The way out of lockdowns etc in Australia

[OZDUCK]

I think it's a long bow to draw to state that South Korea is managing this poorly.

Their stated strategy is to test, test, test, isolate, isolate, isolate and close down targeted parts of their country to manage outbreaks, whilst keeping as much of the economy open for as long a stretch as possible. This involves sawtoothing some businesses. Open, closed, open, closed as breakouts dictate, either small scale if it can be sufficiently controlled or larger scale if that's what's required. That seems to me to be exactly the strategy that (at least parts of ) Australia wants to emulate. In fact, we're already seeing it here - schools opening, then specific schools closing for short periods when cases are found.

So if the disease is still within the community, despite current low numbers, and outbreaks are not only possible, but expected, then what South Korea is doing is exactly what Australia will be hoping to do unless you can eradicate. As ScoMo has said on numerous occasions, eradication is not the goal for us.

Yes, I made a poor choice of words and example I will play the sympathy card as I am currently waiting for a root canal treatment on Tuesday and the pain is just being held in check by antibiotics. Dentists have only resumed full activities earlier this week and are frantically busy and Monday is a Public Holiday - Western Australia Day.

There was an interesting comment in today's local paper. What I think their argument seemed to be is that the Premier almost had no choice but to dramatically relax the restrictions. He is said to have received medical advice that it was appropriate to relax them to the new levels. As he has relied on the same medical advice to justify keeping the border closed then he couldn't be seen to act strongly on one bit of advice from his medical advisers and then reject another from the same source. And yes, there is no sign of the state border opening in the short term.

 

[Pushka]

On the contrary, I think a lot of people believe that localised elimination is possible and, in fact, achievable. One of the ways to preserve this is to keep borders closed. I read what's been announced in WA and it doesn't make me think "what happens when WA opens their borders?" It makes me think if WA will open their borders in the foreseeable future.

Allowing pubs, cafes and restaurants to conform to a 2sqm rule instead of a 4sqm rule means that many, many more will be economically viable and their businesses will be saved. But as @lovetravellingoz points out, that suggests that they believe they will be living without the virus, rather than with it. That's inconsistent with opening up travel to areas with known community transmission.

I expect people much smarter than me in WA have done the cost-benefit analysis of those two scenarios. So far everything seems to me to be internally consistent with a scenario that keeps the WA state borders closed for longer.

I'm thinking WA is more locally focussed and separate to the more eastern states and could sustain a more localised economy for quite some time.

 

[VPS]

Yes the NZ App is quite different to the Australian one, and people need to check in to businesses/places that they visit.. The app needs to be installed and on to check in which means scanning the QR code.


How NZ COVID Tracer works
Use NZ COVID Tracer to check in to places you visit by scanning the official Ministry of Health QR codes.

NZ COVID Tracer app

People keep saying NZ has done a great job but if they have to scan an app before you go somewhere then why can't we. It wouldn't bother me at all

 

[jakeseven7]

I'm thinking WA is more locally focussed and separate to the more eastern states and could sustain a more localised economy for quite some time.

Better tell that to all their poor tourism operators and anyone up or down stream from them

 

[OZDUCK]

I'm thinking WA is more locally focussed and separate to the more eastern states and could sustain a more localised economy for quite some time.

I tend to think that is correct and there are some interesting figures from the State Tourism website. Apparently W.A has just over 5% of national "domestic visitors", including Business Travelers. But they did spend $1.95 Billion here last year, about 6% of the national spending, and that is still an awful lot of money to take out of the state.

With Bali out of the picture for a while where will all that local Bintang money go?

https://www.tourism.wa.gov.au/Publications%20Library/Research%20and%20reports/2019/YE%20Dec%2019/Attachment%204%20-%20NVS%20Fast%20Facts%20-%20YE%20Dec%2019.PDF

 

[lovetravellingoz]

People keep saying NZ has done a great job but if they have to scan an app before you go somewhere then why can't we. It wouldn't bother me at all

NZ has done very well, but like everyone except perhaps Taiwan have not been perfect.

ie Their initial contact tracing was very low and it took longer to ramp it up as well. Australia had a higher level of contact tracing ability when Covid 19 hit and we ramped it up quicker.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the speed and depth of their lockdown could probably have been milder to achiever the same result. ie Butchers has to close so quickly, and were not allowed to trade, and so much meet was just left in their fridges to spoil.


Like you I would have no problem with a NZ type app, but I guess they powers that be in Australia deemed that too much of an invasion of one's civil liberties.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I'm thinking WA is more locally focussed and separate to the more eastern states and could sustain a more localised economy for quite some time.

A lot of the FIFO's are not from WA and no doubt will be getting toey about about being locked into WA.

I know one FIFO who was given the choice of temporarily relocating to WA for the period that border restrictions last, or staying in Vic on full pay. She went option B

 

[Pushka]

A lot of the FIFO's are not from WA and no doubt will be getting toey about about being locked into WA.

I know one FIFO who was given the choice of temporarily relocating to WA for the period that border restrictions last, or staying in Vic on full pay. She went option B

I think they get exceptions, certainly into SA.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I tend to think that is correct and there are some interesting figures from the State Tourism website. Apparently W.A has just over 5% of national "domestic visitors", including Business Travelers. But they did spend $1.95 Billion here last year, about 6% of the national spending, and that is still an awful lot of money to take out of the state.

