The demise of the flying kangaroo?

[whatmeworry]

All I know is, if I was Gold or above and QF didn't bump me to an earlier flight their balance sheet would live to regret it with what I could consume in the lounge!

 

[JohnK]

Qantas lost the plot and VA was marvellous.

Is this what you are hoping is going to happen? VA has never been marvellous and unless my definition changes they won't be anytime soon either.

I have no understanding of the QF union agreements. But I wonder why it's always seen that the workforce must be the first to make a move on this stuff. How about we drop the wage of all management who's title begins with a C? Let's drop it from 40 or 50 times the cost of a Flight Attendant to something more reasonable like cap it at 25 times the cost of a Flight Attendant.

Totally understand your point.

Around 25 years ago I was earning a decent salary and a CEO was earning 4 times my salary. Now my salary has doubled and that same CEO would be earning at least 20 times my salary.

For crying out loud why are some things left alone and not scrutinised further? Alan Joyce was given an ~$2million increase back in August and the CFO went from $1.28million/year to $1.43million/year. A $150,000 increase for the CFO? Why? Because Qantas' profits are increasing and their share price is rising out of control? That is obscene money to be paid and the salary increase is totally unjustified yet it got by without issues. Have I missed something somewhere?

 

[rogerkambah]

Yes, but they have PE on the routes to support long haul flights - primarily Australia to Europe and Australia(PER) to USA. QF has PE product to UK and US too. A side benefit for CX is that they can sell left over PE seats to those terminating in HKG as well (like QF do between DXB & LHR). QF do not connect to anywhere "long haul" from their A330s (apart from to codeshares) and therefore they are only selling to the medium haul market, mostly 7-9 hr routes. I question if demand is enough for PE on these length routes, most people seem to able to survive 7-9 hrs in Y, it's the 22 hrs that's more difficult in Y.



It seems people are willing to pay 2-3x Y fares for PE to go to Europe, but would enough be willing to pay the same multiple just for a relatively short hop to Asia (say $1500-2200) to make PE profitable?

Earlier this month I was quite happy to pay $2200 per pax for CBR-SYD-NRT return, SYD-NRT-SYD in PE. The outbound PE seats were bulkhead so heaps of legspace, return was upgrade to bulkhead J seats. As people get older or can afford to pay a little more they don't want to be jammed into a Y seat, even for a 9hr trip.

 

[Himeno]

Earlier this month I was quite happy to pay $2200 per pax for CBR-SYD-NRT return, SYD-NRT-SYD in PE. The outbound PE seats were bulkhead so heaps of legspace, return was upgrade to bulkhead J seats. As people get older or can afford to pay a little more they don't want to be jammed into a Y seat, even for a 9hr trip.

Agreed. I did this (CBR-SYD-NRT) in PE last year, and I'm looking at doing it again this year.
I am not going to book a 7-9 hour flight in Y, especially an overnight 7-9 hour flight.
If QF doesn't want PE on its A330 flights to Asia, then I am not going to book QF.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Not Toomied ... More like a victim of serval things but mainly deregulation and bring unable to adapt. Cheapest 21 day Apex fare in 1984 was around $215 return - needed a Saturday night stay as well.

That would be worth over $600 today. ( http://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/)

So there was plenty of fat before deregulation.

Yes agree there was no competition makes one fat and lazy

 

[drron]

Just read an article comparing investments in NZ v QF.very interesting.

The Middle-Earth airline - which has been listed on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) since 1997 – has in recent years been an excellent investment. Here are its figures on total return (including dividends):

• 1 year: +64.3%
• 3 years: +40% a year
• 5 years: +24.2% a year

The comparison with Qantas (QAN) makes uncomfortable reading for patriotic Australians – not that patriotism should ever enter into investment discussions. The flying kangaroo’s “return” figures – Qantas has not paid a dividend since FY09 – stand at:

• 1 year: –32.1%
• 3 years: –16.8% a year
• 5 years: –8.2% a year

Flying Kiwi Leaves Flapping Kangaroo Landbound - Share Cafe

 

[serfty]

Just read an article comparing investments in NZ v QF.very interesting.


Flying Kiwi Leaves Flapping Kangaroo Landbound - Share Cafe

shudder !

Correlating what they have done to their frequent flyer program with that make me glad QF has competition.

AirNZ effectively has no competition domestically.

 

[leadman]

We all have our opinions on the future of QF and some of us hope for the best, but flying out today with CX (far cheaper to TPE) and seeing the 2 new 787's in Jetstar livery, doing some promotional work at MEL, just doesnt feel right. Why couldn't QF get them and dump some of the old aircraft to Jetstar. Im sure there will be people who will tell me why and the logic behind it, but its that old "gut feeling" playing up again......

 

[Dick Savage]

.... if you haven't even considered buying from Qantas in the last 31 years, what would you actually know about Qantas in this day and age ...?

Almost fifty years an Aviation Professional: Line Pilot, Check and Training Captain, Chief Pilot; Director of Flight Operations; Fleet Owner; Aircraft Sales; (half a million miles a year) Brokerage; (same) Air Transportation Operations Consultant (300,000 international miles) etceteras. Far too many inadvertent QF code shares and QF domestic legs at the end of international itineraries. Little stuff like that. Capisce?

 

[Melburnian1]

http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/files/International_airline_activity_CY2013.pdf shows a marked drop in QF's market share of international passengers in and out of Oz.

