The totally off-topic thread

[penegal]

This is the kind of thing I'm wondering - how will the Australian Government (ATO) ensure that people are going to report and pay their HECS as required?

If you declare yourself a non-citizen for tax purposes, what will that mean?

Let's say you are working and then you go overseas. Let's say, for the sake of it, you change your tax status in Australia to a non-citizen. You come back after 15 years. Change status back to citizen for tax purposes. So the debt is still there, but you haven't had to pay a cent and the ATO doesn't care?

If you move overseas and die overseas as well, will the Australian Government come after your estate if you haven't declared how much you earned overseas in the time before you died?

I realise that the USA IRS has some rather extraordinary ways of keeping tabs on their citizens, much to the chagrin of the latter, with various threats of issuing charges for tax fraud or evasion, making it a scary prospect for some of those citizens to head back to the USA. I'm not sure the Australian Government has the same kind of thing going.

The correct term is non-resident for tax purposes. You are still an Australian citizen as long as you have your citizenship and a passport.
https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/Work-out-your-tax-residency/


Under the current scheme compulsory HECS repayment is calculated based on taxable income in your Australian Tax return (which by definition excludes foreign tax resident's income). There is a growing pile of HECS debt, some of which may never be paid back.

Hence the current plan to try to get individuals to voluntarily report their income and repay their HECS at the same rate as if they lived in Australia. As far as I can tell there is absolutely no incentive to do this, and no penalty for non-compliance, hence it's a bit of a joke.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Study-and-training-support-loans/Overseas-repayments/



The US IRS is different. US Income Tax is extremely pervasive. Generally speaking it is calculated on your total global income, irrespective of source, so you pay tax to the US government wherever you live. This means the US has tax treaties with almost every country meaning you don't pay income tax in the local jurisdiction.

 

[penegal]

The US IRS is different. US Income Tax is extremely pervasive. Generally speaking it is calculated on your total global income, irrespective of source, so you pay tax to the US government wherever you live. This means the US has tax treaties with almost every country meaning you don't pay income tax in the local jurisdiction.

This also explains why many of America's wealthiest individuals use companies, and trusts (both onshore and offshore) extensively to separate their income from them as an individual, thereby reducing their effective tax rate on that income.

 

[whatmeworry]

Brother forgot to give me his car keys before jetting off to NY. Shouldn't be a problem but hopefully don't need to move his car in 2 weeks.

 

[coco50]

MrMac had cancer treatment last year at The Alfred in Melbourne. (Thankfully a positive outcome). How lucky we are in this country to have, despite what $$$$ successive state and federal govts rip out, an amazing health system, world class research and treatment facilities, dedicated doctors. We always thought nurses were great but now we know that for sure! Truly the care we received from each and every one we came in contact with was amazing. You could not pay people enough, in my view, to adequately recompense them for their dedication. If people work in the emergency services (and teachers too)_ I have concluded it's because they have a real vocation and do not do it for the money alone. It astounds me that any of 'em have to go on strike to get better pay and conditions. Whereas politicians......

Nurses, paramedics, police, other emergency services workers and teachers deserve at least a 50% pay rise. What they have to cope with these days far outweighs the compensation provided by pay and entitlements.

R. Barlow PBOST

(Poor Bloody Old School Teacher)

 

[anat0l]

Nurses, paramedics, police, other emergency services workers and teachers deserve at least a 50% pay rise. What they have to cope with these days far outweighs the compensation provided by pay and entitlements.

R. Barlow PBOST

(Poor Bloody Old School Teacher)

I might need to have a chat with you as - mentioned above - I'm considering switching to secondary school teaching.

The amount they are prepared to pay some secondary school teachers here (admittedly, I believe this is the private system) seems quite large, though. Much more than a first or second year researcher's salary, and whilst that's not an amount that you would say is excessive at all, it's not completely unreasonable. A teacher probably won't be able to earn as much as a professor (unless you become a principal or maybe go to management in government), but professors are not a matter of years, rather a long painful slog between innumerate papers, grants won and basically a strong sense of not being able to be let go.