In terms of $ spent if you add interstate and intrastate spend for 2019 in WA 31% was from interstate visitors. With little ability to travel overseas there is great potential for interstate $ to be a lot higher.

Internationals spent about 20% more in WA than did interstate visitors. With no internationals and no interstate visitors that is about 50 % of 2019 revenue gone.

Now yes you would expect that intrastate tourism revenue would increase, but without interstate tourism which should also be potentially a lot higher then tourism will most likely continue to struggle.


PS: Remember too that WA's population is 10% of Australia and so for example a 5% market share is proportionality higher on a per capita basis.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I read what's been announced in WA and it doesn't make me think "what happens when WA opens their borders?" It makes me think if WA will open their borders in the foreseeable future.

That is how I read it too, and that suggests to me that reopening will be one of the last steps they take.

 

[RooFlyer]

Just got myself tested. Drive-through clinic in small town next to mine. They said that had 40 done prior to lunch and there were 5 of us in cars when I rocked up just after lunch. If they get 120 total over the weekend (today is the first day), that will be about 10% of the local permanent population.

Tas doing about 900 tests/day at the moment, close to its peak.

 

[Pushka]

Just got myself tested. Drive-through clinic in small town next to mine. They said that had 40 done prior to lunch and there were 5 of us in cars when I rocked up just after lunch. If they get 120 total over the weekend (today is the first day), that will be about 10% of the local permanent population.

Tas doing about 900 tests/day at the moment, close to its peak.

Random or symptoms? I'd be fine if they set up walk ins just randomly and I'd likely get tested.

 

[Gremlin]

Yes, I made a poor choice of words and example I will play the sympathy card as I am currently waiting for a root canal treatment on Tuesday and the pain is just being held in check by antibiotics. Dentists have only resumed full activities earlier this week and are frantically busy and Monday is a Public Holiday - Western Australia Day.

There was an interesting comment in today's local paper. What I think their argument seemed to be is that the Premier almost had no choice but to dramatically relax the restrictions. He is said to have received medical advice that it was appropriate to relax them to the new levels. As he has relied on the same medical advice to justify keeping the border closed then he couldn't be seen to act strongly on one bit of advice from his medical advisers and then reject another from the same source. And yes, there is no sign of the state border opening in the short term.

Ouch! Hope Tuesday comes around quickly.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I think they get exceptions, certainly into SA.

In WA if from outside of WA they had to choose to relocate temporarily if they wanted to work.

WA to entice FIFO workers to relocate there permanently

Western Australia positions itself as an economically and socially desirable place to live and work, post-pandemic, for FIFO workers from the eastern states.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drron]

I think they get exceptions, certainly into SA.

You actually don't need permission to get into SA unlike the other states.you just have to go into quarantine for 14 days.FIFO may get exemption from the Quarantine if doing so at work site.

 

[Pushka]

You actually don't need permission to get into SA unlike the other states.you just have to go into quarantine for 14 days.FIFO may get exemption from the Quarantine if doing so at work site.

Yes, everyone can enter but FIFO don't have to quarantine I think.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yes, everyone can enter but FIFO don't have to quarantine I think.

Looks like in SA it is mainly yes to FIFO from interstate, but in WA it is a no.

FAQ for FIFO Workers and Travel Restrictions - The Australian Workers' Union

COVID-19 and Your Rights at Work FIFO Travel Update (July 2020) Keeping fly-in fly-out workers safe during the COVID-19 pandemic has been a key focus for the Australian Workers’ Union. AWU officials and delegates have been working since day one of the crisis to keep the mining and oil and gas...

www.awu.net.au

 

[drron]

So in TAS and QLD an essential Health Care Worker needs an exemption but has to self isolate in their accommodation but can go to work.In WA they need to have 14 day mandatory quarantine and not work.Some hospitals in WA will give you half pay in quarantine though you need to pay for quarantine.In the NT the same system though you get full pay in quarantine.
I wouldn't work in SA so haven't looked at that.

 

[RooFlyer]

Random or symptoms? I'd be fine if they set up walk ins just randomly and I'd likely get tested.

No symptoms, just 'doing my bit' to get testing coverage done. There are three bus-based mobile test units doing the rounds of the state's rural areas (its a small state ). Also permanent test places in Hobart, Launceston and 2 in the north-west. Anyone can rock up.

 

[RooFlyer]

Just got myself tested.

No symptoms, just 'doing my bit' to get testing coverage done.

Whew. Result = negative ; 3 days to report back to me, including Sunday.

Separately, I'm attempting to visit a friend in a nursing home. I guess many here have done it by now - need to get evidence of my flu shot, and make an appointment for a one hour spot. Temperature will be taken on arrival and the usual grilling about activities.

Tas now 18 days without any new cases (back to just 2, imports, then abt 7 days more back to the end of the tail of the main outbreak). My GP, who is in a somewhat vulnerable category (+60 and diabetes, he told me) is about to come out of his self-isolation at his rural house, where he's been doing telehealth, and return to the city practice.

Yet the bloody Tas Government is still dragging the chain on opening up. I think we are now the slowest in the country (no Tas jokes, please ) . Given we are the most easily isolated from the rest of the country this attitude is getting pretty annoying. Its as if the Chief Medical Officer wants to preserve 'his' now clean bill of health forever and dares not make a change. Its not necessarily the next few weeks that concerns me (but it does for all those unemployed people, closed businesses etc), but rather what his reaction will be when the next, inevitable case occurs here. Down come the shutters again, 100%??