Taking Qantas to NCAT

[bam71]

I cant find a link to the AFF article about this. Any chance you can post?

 

[papeto]

I cant find a link to the AFF article about this. Any chance you can post?

Sure its on the first post but here it is Flight delayed, missed connection and abandoned by Qantas

 

[Anna]

Just something else thats crossed my mind. Qantas noted in their response to AFF’s article they stated the customer agent provided incorrect advice ( ie by not rebooking us on the next available flight). However we escalated it to the supervisor who said the same thing. There were about 30 pax on the flight who were all told the samething - phoning different agents. So this isn’t a rogue agent getting it wrong. So if it affected all pax on the flight one plausible explanation could be that call centre staff either acted directly on Qantas management instructions or wasn’t properly trained by Qantas management.

If I was able to prove this point, would one be able to claim punitive damages?

What did I say about amateur lawyering?

 

[papeto]

What did I say about amateur lawyering?

Lol I know Anna, but once you start, you can’t stop

 

[Quickstatus]

would one be able to claim punitive damages

While AFF is often a mine of information, also suggest you consult a lawyer

 

[OATEK]

Just something else thats crossed my mind. Qantas noted in their response to AFF’s article they stated the customer agent provided incorrect advice ( ie by not rebooking us on the next available flight). However we escalated it to the supervisor who said the same thing. There were about 30 pax on the flight who were all told the samething - phoning different agents. So this isn’t a rogue agent getting it wrong. So if it affected all pax on the flight one plausible explanation could be that call centre staff either acted directly on Qantas management instructions or wasn’t properly trained by Qantas management.

If I was able to prove this point, would one be able to claim punitive damages?

I did a lot of work with the predecessor of NCAT (the CTTT) over more than a decade that involved attendance at a lot of hearings, and discussion with registrars and members informally. I can assure you that claimants who try to run arguments about how/why a trader came to cause the issue, whether it be training, poor management or deliberate policy, will not enhance their case.

My recommendation would be to stick to what happened to you and what remedy you want. Don't derail your argument with trying to find motives, issues or policies of the trader that contributed. A Tribunal member might ask a leading question during a hearing (eg why do you think this happened), but I recommend you keep it out of your application for a hearing. Just stick to the basics of the hurt suffered and the remedy you want.

 

[papeto]

I did a lot of work with the predecessor of NCAT (the CTTT) over more than a decade that involved attendance at a lot of hearings, and discussion with registrars and members informally. I can assure you that claimants who try to run arguments about how/why a trader came to cause the issue, whether it be training, poor management or deliberate policy, will not enhance their case.

My recommendation would be to stick to what happened to you and what remedy you want. Don't derail your argument with trying to find motives, issues or policies of the trader that contributed. A Tribunal member might ask a leading question during a hearing (eg why do you think this happened), but I recommend you keep it out of your application for a hearing. Just stick to the basics of the hurt suffered and the remedy you want.

Thanks Oatek, it looks like you and Anna, have some experience in the matter and its a good suggestion.

 

[RooFlyer]

Without wanting to discourage this approach (Ithink the more time it happens the better) I think no matter what jurisdictional court or body It was brought to, Qantas' tactics would be to delay delay delay so that the claimant if they are paying anything, just runs out of money (it will soon build up to more than the amount claimed) or gives up in frustration.

Or if the claimant did happen to win, Qantas would simply appeal. They couldn’t possibly afford to let a decision like that stand, as it would open them up to a hell of a lot more.

 

[antycbr]

Without wanting to discourage this approach (Ithink the more time it happens the better) I think no matter what jurisdictional court or body It was brought to, Qantas' tactics would be to delay delay delay so that the claimant if they are paying anything, just runs out of money (it will soon build up to more than the amount claimed) or gives up in frustration.

Or if the claimant did happen to win, Qantas would simply appeal. They couldn’t possibly afford to let a decision like that stand, as it would open them up to a hell of a lot more.