In 2003, QF had a 31.4 per cent share.

By 2008, while QF had declined to 24.7 per cent, subsidiary JQ was contributing six per cent - a total of 30.7 per cent. I cannot recall if small Australian Airlines was still then operating with its CNS base.

In 2013, QF dropped a lot more to just 17 per cent while JQ (and arch competitor VA) were both on 7.7 per cent - a market share of 24.7 per cent for the QF group. Put another way, QF;s market share of passengers has dropped by a fifth in five years (i.e. 30.7 - 24.7 per cent = decline of a raw six per cent, which is about a fifth of 30.7).

NZ has dropped a bit in the last five years as VA has increased; EK continues to rise while SQ has dropped and at 8.9 per cent is now slightly behind EK's 9.3 per cent. SQ may well drop further with its MEL reduction from two by A380 daily each way to just one (with that aircraft being replaced by a B773 if I recall, but the four daily flights using various aircraft types retained each way MEl - SIN).

TG has lost a quarter of its business in percentage market share terms (although the size of the international flyers' market in and out of Oz continues to rise at five per cent a year, so any percentage drop in market share is not as bad as it might seem when passenger numbers are considered).

QF and EK have a major tieup but since QF does not own EK, one cannot lump these percentage figures easily in together.

 

[ChrisDPom]

On the last bit of Melburnian1's info, if you could work out how many EK passengers are QF code share from places like PER where I live, you could probably get a rough idea.

About 1/3rd of passengers I have shared flights and spoken to are QA code sharers.

I personally have flown PER-SYD-DXB-LHR twice since we lost the PER-SIN shuttle for to connect for the QA LHR flights. My last one is later this month and I have booked August and December QF code share 777 on EK to DBX then QA DBX-LHR return.

Only QFF Silver annually and fly Y so balancing budget, leg room seat selection and avoiding extra 12 hrs in the air means I am hoping I can get emergency exit seats on the EK 777s instead of booking same on QA 380 out of SYD or MEL

I have renewed my Q Club for another 2 years and will see how I go.

Many of you are corporate fliers so much higher status than me and others.

The "bread & butter" occasional flyers don't really care - just looking for best price vs trade off of how many hours flying and surviving transits in airports.

Qantas as stands cannot compete with subsidised airlines that don't have to make a profit like the Middle East trio.

I fly internally a bit for work + my trips to see ageing parents and tick off European bucket list destinations, so am in between the bread and butter and the very profitable firsties and business class bods (the "chocolate cakes"?).

i just hope that Qantas know what they are doing and survive such a tough environment as they are our icon airline and their loss would be a disaster.

NB: I supported Joyce on the lockout as I think he reduced the rot. But I also didn't have a flight booked then which might have changed my perception.

The damage BA took with their intermittent strikes shows how bad that sought of industrial action can be.

I have 2 German trips in June from London and have avoided one of my favourite airlines Lufthansa because the same is happening there at present. BA got my business instead as I refuse to fly Ryanscare and SleazyJet unless no choice after previous debacles.

Chris

 

[Melburnian1]

A far more civilised way to reach Germany from London would be by rail. See The Man in Seat Sixty-One - the train travel guide...

 

[desiredusername]

Around 25 years ago I was earning a decent salary and a CEO was earning 4 times my salary. Now my salary has doubled and that same CEO would be earning at least 20 times my salary.

For crying out loud why are some things left alone and not scrutinised further? Alan Joyce was given an ~$2million increase back in August and the CFO went from $1.28million/year to $1.43million/year. A $150,000 increase for the CFO? Why? Because Qantas' profits are increasing and their share price is rising out of control? That is obscene money to be paid and the salary increase is totally unjustified yet it got by without issues. Have I missed something somewhere?

Why? Simple: Blame the wages, sack more people and you get a pay rise. I think that's how it works

 

[ChrisDPom]

A far more civilised way to reach Germany from London would be by rail. See The Man in Seat Sixty-One - the train travel guide...

Quite agree Mr M and I am a Eurostar to Brussels then ICE to Koln or Frankfurt regular.

I have a 1st Class Eurail German Pass for when I am in Germany which I cannot recommend highly enough for flexibility, price and comfort.

Flying to Munich for both these trips so the train was just too long a journey.

Got BA cattle class for $132 each way incl. baggage so value for money.

If heading to Berlin, Koln, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Hannover or Hamburg - it would have been 06.55 am Eurostar and into my chosen city by around midday for my first German beer (bit early for a Leffe in Brussels but definetly one on the return leg).

 

[marki]

Red roo the quality at the Karratha regional lounge has fallen below acceptable standard I think


Sent from my iPhone using AustFreqFly

 

[wandering_fred]

View attachment 27982

Red roo the quality at the Karratha regional lounge has fallen below acceptable standard I think


Sent from my iPhone using AustFreqFly

Do they inspect the entrants for lost tools in their back pockets?

Fred

 

[leadman]

Maybe these were especially designed by Hewson et al. giving that rustic feeling!!!!!

 

[rogerkambah]

View attachment 27982

Red roo the quality at the Karratha regional lounge has fallen below acceptable standard I think


Sent from my iPhone using AustFreqFly

Saw some not quite as bad as these a couple of weeks ago in the SYD J (Dom) lounge. Not in the Flounge though.

 

[desiredusername]

They're the first class seats on tiger, silly