The way out of lockdowns etc in Australia

[jase05]

whereas our state premiers want to continue the damage even until September.

I think only the QLD Premier has mooted September.
Premier Marshall has said SA will open up when other states get to an acceptable level of cases and he has maintained that since day 1. If Victoria can get their numbers down I think we may lift our border restrictions in as little as a month

 

[OATEK]

But as NZ is slightly less than 20% of Australia's population they need many less OS visitors than Australia does to fully re open their tourist industry.

On top of that as I have said a few times they have already opened restaurants and bars with up to 100 patrons.So their domestic tourism sector will end up having less damage than ours and be ready for an upswing in the not too distant future whereas our state premiers want to continue the damage even until September.

I don't think direct comparisons can be made, whether between AUS-NZ or between mainland states. Too speculative at this stage. NZ might come out faster, but then stall (a bit like weight loss ) owing to volumes, cash available to consumers etc. If the Covid-19 virus epidemic is unprecedented, the recovery is likely to be also.

 

[drron]

Peter Beattie has now come out criticizing the QLD Premier over the border lockdown.

Plus QLD Health has referred the Rocky nurse to the Crime and Misconduct Commission and suspended her.That might not go down too well.

Rockhampton nurse referred to corruption watchdog over aged-care scare

Queensland Health has confirmed the nurse, who continued to work while unwell, has been suspended, pending the outcome of an investigation.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

 

[lovetravellingoz]

But as NZ is slightly less than 20% of Australia's population they need many less OS visitors than Australia does to fully re open their tourist industry.

My point was their "Tourist hole" with respect to their economy is proportionally larger than Australia's and so they would need far more new tourists than Australia to just break even, and way way more to actually outperform the Australian economy as a whole.

In Covid 19 days being more reliant on international tourism is a problem, not an asset.

Australia can still export iron ore even if we are not importing tourists.

On top of that as I have said a few times they have already opened restaurants and bars with up to 100 patrons.So their domestic tourism sector will end up having less damage than ours and be ready for an upswing in the not too distant future whereas our state premiers want to continue the damage even until September.

1. What is happening just this week will not make much difference. ie Vic will have 100 patrons by mid July as well. Other states are all re-opening dining. NSW 50 from 1 June etc.
2. Restaurants and bars are mainly not filled with tourists. Some are fn course, but most are not and in Australia most that need the tourists gain more from Australian tourists than international ones.

Post automatically merged: May 23, 2020

I saw an article stating that in Victoria playgrounds and skate parks aren’t re-opening just yet

On my walk last week the large skate park not far from me was being well used.

But yes the restrictions are still:

What kind of playgrounds are prohibited?
It is prohibited to play on outdoor playground equipment and skate parks that are situated in a public open space. These facilities represent a risk of coronavirus (COVID-19) transmission because of the numbers of people using them, the inability to control access and the lack of regular cleaning and disinfection.

Playgrounds situated in early learning centres and schools, where access is controlled, are not included in this prohibition.

 

[jase05]

Peter Beattie has now come out criticizing the QLD Premier over the border lockdown.

Plus QLD Health has referred the Rocky nurse to the Crime and Misconduct Commission and suspended her.That might not go down too well.

Rockhampton nurse referred to corruption watchdog over aged-care scare

Queensland Health has confirmed the nurse, who continued to work while unwell, has been suspended, pending the outcome of an investigation.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

I do love how these people that damaged their state whilst in power throw barbs from the cheap seats now

 

[Bundy Bear]

Watching sky news over the past few days their argument was for opening state borders to help with tourism, but if you listen to any people with a medical bias then they say the borders should remain closed.
Now you have Qld and NSW throwing rocks at each other.
The federal government did set down a 3 step policy to be COVID Safe Australia.

Queensland is planning to go to step 2 in mid June and then step 3 in mid July, so I am hoping they stick to that time frame. I am hoping that they stick to the plan of opening up the Qld/NSW border in early July, I am sure there a few people who live in NSW that have friends or relatives southern Queensland that they can't visit at the moment.