 

[coco50]

I might need to have a chat with you as - mentioned above - I'm considering switching to secondary school teaching.

The amount they are prepared to pay some secondary school teachers here (admittedly, I believe this is the private system) seems quite large, though. Much more than a first or second year researcher's salary, and whilst that's not an amount that you would say is excessive at all, it's not completely unreasonable. A teacher probably won't be able to earn as much as a professor (unless you become a principal or maybe go to management in government), but professors are not a matter of years, rather a long painful slog between innumerate papers, grants won and basically a strong sense of not being able to be let go.

Dear anat0l

I retired from teaching in 2006 as a high school deputy principal in the public system in NSW. My last pay advice gave my gross annual salary as $101 010. I have no idea what the pay is now but I know that the job is getting harder. I started teaching in Sydney in 1969 and after one year, moved to the country and spent the rest of my career in Albury, Narrandera, Lismore and Albury again. I love the job and I loved working with all sorts of kids and all sorts of teachers and all sorts of parents. The were a very small minority of each group that I wouldn't give you the time of day for. I loved the job but I am now glad that I am retired. I hope if you go into secondary teaching that you get as much fun out of it as I did and that any scars heal quickly.

 

[medhead]

A few years ago the government "froze" the cost of Nursing and Teaching degrees as "National Priority Areas" or something to that affect.

Not sure it helped enrollments much.

Many years ago, as a freshfaced Bachelor with Claytons* honours degree I filled in the application form for teaching. When picking up the form the receptionist was very indifferent to my approach, but agreed to give me a form anyway. When I returned it shortly later the same receptionist saw that I had maths and physics, gee didn't that mood change in a flash. the form is just a formality, please use the executive, double platinum lounge while I process your form, someone will be along to give you a foot massage in a second - or something like that. I decided they wanted me too much and walked.

* The degree that sandstone uni's give to students who've complete the honours course but who have undergraduate degrees from non-sandstone unis.

I'm sure that can be explained by the rounding. I'm not sure what excuse VA had.

More interesting when Qantas quote $139, but end up charging $139.01. Even so often I ponder about ringing to get back my $0.01

 

[Bundy Bear]

How much hope do you keep when it appears a lifelong dream will not become a reality?

That depends on how important it was to you.

Sounds like you had another set back; if I am right in my thinking.

For some people it is very important and will keep trying for ages.

For some of us we have goals or dreams, I remember reading sometimes that if you keep trying it can consume your life.

My current signature is a current thought I have, keep trying for something but enjoy where you are at.

 

[anat0l]

I have no idea what the pay is now but I know that the job is getting harder.

Why do you think the job is getting harder? (cf. what jobs are not getting harder?)

My current hunches are basically expectations are getting higher, the curriculum is changing rapidly (at least, faster in some parts of the country), and teachers are expected to do more outside of their "hours" - e.g. marking, classroom materials, professional development, etc.

Doing more outside of normal hours isn't new to me - almost every job I've had so far has had to involve, be it on my own volition or somewhat implied through the management, working more hours than you're actually paid. Of course in some ways you tried to minimise this, but in other ways you just did it because your own job would be easier (or you would be able to stave off a much more grave outcome) had you done it.

Maybe the part that might scare me out of this is dealing with students, and maybe their parents. I'm used to tutoring (classroom instruction, 10-30 students) and lecturing university students, especially first years, but that's still no comparison to even senior high school students, as the uni students are finally fully responsible for their learning. You can easily say to uni students, "You learn or you fail - make your choice," and you'd almost get away with it all the time. Can't quite do the same to school students, even though they still need to assume primary responsibility for their learning especially after the end of compulsory education.

If there are any parents here, could you comment on what you expect (and what you don't expect) out of the system?

