The pointless pathetic penny pinching that pushes away customers thread

[medhead]

Hi,
Oh, I don't think being courteous costs. That said, if you asked for a special deal at Coles ("could I have a few extra of these for free?" or "can I buy premium brand x but only pay for home brand y prices", I'm pretty sure you'd just get a "no" I guess a lot of QF staff continually get asked to do things, and they just get sick of it after a while.

IMO there is no excuse for outright rudeness or ridiculing your customers or calling them a liar. YMMV

 

[Pushka]

I think we can accept that business is tough for everyone these days. But Qantas need to adjust their marketing because the ads promise a lot but the service is delivering little.

For what it's worth, my partner as WP has never been able to bring forward his cheap flight if he arrives early on Qantas. On Virgin, he has never been refused.

 

[medhead]

I think we can accept that business is tough for everyone these days. But Qantas need to adjust their marketing because the ads promise a lot but the service is delivering little.

For what it's worth, my partner as WP has never been able to bring forward his cheap flight if he arrives early on Qantas. On Virgin, he has never been refused.

That's what I'm talking about the situation for everyone and the implication for Qantas as a competitive option.

(not just one little flight for me).

 

[BD1959]

Arguing that any of these things (e.g. flexibility to pax) should be extended to you is completely meaningless (as I can easily provide the above counter-example) unless you can show how it benefits the airline. And frankly, I've never seen anyone put together a model to show how it does.

I understand what is being said about expectations (mine is that booking mostly through my corporate TA I can be flexible at a cost - usually $77 per change) however, I do question the "no benefit to the airline".

If there is no benefit to the airline of flexibility, they why do QF offer it when transiting International - Domestic?

Back in the bad old days of manual check-in, I'd often be offered an earlier Friday afternoon ADL-MEL at check-in - why would they do that if there was no benefit to themselves?

Regards,

BD

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

Due to factors such as QFF devaluation, online ASA removal and the fleet grounding, I've removed the shackles of Qantas 'loyalty' and decided to book based on convenient routing and price. There hasn't been an occasion since where that's meant booking a QF flight, primarily because it is always uniformly more expensive than similar options. Therefore I may be partly responsible for the penny pinching and apologise to the OP.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Back in the bad old days of manual check-in, I'd often be offered an earlier Friday afternoon ADL-MEL at check-in - why would they do that if there was no benefit to themselves?

I think there's a difference between QF offering you something (they might have their own reasons "out back" for why they want to move you) vs. you asking for something and QF saying "no"

Secondly, IMHO, in the "bad old days", high fares and lack of competition hid a multitude of sins. It was a lot easier to have extra crew, and offer extra flexibility, when you had more money coming in through the front door.

 

[yohy?!]

I think it's entirely reasonable to expect what's in the T&C - in fact you can insist on them. Anything else is a bonus - and complaining that you're not able to change flights when you've bought a ticket that explicitly states that it's not changeable is ridiculous. There are good business reasons for QF to not allow changes - it would make the more expensive flexible fares redundant.

In your opinion and may I add off-topic in this discussion.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

In your opinion and may I add off-topic in this discussion.

Sure, it's my opinion. But at least I base it on the contract you enter into with QANTAS. That's the rationale behind my position.

I'm unsure how you are supporting your argument. It seems to be either "we're entitled to expect extra stuff from QF because it's reasonable" or "they did it before, so they should continue offering me extras (aka consistency)". I don't see how either position can be objectively supported, or in the alternative, what's in it for QF.

 

[BD1959]

I think there's a difference between QF offering you something (they might have their own reasons "out back" for why they want to move you) vs. you asking for something and QF saying "no"

I understand that but you stated that there is no benefit to the airline by the pax offering to be flexible. I'm merely offering that there may in fact be benefit if they themselves offer it from time-to-time. Even more so if their own reasons aren't apparent to the customer (in my case I was once told QF liked to move passengers forward because it then allowed the movement passengers booked on flexible tickets into the flight I was originally booked).

Secondly, IMHO, in the "bad old days", high fares and lack of competition hid a multitude of sins. It was a lot easier to have extra crew, and offer extra flexibility, when you had more money coming in through the front door.

Yes, but QF has also cut costs in the same time-frame (and it wasn't back in the days of the duopoly to which I'm referring!!)

Regards,

BD

 

[Flying mermaid]

Hi,
Oh, I don't think being courteous costs. That said, if you asked for a special deal at Coles ("could I have a few extra of these for free?" or "can I buy premium brand x but only pay for home brand y prices", I'm pretty sure you'd just get a "no" I guess a lot of QF staff continually get asked to do things, and they just get sick of it after a while.

Well that is the hard bit isn't - dealing with difficult people day after day is a challenge. However if you are in a service industry you have to do it. My staff were allowed to vent, swear and kick the desk if it helped after they got off the phone, but only after they had dealt with the client in a pleasant and courteous way. They had to say no a lot as well.....

 

[medhead]

Here is a model of benefit for the airline. Only in words as I don't have hard numbers with me. I also don't know margins. So from memory in 2013 Qantas got 79 flights from me average cost about $130-135. I checked luggage 4 times, I took the meal about 30% of the time call it 24 meals.