There is slow and then there is dragging the chain so I am hoping we don't have to wait until September until we can travel freely again.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Watching sky news over the past few days their argument was for opening state borders to help with tourism, but if you listen to any people with a medical bias then they say the borders should remained closed.

Medical advice seems to vary on this. Some clearly state it is now unnecessary.

Given the likely number of infected people still in Australia the border restrictions that are in place it would seem to be unlikely to actually prevent any significant number of new cases in the future.

There are quite a number of "essential workers" and other still moving between states and infections from them do not seem to be a significant issue any more.

Early on infections from returning international travellers and from cruise ships (who in turn were infected by internationals) were causing transmission across borders transmissions, but these sources have now been cut off by quarantine.

On the con size is that the economic damage extends many businesses well beyond the tourist market and the mental health damage to many as well who cannot travel but who want to.

So the question to me is are we going to go forward with the control measures in place, including Covid Safe, ramped up contact tracing etc, or are we going to remain in my mind unnecessarily frozen.

Remember to that deaths and severe health problems are a small % of those that actually get infected. So if we say have say 1000 new infections (ignoring the international quarantines that are still occurring, and will continue) that there will only be now a small number of people from that 1000 that we are preventing harm to with these very strict measures. Is preventing harm to that small group, enough to offset the health harm (including mortality) and economic harm (which in turn causes other health harm) to others? To my mind it no longer is.

 

[Flashback]

Everything needs to be looked at in context though, Australia never really went into full lockdown i.e. compared to what we've seen over in Europe. So while there's still some things y'all are not able to do, there's still a heck of a lot you can do. It's not so bad for you guys ......

 

[RB]

I saw an article stating that in Victoria playgrounds and skate parks aren’t re-opening just yet

The one I was referring to is in NSW. I assume the info I am reading and the sign with regards 10 people at a time is still current

 

[jakeseven7]

I think only the QLD Premier has mooted September.
Premier Marshall has said SA will open up when other states get to an acceptable level of cases and he has maintained that since day 1. If Victoria can get their numbers down I think we may lift our border restrictions in as little as a month

No worries, can someone tell Premier Andrews to stop testing so much to make the other Premiers feel better so they can open their borders...

Watching sky news over the past few days...

There is slow and then there is dragging the chain so I am hoping we don't have to wait until September until we can travel freely again.

Lost me at Sky News sorry

I do however agree with the sentiment in your last paragraph. Unfortunately our bumbling QLD premier has unwittingly backed herself into a corner with her weird ‘September’ brain fart that now has every major gun rounded on her (apart from Victoria who seem above all the dog fights).

Medical advice seems to vary on this. Some clearly state it is now unnecessary.

So the question to me is are we going to go forward with the control measures in place, including Covid Safe, ramped up contact tracing etc, or are we going to remain in my mind unnecessarily frozen.

Remember to that deaths and severe health problems are a small % of those that actually get infected.

Agree - the effort and focus now needs to to be squarely centred on the vulnerable.

How do we protect those most likely to suffer more serious consequences from contracting the disease whilst returning everyone else to ‘normal’ ASAP.

 

[jase05]

No worries, can someone tell Premier Andrews to stop testing so much to make the other Premiers feel better so they can open their borders...

Perhaps ask Andrews why it took them so long to ramp up their testing. SA did their blitz early and were along way ahead of Victoria in testing until recently.
Whilst the Cedar debacle and the McDonalds outbreak were still going SA was never going to relax border controls. No new cases in Victoria from either of those outbreaks today so hopefully if that keeps up the border will open sooner rather than later

 

[jakeseven7]

Perhaps ask Andrews why it took them so long to ramp up their testing. SA did their blitz early and were along way ahead of Victoria in testing until recently.

SA aren’t now and have eased off. But regardless it simply doesnt matter that they have fallen behind because it is clear that the virus is circulating more widely in all states than testing is picking up.

People using identified cases as their proxy for making/not making decisions should simply be focussed on one thing : we have to figure out how to live with the virus, perhaps indefinitely.

 

[jase05]

SA aren’t now and have eased off. But regardless it simply doesnt matter that they have fallen behind because it is clear that the virus is circulating more widely in all states than testing is picking up.