And what would be the grounds for the appeal if they did lose? Qantas is on shaky ground here if they appeal, as they look vindictive especially if the media portray it that way when it invariably hits the media.

Their preferred course IMO will be to settle before it gets into somewhere where a precedent will be set.

 

[RooFlyer]

And what would be the grounds for the appeal if they did lose? Qantas is on shaky ground here if they appeal, as they look vindictive especially if the media portray it that way when it invariably hits the media.

Their preferred course IMO will be to settle before it gets into somewhere where a precedent will be set.

Yes, a quick settlement would probably be a good outcome from them, as long as it was kept quiet.# Much like Telstra does or did respond very quickly and in my experience, generously to complaints to the Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman.

OTOH, I'm sure they would come up with some grounds for appeal (I'm not saying they would be justified!). If they were found to have to compensate a pax for what's been described here, it would (should!!) open the floodgates and they would be desperate to avoid that. A settled claim would not be much better for them - the amount would probably be made to be kept confidential, but its happening would still be bad for them.

# Are resolutions through NCAT able to be kept "off the record"?

 

[OATEK]

# Are resolutions through NCAT able to be kept "off the record"?

Not all Tribunal matters are published as a matter of course.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Having also dealt with various matters via NCAT it seems QF will happily negotiate with you prior to judgement being made and that their focus is actually assisting those who decide to escalate the issues being faced by lack of contact / action.

Sadly it seems customer service has gotten so bad in certain industries that lodging an NCAT complaint is the only way to actually speak to a human being and get your issues resolved.

As OATEK said keep emotion/opinion out of your complaint - just state the facts and what you require as compensation (don't forget to include supporting documents eg original booking, receipts, boarding passes, any correspondence from QF, etc)

 

[Quickstatus]

Eleni Petinos being the minister for trading

Not any more

 

[Vic]

What did I say about amateur lawyering?

having said that, someone in my sailing club has recently, successfully appealed against the Crown Solicitor to the Supreme Court...

Not a lawyer at all...

edit: I must stress, it took a lot of time to get the win...

 

[papeto]

Thanks everyone for their opinions and support . We filed our claim with NCAT today. While compiling my reasons I noted the following contained in the Qantas Condition of Carriage:

• Conditions of Carriage section 9.1 (c) (Attachment C) states “If, due to Events Within Our Control, after you buy your Ticket, we make a Significant Change to your flight we will:
• rebook you on the next available flight (or combination of flights) on our services to your booked destination at no additional cost to you”

 

[justinbrett]

Thanks everyone for their opinions and support . We filed our claim with NCAT today. While compiling my reasons I noted the following contained in the Qantas Condition of Carriage:

• Conditions of Carriage section 9.1 (c) (Attachment C) states “If, due to Events Within Our Control, after you buy your Ticket, we make a Significant Change to your flight we will:
• rebook you on the next available flight (or combination of flights) on our services to your booked destination at no additional cost to you”

That works if it's a QF issue (ie QF metal delayed or cancelled).

They could argue, if for example it was a QR issue (which many of these have been), that was an event beyond their control, and thus

Where we make a Significant Change to your flight due to an Event Beyond Our Control, whether you have checked in or not, we will:

• use reasonable endeavours to rebook you on the next available flight on our services at no additional cost to you
• alternatively, if we are unable to rebook you on services acceptable to you, we will refund the applicable fare.

 

[papeto]

QF metal delay caused the issue. Their decision to cancel it.

 

[Vic]

That works if it's a QF issue (ie QF metal delayed or cancelled).

Well it was a QF issue - QF cancel, QF delay...

 

[justinbrett]

QF metal delay caused the issue. Their decision to cancel it.

Absolutely - not saying that was relevant to you - but a lot of other issues were due to QR cancellations etc.

 

[jpp42]

Does Qantas ban people who take them to tribunals/court from ever flying with them again? I have heard of this occurring before with other large companies. Basically they tag you as a troublemaker and prefer not to do business with you in the future. (In the US, they'll even confiscate all your frequent flyer miles while doing so, although I expect that might be difficult under Australian law.)