Qantas gained
79x whatever the margin is on the fares. Commercial in confidence not sure how much this is.
75x the charge in the fare for luggage. I'm not sure how to quantify fuel for 64kg over 726 miles?
55x the charge in the fare for the meal. ISTR a number around $20 for this. Is $1100 fair?
QFF gained from my earning about 400000 points and redeeming about 200000 points.
Holding $3500 of my cash on gift vouchers. What is the cost of interest payments for qantas bonds at junk status for 6 months on $3500?

They changed 9 flights for me. I'd guesstimate 4 of those were for bad weather. So 5 flights changed out of good will. The difference between the fare I purchased and a flexi fare? $150, maybe, I'm not sure. So total cost $750.

There was a cost for 79 lounge visits. But that is factored into the margin on the fares as the cost exists regardless of changing flights. I'd even argue changing the flights saved them money.

Between the meals and the unused checked luggage. They would be still well ahead of the margin on the fares.

Edit: and of course the good will of changing the flights would also encourage me to send my 38 odd VA flights back to Qantas = more margin. That was was feeling 2 days ago. But now that good will has been burned.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I strongly doubt that QF make any money at all on the NOQ type fares. If that's all they sold, the airline would be bust already.

 

[OATEK]

I understand that but you stated that there is no benefit to the airline by the pax offering to be flexible. I'm merely offering that there may in fact be benefit if they themselves offer it from time-to-time. Even more so if their own reasons aren't apparent to the customer (in my case I was once told QF liked to move passengers forward because it then allowed the movement passengers booked on flexible tickets into the flight I was originally booked).




Yes, but QF has also cut costs in the same time-frame (and it wasn't back in the days of the duopoly to which I'm referring!!)

Regards,

BD

I am sure we have all heard the announcements in the lounge from time to time if anyone wants an earlier flight, so QANTAS has good business reasons to move people up. But even if they never move a deep discount ticket holder up, they should be courteous and thinking about how to keep the customer happy, not belittle them.

 

[JohnK]

When I checked into Brisbane airport the next afternoon to fly to Sydney, I was offered an earlier flight....... So why not out of Townsville?

Different airport different rules. Or different staff without the relevant authority.

There have been times where airport check-in has refused request for earlier flight but request has been granted in the business lounge. I hardly ever travel without checked luggage though.

 

[medhead]

I strongly doubt that QF make any money at all on the NOQ type fares. If that's all they sold, the airline would be bust already.

1) I wasn't on an NOQ fare,
2) that is covered by the margin on the fare and does not impact the other monetary benefit they get.
3) They must make money on NOQ fares because they hand out benefits like complimentary lounge access, extra luggage allowance and other status benefits to people on those fares.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

$20 for an economy meal? I'd say a couple of dollars at most. alcohol of course would be extra.

 

[medhead]

$20 for an economy meal? I'd say a couple of dollars at most. alcohol of course would be extra.

As I said, I was recalling from memory of what I've read here. Pretty sure the published cost of the catering contract is $20 per meal. More than happy for anyone to provide the actual numbers.

 

[dalereardon]

Its not all about rules but about taking care of customers and treating your best customers really well.

I suggest Qantas take a read of this great book:

Five Star Service, One Star Budget: How to create magic moments for your customers that get you noticed, remembered and referred: Michael Heppell: 9780273707929: Amazon.com: Books

There are just so many things they are doing wrong in terms of customer service.

Dale.

 

[eosphoros]

Sure, it's my opinion. But at least I base it on the contract you enter into with QANTAS. That's the rationale behind my position.

I'm unsure how you are supporting your argument. It seems to be either "we're entitled to expect extra stuff from QF because it's reasonable" or "they did it before, so they should continue offering me extras (aka consistency)". I don't see how either position can be objectively supported, or in the alternative, what's in it for QF.

As has been pointed out, you are quite right regarding the conditions on the fare purchased. However, this thread is about the bigger picture: retaining customer loyalty and market share. Within that picture we are talking about flyers who throw a lot of business (relative to other private individuals) at Qantas. A corporation such as Qantas relying on their strict contractual rights when dealing with such customers is highly unlikely to increase goodwill. Rather, it is highly likely that such conduct will push customers away, which is ultimately the topic of this thread.

I would like to add that I agree completely with the many negative comments in this thread that are directed at Qantas. Meals, hot towels, newspapers, lounges, flexibility and staff attitude (though I personally find staff attitude is very much hit and miss on nearly every airline). It is the small things that tell the big picture.

Recently, there have been a plethora of new threads (not only from WPs) complaining about the noticeable extreme drop in the quality of Qantas' product, both hard and soft. I can only hope that RedRoo is keeping a close eye on this and the numerous other threads, and reporting the nature and quantum of complaints back to the bean counters at Mascot.

 

[Aeolus]

$20 for an economy meal? I'd say a couple of dollars at most. alcohol of course would be extra.

$20 for those lousy salad in a box? They will have to pay me at least double that to eat them or ten fold to even take a mouthful of the quinoa salad with 3 slices of beef... Yuck!