People using identified cases as their proxy for making/not making decisions should simply be focussed on one thing : we have to figure out how to live with the virus, perhaps indefinitely.

Agreed that we are going to have to live with it but I don’t believe it’s circulating more widely in all states. We have had 1 case in 30 days now and that was from a passenger returning from OS. Surely if there was more of it floating around SA then people would be presenting themselves to hospitals by now.
We can’t keep the borders closed forever and we can’t keep the virus out forever but until these couple of clusters in Victoria have been tidied up I don’t have a huge issue with the border remaining closed for another few weeks. We are quite unique in SA that no one travels here in winter anyway but can understand why the tourism industry needs the QLD border open

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Perhaps ask Andrews why it took them so long to ramp up their testing. SA did their blitz early and were along way ahead of Victoria in testing until recently.
Whilst the Cedar debacle and the McDonalds outbreak were still going SA was never going to relax border controls. No new cases in Victoria from either of those outbreaks today so hopefully if that keeps up the border will open sooner rather than later

Yes Victoria has gone so badly overall that they almost now have as many cases per 100,000 as SA has.

Given the current situation relaxing border controls benefits everyone in Australia. It is a control measure that now has extremely little benefit if at all. It has major dis-benefits.


PS: While I live in Victoria I have direct family in two others states and less direct in most of the others.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

. We are quite unique in SA that no one travels here in winter anyway

I very much doubt that.

I used to fly into Adelaide for business ever six weeks in a previous employ.

There is a lot of business travel that currently is prevented from occurring.

There are SA based companies, consultants and others who are hurting.

And they are also many other reasons why people need to travel interstate.

 

[Pushka]

Agreed that we are going to have to live with it but I don’t believe it’s circulating more widely in all states. We have had 1 case in 30 days now and that was from a passenger returning from OS. Surely if there was more of it floating around SA then people would be presenting themselves to hospitals by now.
We can’t keep the borders closed forever and we can’t keep the virus out forever but until these couple of clusters in Victoria have been tidied up I don’t have a huge issue with the border remaining closed for another few weeks. We are quite unique in SA that no one travels here in winter anyway but can understand why the tourism industry needs the QLD border open

My bold. But if it is floating around then it shows we are damn well coping with it. Four of Victorias positives were from those in quarantine. They should not count. But then the Other states would have no reason not to open their borders. Can't have that just yet. Apparently.

 

[jase05]

I very much doubt that.

I used to fly into Adelaide for business ever six weeks in a previous employ.

There is a lot of business travel that currently is prevented from occurring.

There are SA based companies, consultants and others who are hurting.

And they are also many other reason why people need to travel interstate.

I was only joking. It’s just a jibe thrown at us by other states.
Personally I’d love the border to open as I have family in NSW I haven’t seen for almost a year and from the business side of things although my work is financially booming it’s logistically a bit of a nightmare trying to organise anything and attend meetings, site checks etc

 

[RooFlyer]

But regardless it simply doesnt matter that they have fallen behind because it is clear that the virus is circulating more widely in all states than testing is picking up.

How is that clear? Two ways to pick up cases - a test, and a patient presenting with symptoms (and then tested). In Tas, SA, WA, ACT tests are not picking up active cases for the past 2 weeks (except for the odd ones picked up in quarantine - getting much rarer) and no new presentations.

It MAY be circulating in those states, but I can't see that there is evidence for it.

 

[jase05]

My bold. But if it is floating around then it shows we are damn well coping with it. Four of Victorias positives were from those in quarantine. They should not count. But then the Other states would have no reason not to open their borders. Can't have that just yet. Apparently.

I think the Cedar debacle but a few scares into the other states but hopefully that’s under control now.

 

[Pushka]

I very much doubt that.

I used to fly into Adelaide for business ever six weeks in a previous employ.

There is a lot of business travel that currently is prevented from occurring.

There are SA based companies, consultants and others who are hurting.

And they are also many other reasons why people need to travel interstate.

Yep. That's the issue with our business once SA closed for business opportunities a few years ago. Thankfully so far they are working with us via a mix of Skype and office. But we believe he can qualify as essential service - need to explore that some more.