 

[whatmeworry]

Have a friend whose son is an actor. In his early 30s. Started brilliantly but it doesn't seem to have transferred to regular or indeed much ongoing work, despite stints in Sydney, LA & NYC. How many workshops and auditions can he keep going to before pulling the pin? I don't know. it must be soul destroying to keep on doing your absolute best - and missing out. However it's his dream and he is single minded about it.

Sometimes, however, it is better for your pysche, soul, whatever, to draw a line and move on. Not easy, of course.

Look at Vince Colosimo, in divorce proceedings it revealed he laboured on building sites. Cameron Daddo relocated to LA and started a business to pay the bills in between jobs.

 

[Bundy Bear]

Someone should create an app, that googles the phone number of any incoming caller, and displays their name if their number is publicly listed.

Especially relevant for Real Estate agents whose numbers I have no desire to save in my local phone book.

But you don't get paid enough to move to a better place in a better location, well so you tell me anyway.

In other news I am so over this humidity.

 

[whatmeworry]

Nurses, paramedics, police, other emergency services workers and teachers deserve at least a 50% pay rise. What they have to cope with these days far outweighs the compensation provided by pay and entitlements.

R. Barlow PBOST

(Poor Bloody Old School Teacher)

My brother has just worked 5 years as a special needs Teacher. Despite it all they wouldn't give him a full time role, so he said enough is enough and declined another 2 year extension despite them training him 3 units short of a Masters Degree. So a pay rise is nice but security is better.

 

[coco50]

Why do you think the job is getting harder? (cf. what jobs are not getting harder?)

I feel that there is a lot more difficulty in engaging students in learning (I am being euphemistic here). There are increasing expectations on teachers and the school to solve the problems that many parents and the wider community are unwilling or unable to cope with. There is increasing substance abuse among students and younger students are taking this up at an alarming rate. Resourcing of schools in the public sector is poor and while it it probably better in the private sector, it is still much lower than it should be. The use of standardised testing - NAPLAN in years 3, 5, 7 and 9 creates a lot of stress in teachers, students and parents, with the school and teachers copping the blame if results are lower than the norm. Many schools "teach to the tests" which defeats the whole purpose of them. My publisher even publishes a range of books that schools use to "prepare" students for these tests. I always thought that good, solid teaching was the best preparation.

 

[medhead]

both my parents were teachers and there has always been the expectation of doing stuff out of hours. the problem is the teachers who are slack and don't do that stuff.

The difficulty, I imagine, is arises from children being forced to attend school. It is also often argued that behaviour standards have dropped, so some children are disruptive little poos. The ratio of these students in public schools has probably increased. When I went to school the disruptiveness was semi regulated by the students in the class who did want to learn. But this is probably decreased these days with the much greater move to send kids to private schools for the (false) perception that such schools are better. You mention jobs in private schools, so it shouldn't be a problem.

What do I expect from my kids school. To teach them, to take the time to actually help them learn, to let me know when I need to step in to help them learn. To not refuse children from doing a subject if they don't get a B or better and they decide it will be too much work to help the child achieve that result. To not teach them that the world is 6000 years old and dinosaurs were on Noah's ark. To not incorrectly apply university marking standards in year 8 - when I child hands in an assignment without their name you don't deem that they didn't hand in the assignment and give them zero, to catch them out because that is what universities do. when universities actually have a fixed deduction per day late.

These are all beefs I have with out school. Fortunately SWMBO has banned me from raising these issues with the teachers, after the SMS incident. Sms the day after great grandfather's funeral to say that child had a detention for being late to school. My reply was terse.

Why do you think the job is getting harder? (cf. what jobs are not getting harder?)

My current hunches are basically expectations are getting higher, the curriculum is changing rapidly (at least, faster in some parts of the country), and teachers are expected to do more outside of their "hours" - e.g. marking, classroom materials, professional development, etc.

Doing more outside of normal hours isn't new to me - almost every job I've had so far has had to involve, be it on my own volition or somewhat implied through the management, working more hours than you're actually paid. Of course in some ways you tried to minimise this, but in other ways you just did it because your own job would be easier (or you would be able to stave off a much more grave outcome) had you done it.

