I really don't think the "normal" observations regarding this time of year, school holidays etc will apply anywhere near as much as in "normal" years given travel demand is way down. Sure yes borders have re-opened and there will of course be holiday makers, but I think there will also be people who made plans earlier to take a non flying more local holiday or wait it out as things are so uncertain.

Given most big holidays are often booked well in advance for leisure trips that may also be a factor since some months ago there were no guarantees that one could even fly from say Hobart to Brisbane...

RichardMEL, today's comments from the WA Premier that he'd consult with his Chief Health Officer to determine whether the border with NSW needs to be closed shows your comments are 100 per cent 'on the money'.

Thousands of people booked in the next few weeks must now be worrying.

As the Federal Treasurer commented, 'border closures cost jobs'. I'd hate to be working in operations at QFd or the others. What if you had to tell flight and cabin crew just before Christmas that there's suddenly no work available when they'd successfully bid for a line (if that's the correct term)?

Why would anyone book from the eastern states to WA on Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin Australia or the Indian Pacific train if there's some chance at the slightest mention of minimal numbers of new cases in NSW, Vic or Qld there'll be this sort of threat made by this fellow from WA (who faces an election in March 2021)?

 

[milehighclub]

What if you had to tell flight and cabin crew just before Christmas that there's suddenly no work available when they'd successfully bid for a line (if that's the correct term)?

In order to remain flexible with the ever changing schedule, cabin crew are not bidding at the moment in the way they usually would. I assume a similar arrangement has been made with the pilots. And if they were told, it wouldn't be the first time. We are all aware of the risk of coming back flying and that it could stop again if borders close.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Do you have anything to back that claim up?

My experience was far from the opposite, the Business cabin on my A330 flight last weekend was only 7/28 J seats occupied at T-80. The seatmap filled up at T-24 when ~20 upgrades were seemingly processed.



Unnecessary to avoid peak times. Just book an outright J award rather relying on an upgrade coming through. There is generally good availability throughout the holidays from what I've seen.

If you go to the QF website, under (status privileges/status benefits), it does state that QFF P1 gets higher upgrade priority.
Also QFF WP and QFF P1 priority Y seat purchase.
And all except QFF NR get Preferential access to Qantas classic award seats.
As a QFF SG/QFF PS, I never got the T-80 benefit, always only able to check in 24 hours prior.

 

[jakeseven7]

RichardMEL, today's comments from the WA Premier that he'd consult with his Chief Health Officer to determine whether the border with NSW needs to be closed shows your comments are 100 per cent 'on the money'.

Thousands of people booked in the next few weeks must now be worrying.

As the Federal Treasurer commented, 'border closures cost jobs'. I'd hate to be working in operations at QFd or the others. What if you had to tell flight and cabin crew just before Christmas that there's suddenly no work available when they'd successfully bid for a line (if that's the correct term)?

Why would anyone book from the eastern states to WA on Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin Australia or the Indian Pacific train if there's some chance at the slightest mention of minimal numbers of new cases in NSW, Vic or Qld there'll be this sort of threat made by this fellow from WA (who faces an election in March 2021)?

And bang the WA border is closed to NSW again.... sigh...

Most of those flights will be cancelled, the 737 fleet dedicated there will either be used to beef up other routes destinations already very busy needing extra capacity or parked again and staff stood back down

I think that answers the question about A330’s. Too much risk with the state premiers behaving this way.