The demise of Qantas international flights

[Mattg]

I've been thinking lately about how few destinations Qantas actually still fly to internationally. In particular, I really enjoyed using the QF5/6 service to FRA. It seems as though Qantas are continuously slashing routes which it claims are unprofitable and not adding new routes, resulting in net losses for Australian travellers.

In the past 5 or so years,

• QF5/6 to FRA was axed in April
• QF81/82 ADL-SIN leg axed
• QF67/68 PER-HKG axed
• QF71/72 PER-SIN axed
• QF51/52 SIN-BOM leg (connecting with flights to/from Australia) axed
• QF25/26 AKL-LAX axed
• Flights from SIN, BKK and HKG to LHR axed
• Many flights given to Jetstar, e.g. most of the Japan flights.

You get the idea... In the meantime, there have been some changes which haven't resulted in net losses, however have not resulted in net gains either, such as:

• QF73/74 SYD-SFO replaced by QF7/8 to DFW
• QF17/18 SYD-EZE replaced with QF27/28 SYD-SCL
• Flights to LHR now fly through DXB
• All flights to AKL and WLG (NZ) are now operated by Jetconnect 737s.

This is not an exhaustive list, but you get the idea. Looking back even further, Qantas used to fly to many more destinations, such as to Rome via Bangkok, and these destinations are long gone.

What was the last international destination, other than the ones which simply cannibalised old ones (i.e. DXB, DFW and SCL) which Qantas actually added? I honestly can't think of it.

It really saddens me that Qantas no longer fly to so many destinations which it used to. It would be really nice to see them open up some new routes! Perhaps they could resume flights to FRA, or perhaps start flying to Berlin, where oneworld airline airberlin has a hub, through their new hub of DXB? Emirates don't even fly there so they could even codeshare with them and get some decent traffic! Or perhaps they could fly to DXB from more than just two Australian cities? They could even fly their from PER with an A330.

Where would you like to see Qantas fly to?

 

[AWA2602]

Great points raised by Mattg.

I'd love to see QF on the following:

SYD/MEL to YVR
SYD/MEL to BOM via KUL
SYD to SFO (particularly in Feb and Mar each year to make it easier for the SFO party boys to get to Mardi Gras )
MEL to PEK (to compliment the SYD to PVG service)
PER to HKG via BKK or KUL
DXB to TXL (would be a great way to add a new port to the QF-EK alliance network)

Going a little off topic now, but, in addition to some new ports, it would be great to have Y+ added to the QF International A330 fleet. As I frequently find myself on this aircraft for trips into Asia, the flights are too short to get J fares past the bean counters but too long to make Y a reasonable proposition, I have use points to upgrade from Y to J.

 

[Pushka]

Into Adelaide we have daily SQ, Emirates, and several days a week MAS, Cathay Pacific and I think Air NZ and Virgin International flights. No red roo to be seen anywhere.

 

[Archphoto]

Their decision to tie themselves to EK (rather than BA), has brought about some *interesting* decisions, and many don't seem to be well thought out. I understand their decision to change QF1/2 SYD-BKK vv (747) to QF23/24 (330) - but the timings are not that great outbound from AU.

I don't know too many people who'd decide to connect to another Asian city via BKK, if a more direct flight exists or heading to a meeting on a 4:30PM arrival. I've yet to clear customs/immigration/baggage collection in under and hour and after being up since well before the sun, that's the absolute last thing I'd want to be doing after my arrival. (IIRC these were some of the reasons put forward, for the changes in departure times from AU.)

It will be interesting to see how many further "enhancements" are made to routes over the next 5-10 years, now that they're aligned with EK. Pity they couldn't do a tie up with CX/Dragonair for their AU-Asia routes (currently serviced by J*.)

 

[drewbles]

I'm still willing to put cash on it become "Qantas... (powered by Emirates)".

Just my conjecture

 

[Mattg]

Great points raised by Mattg.

I'd love to see QF on the following:

SYD/MEL to YVR
SYD/MEL to BOM via KUL
SYD to SFO (particularly in Feb and Mar each year to make it easier for the SFO party boys to get to Mardi Gras )
MEL to PEK (to compliment the SYD to PVG service)
PER to HKG via BKK or KUL
DXB to TXL (would be a great way to add a new port to the QF-EK alliance network)

Going a little off topic now, but, in addition to some new ports, it would be great to have Y+ added to the QF International A330 fleet. As I frequently find myself on this aircraft for trips into Asia, the flights are too short to get J fares past the bean counters but too long to make Y a reasonable proposition, I have use points to upgrade from Y to J.

