Thinking it's time to give VA the flick

[RooFlyer]

My issue with the whole thing isn't so much that it was rushed (it clearly was and I get why), but the fact that VA have become totally non-communicative about the whole thing. Their number one sales channel (the website) is a mess. Online management of existing bookings is a mess. There's been no cohesive communication showing that VA are actually aware of the problems and how they plan on fixing them -- to the point of having denied knowledge of problems in some cases documented here!

Being O/S a fair bit, I haven't been in the VA market since Sabre was introduced (except for one Award flight in J, which was great) and I've been following this thread with alarm and disappointment. DJ/VA was my domestic-carrier-of-choice because their schedule, hard product and fares suited me. But by God, when I get back to Oz, I'm not touching them with a barge pole.

Funnily enough, I've been on the FT Air Canada Forum joining in the loud slagging off of Air Canada for their botched re-launch of their FF program (sort of - its a complicated set up). Their issues are only about 10 days old and mainly about on-ground and FF service, so less serious than VA's - but still mostly IT related. Another thing is the same. The airline is making NO acknowledgement of problems, and not answering reasonable queries with anything other than PR fluff, which makes things worse. Their forum rep pops up occasionally, giving very selective (and often outright wrong) updates about 'progress' and then follows a barrage of complaints/queries/condemnation . So maybe the VA rep here knows when to hide!

VA and AC obviously share the same PR advice and/or crisis management advisers (if they acknowledge their issues as crises).

 

[DaveB]

I'm not sure if your complaint is that there is a cancellation fee at all, or rather that they were unable to 'charge' you 2x4,500 points for the cancellation and would only accept 2x$35 cash instead?

Sorry for confusion - was more than happy to pay the points, not the $$. Just highlighting how the system is failing not just for us but their operators also. Given my call should not have been made anyway if the online system was working, was truly amazed to get thru so quickly.
I rarely ring airlines so given the current problems was expecting to place the call on speaker for whenever it was answered.
Will never forget the call drop out rate for Ansett of 12% hang up rate due to waiting too long for one of their 900 operators which management had reduced by 90 as part of justifying their final linked call centre network system.

 

[Fruitcake]

Sorry for confusion - was more than happy to pay the points, not the $$. Just highlighting how the system is failing not just for us but their operators also.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Agreed that one of the more annoying aspects of this whole Sabre rollover has been that even when playing within the rules, the customer is still getting burnt on occasion such as this one (or the Virgin Money 2-for-1s).

 

[Markmat]

Going back to the gist of this thread, I think it is time to give VA the flick, I have been on four VA flights and six Qantas Flights over the last month. Of the VA flights three have not associated my Velocity number, even though in every case it was recorded at booking and in one case when I didn't see it on the web site I rang them up, was on hold for 30 minutes and when I checked-in they said there was no Velocity Number associated and was allocated 23e. When they realised I was Platinum they moved me to 3C and the poor bozo who was in 3C was moved to 3B at boarding. We had a laugh about it, but if I were him I wouldn't be happy, I certainly didn't like this effect. The others they have moved me when I checked in. All points for those flights have yet to be credited and I have emailed them without a single reply. This is not professional and my experiences with Qantas have been incredibly positive. I have asked my travel co-ordinators to ensure I am not flying VA for a period of time. Our travel co-ordinator said that a number of our travellers (We have a number of other people like me who are Platinum with both airlines) have asked to give VA a wide berth. I though VA were on the right path and they had made great strides, but I think they have created a major problem with their lack of customer focus. Their communication is poor and they have put their staff in difficult positions. I know this seems a rant, but I feel like venting!

 

[totd]

I know this seems a rant, but I feel like venting!

If you can't vent here, where can you vent? It's not like you've gone off-topic.

Is it possible for an admin or mod to use one or more of the alternative contacts for the VA rep to see if they are at least still checking this forum semi-regularly and feeding back the comments to the VA hierarchy?

 

[clifford]

Having already re-qual'd PG on Qantas i thought over the last month or so i would direct my flying to Virgin to do my re-qual there. I'm beginning to think i may be wasting my time after tonight..