Maybe the part that might scare me out of this is dealing with students, and maybe their parents. I'm used to tutoring (classroom instruction, 10-30 students) and lecturing university students, especially first years, but that's still no comparison to even senior high school students, as the uni students are finally fully responsible for their learning. You can easily say to uni students, "You learn or you fail - make your choice," and you'd almost get away with it all the time. Can't quite do the same to school students, even though they still need to assume primary responsibility for their learning especially after the end of compulsory education.

If there are any parents here, could you comment on what you expect (and what you don't expect) out of the system?

My brother has just worked 5 years as a special needs Teacher. Despite it all they wouldn't give him a full time role, so he said enough is enough and declined another 2 year extension despite them training him 3 units short of a Masters Degree. So a pay rise is nice but security is better.

hahaha. When my mum started teaching all the female teachers were sacked at the end of the year and then rehired at the end of January. She had to resign when she got married. She had to resign when she had children. Anything to save a $, still seems to apply.

 

[whatmeworry]

hahaha. When my mum started teaching all the female teachers were sacked at the end of the year and then rehired at the end of January. She had to resign when she got married. She had to resign when she had children. Anything to save a $, still seems to apply.

Not talking about the 50's. Were talking about post Jeff Kennett Victoria. Some Teachers are still on the old awards, meaning they leave their position and it's still there in seven years time.

 

[medhead]

Not talking about the 50's. Were talking about post Jeff Kennett Victoria. Some Teachers are still on the old awards, meaning they leave their position and it's still there in seven years time.

Neither am I. Mum was a child during the entire 1950s and they'd stopped sending girls to the cotton mills by then.

Just saying that job security has always been an issue, no doubt indicative of the lack of value placed on teachers.

 

[TomVexille]

hahaha. When my mum started teaching all the female teachers were sacked at the end of the year and then rehired at the end of January. She had to resign when she got married. She had to resign when she had children. Anything to save a $, still seems to apply.

I hear that still happens

 

[anat0l]

I feel that there is a lot more difficulty in engaging students in learning (I am being euphemistic here). There are increasing expectations on teachers and the school to solve the problems that many parents and the wider community are unwilling or unable to cope with. There is increasing substance abuse among students and younger students are taking this up at an alarming rate. Resourcing of schools in the public sector is poor and while it it probably better in the private sector, it is still much lower than it should be. The use of standardised testing - NAPLAN in years 3, 5, 7 and 9 creates a lot of stress in teachers, students and parents, with the school and teachers copping the blame if results are lower than the norm. Many schools "teach to the tests" which defeats the whole purpose of them. My publisher even publishes a range of books that schools use to "prepare" students for these tests. I always thought that good, solid teaching was the best preparation.

Interesting reflections. Long post coming up.

I can only go on based what I know from the outside, which includes media, talking to a few people, inklings and what not.

As for the engaging students in learning, that is an interesting aspect. As a university tutor, I found over time this issue somewhat pervading into my thoughts, especially when students didn't seem to ask questions as often, be it in class or via email when I told them they had free reign to do so (cf. other tutors who kind of get "sick of it" and start to ignore emails or write very short ones). It didn't seem to dawn on me too much because it was still the primary responsibility of the students for their own learning, and personal interactive feedback as well as teaching evaluations were returned positive (still well above the teaching cohort higher average) with good comments, so if I was doing anything wrong, it was very difficult to find out.

I'm not hot on the idea that schools are being saddled with issues that the wider community and many parents are unwilling or unable to cope with. The "unwilling" ones are inexcusable, but I suspect that schools can't "get out" of this one mainly due to the overall voices outside the school speaking louder than the voices of reason. The "unable" ones are much more interesting, as it suggests that people really haven't spelt out what those issues are, and then moreover why should schools be saddled with the responsibility of dealing with those. That is not to say that there are some issues that may be better dealt with by schools or should be, however I think at the moment the general sentiment is that schools are simply being "dumped" with these issues to deal with without any proper consideration at all. People may think that having a higher education budget input and paying higher private school fees justifies all of this, but it is actually unfair on everyone involved.

