The COVID-19 vaccine rollout in Australia has begun

[Princess Fiona]

From 15th Dec there is no state rule excluding unvaccinated from all hospitality venues, however individual businesses can still exclude unvaccinated. Many clubs have already stated unvaccinated will continue to be excluded.

Yes I’m aware. I’ll be actively seeking out businesses to use that continue to be exclusively for fully vaccinated clients. My family will be doing the same.

 

[Pushka]

Yes I’m aware. I’ll be actively seeking out businesses to use that continue to be exclusively for fully vaccinated clients. My family will be doing the same.

Drakes Supermarkets and Foodland (SA competitors to Coles and Woolies) who are my favourite supermarkets came out yesterday and stated that in deference to the loyalty of their employees during covid, then they will not make vaccination mandatory. Clearly a winner for the anti vaxxers but showed no respect whatsoever to loyal customers who, (generalisation here), tend to be those in the older age bracket and whom are very likely to be 95% vaxxed. Once covid hits SA I will not be going into their stores again. To actually make this statement as opposed to just letting it go under the radar is very surprising.

 

[Pushka]

And this today from my GP practice which is part of a chain. A bridge too far?
Hi xx_x
As of Tuesday 23rd November All patients attending PHC Henley Beach need to show proof of their Covid-19 vaccination status prior to their appointment.
Face Masks must be worn at all times.
All Respiratory Symptoms will only be offered a Telehealth consultation initially.
Thank you for helping us protecting our staff, patients and the wider community.

Covid-19 Management Plan - Henley Beach - Pro Health Care

Pro Health Care Henley Beach have implemented changes to mitigate Covid-19 in order to keep everyone safe.

prohealthcare.com.au

 

[nutwood]

Yes I’m aware. I’ll be actively seeking out businesses to use that continue to be exclusively for fully vaccinated clients. My family will be doing the same.

Is this reasonable? The unvaccinated are a risk to themselves not others. The same venues allow pedophiles and politicians through the door. I can understand if it's your business and you do not wish to cater to the unvaccinated, but to actively embargo a business because it's decided that its client's health matters are none of its business..?

 

[andye]

Is this reasonable? The unvaccinated are a risk to themselves not others. The same venues allow pedophiles and politicians through the door. I can understand if it's your business and you do not wish to cater to the unvaccinated, but to actively embargo a business because it's decided that its client's health matters are none of its business..?

They are more likely than a vaccinated person to transmit to:
a) someone who genuinely can't have a vaccine who may get sick or die
b) someone who has been vaccinated but not mounted a response who may get sick and die
c) a child who though they may not get sick might go on to transmit and will cause no end of childcare hassles
d) a vaccinated person who though they may not get sick from a breakthrough infection would have to take time off work (and particularly if in a critical setting such as healthcare inadvertently infect their colleagues)

Getting vaccinated is a civic duty over and above protecting oneself

 

[Princess Fiona]

Is this reasonable? The unvaccinated are a risk to themselves not others. The same venues allow pedophiles and politicians through the door. I can understand if it's your business and you do not wish to cater to the unvaccinated, but to actively embargo a business because it's decided that its client's health matters are none of its business..?

Where did I say I was “embargoing” a business that caters to all unvaccinated or otherwise ?

I didn’t. I said I’m going to actively support businesses that are for fully vaccinated clients/ customers.
That’s entirely reasonable in my opinion.
You can hold an alternative opinion and I have no issue with that.

EDIT The unvaccinated are a risk to those who can’t be vaccinated. That’s how mass vaccination works.

 

[Quickstatus]

civic duty

On one level certainly, but beware that some of humanity’s worst atrocities were committed in the name of ‘civic duty’.
I would be naive to think that I would/could never have been a naz_/Stalin etc.

“The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart”

 

[justinbrett]

Drakes Supermarkets and Foodland (SA competitors to Coles and Woolies) who are my favourite supermarkets came out yesterday and stated that in deference to the loyalty of their employees during covid, then they will not make vaccination mandatory. Clearly a winner for the anti vaxxers but showed no respect whatsoever to loyal customers who, (generalisation here), tend to be those in the older age bracket and whom are very likely to be 95% vaxxed. Once covid hits SA I will not be going into their stores again. To actually make this statement as opposed to just letting it go under the radar is very surprising.

It's one thing to include the unvaccinated from a pub - quite another to exclude them from a grocery store.

Each to their own, but there is a balance to be achieved here. I think if grocery stores started requiring vaccinations that would be a very slippery slope to the loss of our humanity.

 

[drron]

Where did I say I was “embargoing” a business that caters to all unvaccinated or otherwise ?

I didn’t. I said I’m going to actively support businesses that are for fully vaccinated clients/ customers.
That’s entirely reasonable in my opinion.
You can hold an alternative opinion and I have no issue with that.

EDIT The unvaccinated are a risk to those who can’t be vaccinated. That’s how mass vaccination works.

Though hopefully the new antibody treatments from Regeneron and AZ get approval soon and are taken up by our government as they have had good Phase 3 trial results. will be particularly useful for those that can't be vaccinated.