It would make a lot of sense to fly from DXB to Berlin once the new Brandenburg airport is opened. They could even just use an A330 (although I prefer the 747/380) if they are worried about filling a cabin - not that they should be, considering the number of people who fly between Australia/Dubai and Germany, the connections out of Berlin available with airberlin and the fact that EK doesn't currently fly there. They could even fly, for example, PER-DXB-BER!

 

[Buzzard]

I'd like to see actual Qantas flights from Adelaide to anywhere.
Sure, we have QF domestic but when it comes to international flights, Adelaide is like the long lost city of the Incas!

 

[Archphoto]

I'd like to see actual Qantas flights from Adelaide to anywhere.
Sure, we have QF domestic but when it comes to international flights, Adelaide is like the long lost city of the Incas!

Except they found that, didn't they?

I agree totally - just off the top of my head, they could split some of the SYD-SIN and SYD-BKK flights between the two capitals - but that would mean some lateral thinking would have to take place.

 

[zachary.august]

If these services had actually made any money I doubt that they would've scrapped them. QF's international problems come mainly from the Dreamliner delays and the fact that the A380 arrived during the worst parts of the GFC and the unions who impose unrealistic restrictions on QF. I think for baby steps we might see QF operate PER-DXB-BER on an A330 once the new cabins are fitted. This would probably produce a fair chunk of change for QF through EK and a lot of AUS-GER traffic. I also think you'll see a lot of Asian expansion if/when they get the B787. Also AJ has been quoted many a time saying that if the French would give QF daily to CDG they would move quickly to start a service. I think operating a SYD-DXB-CDG service (that connects with the MEL service in DXB) would be a winner. Or here is a spanner, what if they extended the 388 service from HKG on to CDG? O and D traffic? A380 on the route (the only one I believe)

 

[Archphoto]

I don't have a problem with the SYD-BKK flight - you had to connect regardless, but the new *enhanced* departure time sucks severely if you aren't based in MEL/SYD. I'm dreading my return flight at the end of the month - we've had some fog here in ADL which has grounded flights, and I doubt highly they'll hold the connection.

Will be interesting to see what happens if it is delayed. . . . . :shock:

 

[madrooster]

Or here is a spanner, what if they extended the 388 service from HKG on to CDG? O and D traffic? A380 on the route (the only one I believe)

QF needs more A380s before that can happen. With 12 aircraft they can only run a daily return to HKG alongside their other existing routes. To extend to CDG would require another 2 A380s.

 

[ermen]

I'm really saddened at the shirinking of QF International.
Resuming PER - HKG would be a good start
And a service to PEK sounds logical too
But yes, understand the whole cost base with QF. Come to think about it, if they were based in Asia, they may actually operate a pretty good airline.
Aviation is still one of the silliest industries that is rrationally protected... hope for the day where there are true open skies... It does not make sense to remain so nationalistic in an increasingly global and connected world...

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

Great points raised by Mattg.

I'd love to see QF on the following:

SYD/MEL to YVR

I agree entirely with your observation.
As I previously worked in the Tourism industry in Canada, I have heard from numerous sources that since Qantas dropped out of the YVR > SYD route, this has turned into one of , if not the Most, lucrative route for Air Canada (AC). Air Canada are routinely oversold on this route & during the previous Canadian Winter/ski season (December- February 2012) Air Canada in fact increased capacity as a result of increased demand.

No Doubt in my mind that if Qantas were to return on this route, even if it was just 2-3 times per week to start with, this route would be a winner. Although I have never flown this route with AC, numerous people have commented (Particularly Canadian Citizens) that the AC Product & service offered is below par on this long haul route.

Qantas could certainly provide a far superior product that would be warmly received from numerous target markets.

 

[Mattg]

I'm really saddened at the shirinking of QF International.
Resuming PER - HKG would be a good start
And a service to PEK sounds logical too

Qantas should absolutely be flying to PEK! They made a big deal over the past year about their "Asian strategy"... this seems to have involved reducing the number of flights to Asia, retiming the ones which remain (making them inconvenient for quite a few customers), and downsizing aircraft size/capacity (i.e. swapping 380/747 to 330).

If Qantas were serious about taking advantage of the Asian century, they should at the very least start/resume flying to the capital of the next global superpower (i.e. Beijing)!! Think of the number of Australians who travel to China, and not to mention the number of Chinese visitors to Australia - this will only increase in the future!

They should also really be flying to KUL, particularly after sponsoring MH to join oneworld!

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

They should also really be flying to KUL, particularly after sponsoring MH to join oneworld!