I know that when I was still in high school the issue of resourcing and funding was brought up through the school. We were the best state high school in our city, but the publicity focused more on the imbalance of government funding going to private schools rather than public, not necessarily about prima facie under- or lack of funding. I guess what I really don't know is what are the specific resources that are lacking sufficient funding, and how critical are these. For example, whilst I don't want to be dismissive sounding, another tennis court is not likely high on the funding agenda, however if we are talking about new classrooms, replacement furniture, new IT infrastructure to support new learning styles, repairs on buildings....

The NAPLAN tests are an interesting bunch. I'm not sure the powers that be, let alone the community, are getting the feedback they want from them, if any useful at all. Supposing that I teach senior high school, where NAPLAN tests don't exist, I wonder if there is less pressure in that regard, though then the focus is more on senior tests, which may or may not be reflected back onto the school (e.g. in QLD that is QCS; in other states it's the equivalent of HSC). Certainly in QLD in senior high, there is quite a bit of "teach to the tests", or more specifically blocks of time put aside devoted to training for the QCS; remedial classes are made available for those who need to bring their mathematics standards up to a minimum grade 10 level; hours upon hours of reading comprehension exercises. The quintessential is of course the QCS practice test done under equivalent testing conditions - some schools (notably private schools) do this a hell lot more than others. There is also a conspiracy where the top private schools have "encouraged" the not-so-bright students to "miss out" on sitting the QCS in order to boost the overall school average. Since QLD OPs are highly dependent on a school's overall average performance in the QCS......

In a way, we all "teach to the tests", with some exception. This is where uni tutoring may be very different, as - at least for the courses I tutored - students had access to past exams. The irony of it all is that the content rarely changed from semester to semester. Whilst all the content we teach in class can viably be on the exam, when the exam is written, there will always be some questions rewritten to test the same material in a different way (what students like to refer as "tricks"), or critical thinking questions (especially those with no numerical answer, which catches out the "robots" who can't actually understand what they've gone through in the working). Even then, the questions would be at least numerically different but for most part the content was very similar each semester. At face value, this should make it almost impossible to fail, though that doesn't mean everyone will get a High Distinction either (we don't bell curve). Yet the failure rate has been fairly consistent from semester to semester, at best being about 3% from the average. We find this is mainly because people don't listen and don't prepare (from marking exams, it is not unusual to see someone turn in what is basically a blank empty answer booklet for a 2 hour exam); so much for "teaching to the tests"...

 

[anat0l]

The worst part of high school in a way? So much effort is put towards a few tests in order to produce a single result to get into university (this is of course assuming that the student wants to pursue a university education).

As soon as you clear that result to get into university, that result you worked so hard for is essentially for forfeit, except for the first year or two in university where you put your school results on your resume to get a job.

I got an OP 1 after high school. More than enough to get me into the degree I wanted (which only needed OP 8 at the time). On reflection, as soon as I was accepted into the programme at uni, that OP 1 was as good as useless to me, as if it never mattered that I got it.

Essentially in university you get shaken down and everyone is a "level playing field". The odd thing is, assuming you enter a field of study similar to what you did in high school (especially if your high school subjects were prerequisites for your university degree), you tend to (re)learn about 10-90% of what you did in high school, with the main difference being that you learn a lot faster.

The only main take away from high school to university is "pre-setting" of particular technical competencies (not necessarily well ingrained knowledge) and the ability to learn. The result is more or less superficial unless it doesn't get one to where they want to go. It is for a similar reason that I think the choice of primary school seems even less significant than that of high school, yet many parents panic like absolute wrecks on the correct primary school to send their kids. But I'd prefer to hear a parent's weigh in on this argument.

 

[penegal]

anat0l - Your post is too long.

Australian high school leavers are so illiterate that they do not know how to read more than 160 characters.



NB - Whilst this post is tongue in cheek, it is unfortunately also true.