 

[oznflfan]

It's one thing to include the unvaccinated from a pub - quite another to exclude them from a grocery store.

Each to their own, but there is a balance to be achieved here. I think if grocery stores started requiring vaccinations that would be a very slippery slope to the loss of our humanity.

Not to mention (at least in SA) barring unvaccinated from going to the doctor. Isn't this a basic human right in Australia to seek medical help?

Imagine the litigation if little 13 year old unvaccinated (for whatever reason) Johnny dies from something that a doctor could pick up in 3 seconds that could not be picked up on a telephone telehealth call.

 

[Pushka]

It's one thing to include the unvaccinated from a pub - quite another to exclude them from a grocery store.

Each to their own, but there is a balance to be achieved here. I think if grocery stores started requiring vaccinations that would be a very slippery slope to the loss of our humanity.

This was just for employees and not customers.

 

[andye]

On one level certainly, but beware that some of humanity’s worst atrocities were committed in the name of ‘civic duty’.
I would be naive to think that I would/could never have been a naz_/Stalin etc.

“The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart”

Even Godwin himself would have been impressed with how quickly that came up. (PS I read Princess Fiona's post as exercising a free-market consumer choice)

 

[Princess Fiona]

Not to mention (at least in SA) barring unvaccinated from going to the doctor. Isn't this a basic human right in Australia to seek medical help?

Imagine the litigation if little 13 year old unvaccinated (for whatever reason) Johnny dies from something that a doctor could pick up in 3 seconds that could not be picked up on a telephone telehealth call.

They aren’t barring them from a GP appointment. They are saying that the appointment will only be via Telehealth. This has happened for various scheduled Dr appointments specialists etc widely throughout the pandemic where there is community transmission. Was and still is commonplace in VIC and NSW.

Emergency care face to face is available to all.

 

[Must...Fly!]

And this today from my GP practice which is part of a chain. A bridge too far?
Hi xx_x
As of Tuesday 23rd November All patients attending PHC Henley Beach need to show proof of their Covid-19 vaccination status prior to their appointment.
Face Masks must be worn at all times.
All Respiratory Symptoms will only be offered a Telehealth consultation initially.
Thank you for helping us protecting our staff, patients and the wider community.

Covid-19 Management Plan - Henley Beach - Pro Health Care

Pro Health Care Henley Beach have implemented changes to mitigate Covid-19 in order to keep everyone safe.

prohealthcare.com.au

Genuinely sad.

 

[jakeseven7]

From the 15th December they can, unless it gets pushed back again.
Was originally 1st December.

Thanks… I guess it will be an anti-vaxxers safe haven compared to some other jurisdictions!

 

[jakeseven7]

Any bets over which of the tortoise states will get to 80% double first? It’s like watching snails race

 

[Pushka]

Is this reasonable? The unvaccinated are a risk to themselves not others. The same venues allow pedophiles and politicians through the door. I can understand if it's your business and you do not wish to cater to the unvaccinated, but to actively embargo a business because it's decided that its client's health matters are none of its business..?

But many can't be vaccinated right now because of significant health issues. And young children who may have health issues that are under age to be immunised. These are the ones at far more risk than average Joe Blow.

 

[nutwood]

Where did I say I was “embargoing” a business that caters to all unvaccinated or otherwise ?

I didn’t. I said I’m going to actively support businesses that are for fully vaccinated clients/ customers.
That’s entirely reasonable in my opinion.
You can hold an alternative opinion and I have no issue with that.

EDIT The unvaccinated are a risk to those who can’t be vaccinated. That’s how mass vaccination works.

I don't have a strong opinion on the subject. I do however think that vaccination should be a matter of public education and private businesses should not have to decide who they serve. Or for that matter, even think about making a decision on the question.
If the Government wishes to make vaccination compulsory, they should come out and say so, then wear the political flak. They have the power via access to Government services and the taxation system. Expecting private business to do the work is just gutless.

 

[Pushka]

If the Government wishes to make vaccination compulsory, they should come out and say so, then wear the political flak. They have the power via access to Government services and the taxation system. Expecting private business to do the work is just gutless.

Absolutely agree with that too.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

EDIT The unvaccinated are a risk to those who can’t be vaccinated. That’s how mass vaccination works.

Plus as even the vaccinated can contract Covid, and still suffer adverse health outcomes (though at much lower rates), one could argue that the unvaccinated are a greater risk to all than the vaccinated.

The vaccinated can also infect, though the view seems to be though at a much lower likelihood/rate/risk.




I see it as somewhat analogous to cigarette smoking in that I choose to favour accommodation/transport/venues etc where cigarette smoking is prevented (These days this is moreso when I am say in Europe than Australia). Even better if it is banned. I don't want to breathe in second hand smoke to protect my health, and I also do not want to breathe in air from person contagious with Covid.

I am so grateful for example that cigarette smoking is banned on flights these days. It was often dreadful when they were not and especially the longhaul flights.

The issue is where the line gets drawn in terms of which venues/businesses should have such a ban.

The greater the vaccination rate the less the need for such bans. The unvaccinated though are relying on the vaccinated to protect their health, while still risk on others and not just themselves.