Agree entirely with your Observation. Even BA have apparently been spotted in recent months checking out the Airport facilities at KUL as a possible new route.

 

[Isochronous]

SYD-PEK
BNE-TPE
SYD-CGK daily
PER-HKG restored
PER-DXB-TXL
SYD-HKG-CDG on A380 would be nice (I always saw the introduction of 388 to HKG route as a precursor to sending it elsewhere into Europe - perhaps even a major European city not served by CX...I don't think CX go to Berlin either)
SIN-BOM
ADL-AKL/WLG
MEL-YVR
A possible HNL-LAS tag flight
MEL-SFO, maybe even MEL-SFO-ORD to ensure a full cabin
CBR-WLG
Would love LHR-JFK tag to make it possible to go RTW all on QF metal
AKL-US flights back - LAX most likely. Wonder about somewhere random like San Diego though.

 

[airbound]

QF currently has three planes sitting on the ground every day at LAX for a long, long time. Would you like to see one of those planes (most likely the 747) continue on to somewhere from LAX? Where would it be able to get to in time to get back to LAX in time to continue on to Australia, and where, if anywhere, might actually work? MIA? YVR?

It could add another international destination!

 

[ajw373]

Their decision to tie themselves to EK (rather than BA), has brought about some *interesting* decisions, and many don't seem to be well thought out. I understand their decision to change QF1/2 SYD-BKK vv (747) to QF23/24 (330) - but the timings are not that great outbound from AU.

I don't know too many people who'd decide to connect to another Asian city via BKK, if a more direct flight exists or heading to a meeting on a 4:30PM arrival. I've yet to clear customs/immigration/baggage collection in under and hour and after being up since well before the sun, that's the absolute last thing I'd want to be doing after my arrival. (IIRC these were some of the reasons put forward, for the changes in departure times from AU.)

It will be interesting to see how many further "enhancements" are made to routes over the next 5-10 years, now that they're aligned with EK. Pity they couldn't do a tie up with CX/Dragonair for their AU-Asia routes (currently serviced by J*.)

That of course is a matter of personal opinion. I rather like the re-timed flights. Coming from Canberra it means I can get an early jet CBR-SYD, rather than waste half a day doing nothing then get a dash-8, or an early jet and have a 7 hour wait in Sydney, which was the case when QF1/2 left at ~5pm. It also means I can arrive in Bangkok at a decent hour, which allows me to get my body clock adjusted easier by being able to have an relaxed evening meal and get to bed by 9 or 10pm rather than arriving at around midnight BKK time, getting to the hotel at 1am and trying to go to work in a fit and alert state at 8:30am.

As for connections there are a shed load of possible flights from 6pm onwards. Sure some, like RJ to Amman, AY to Helsinki or even BA to LHR have 5-6 hour wait times, but previously some of these connections were not possible, unless you got the BA flight that left Sdney slightly earlier than the old QF1/2 to BKK.

And yes you are right with a 4:30pm arrival there is no chance of meetings that day, though that was true with the 11:30pm arrival too (unless said meeting was at Soi Cowboy!), but as mentioned above you have a better chance of being able to get up and go the next day with a decent sleep which is gained by arriving early.

Sure you may well disagree, but as mentioned it is all a matter of personal opinion and the above is mine.

 

[Economy_Gold]

It would make a lot of sense to fly from DXB to Berlin once the new Brandenburg airport is opened. They could even just use an A330 (although I prefer the 747/380) if they are worried about filling a cabin - not that they should be, considering the number of people who fly between Australia/Dubai and Germany, the connections out of Berlin available with airberlin and the fact that EK doesn't currently fly there. They could even fly, for example, PER-DXB-BER!

I would very much welcome that. Just to make it clear: EK currently does not fly to BER / TXL because they are not allowed; EK has requested the route multiple times and got rejected every time (many think due to influence by LH). QF has the right to fly there, so this would make perfect sense and would be a great EK codeshare.

 

[RickyT84]

For me, I would like to see the reinstatemnt of PER-HKG, MEL-NRT (which will provide a direct link between Melbourne and Japan), MEL-PVG (although it is well served by QF's partner, MU), SYD-KUL (again, it is well served by its OW partner, MH). These flights are probably possible after the transfer and refit of the A330 fleet.

North America is well served already through its OW partner, AA and I agree with the other posters that YVR may worth another look (together with SFO).

As for Europe, I guess we just have to wait and see what the new alliance with EK brings, and as other posters mentioned, it would be great if QF can fly PER-DXB-BER (although this is more likely to be flown by EK once they get their rights sorted).