I've had to put up with a useless website (no one can tell me that the website is good). I can't select seats online,

I've had more delayed flights this year on my VA flights than all of last year on QF.

Putting up with Sabre is something I'd like to forget.

The staff have little enthusiasm anymore, my last Qantas flight they were a lot happier.

DJ staff having less enthusiasm? What a joke. Those girlies couldn't give a hoot (or use your own word) about anything other than themselves.

And their FF scheme is a joke. Just try booking a flight in Europe for example. And really, has anyone ever been to AUH (Abu Dhabi)? I visit DXB many times a year (EK Gold), and trust me, you don't want to go to AUH.

So why bother with DJ? I fully agree with your sentiments.

 

[notzac]

And their FF scheme is a joke. Just try booking a flight in Europe for example.

Right at the moment it's .. not great (online at least), but availability on EY is typically excellent - including in premium cabins.

And really, has anyone ever been to AUH (Abu Dhabi)?

Actually - pretty keen on going there, planning on stopping over for a few days on the next trip to Europe. Is there something specific you don't like about the place?

 

[Markmat]

I think the Virgin staff have been great, especially the front line check-in staff and the lounge staff. They did not create the problem, but have had to live with the impact. The issue is the management of VA, as they implemented a reservations system poorly, and have created problems for their frequent flyers and staff. They compound it by not communicating the problems or resolutions, normally the public will show tolerance, but not if they are told nothing. The problem is I have had more interaction with VA staff because of the reservation issues and they have been nothing but helpful and professional and are incredibly apologetic. If their systems were working my interaction would be limited (This is the case with Qantas) and I would not have to waste time resolving booking, seat allocation, and point related issues. I prefer to have an easy life which happens when there are no problems with these areas. That is why I choose not to fly VA until I have heard their issues are resolved. Over the next three weeks I have at least 13 flights and I would normally spread the load, but I want an easy life so have put all with Qantas. I hope VA sort out the issues! I like flying both!

 

[straitman]

It is good to see the same old people who never fly Virgin go on and bag them continually. Don't get me wrong as I am not defending them just trying to keep perspective on the discussion.

I have made three bookings since sabre started and only had one easily rectified issue.

A points booking I made online this evening was totally without issue including seat selection.
A rewards booking on SIA that I needed to change was a quick phone call without issue.
The points have posted for me as they should.

I have had more issues with the Qantas web site than the Virgin web site.

Sounds like I have been blessed where others have had issues with Virgin but I guess it shows that it can work.

.... and for those who really want a dodgy web site try and play around with the Hilton site for a while :!: :shock: :evil:

 

[JessicaTam]

It is good to see the same old people who never fly Virgin go on and bag them continually. Don't get me wrong as I am not defending them just trying to keep perspective on the discussion.

I have made three bookings since sabre started and only had one easily rectified issue.

A points booking I made online this evening was totally without issue including seat selection.
A rewards booking on SIA that I needed to change was a quick phone call without issue.
The points have posted for me as they should.

I have had more issues with the Qantas web site than the Virgin web site.

Sounds like I have been blessed where others have had issues with Virgin but I guess it shows that it can work.

.... and for those who really want a dodgy web site try and play around with the Hilton site for a while :!: :shock: :evil:

The Hilton website! Don't get me started...

 

[drewbles]

DJ staff having less enthusiasm? What a joke. Those girlies couldn't give a hoot (or use your own word) about anything other than themselves.

And their FF scheme is a joke. Just try booking a flight in Europe for example. And really, has anyone ever been to AUH (Abu Dhabi)? I visit DXB many times a year (EK Gold), and trust me, you don't want to go to AUH.

So why bother with DJ? I fully agree with your sentiments.

After my flight on Thursday to PER, my VA crew were nothing short of sensational. I'd have to say they have far more enthusiasm than the tired QF crew I always got when flying transcon.

 

[RooFlyer]

DJ staff having less enthusiasm? What a joke. Those girlies couldn't give a hoot (or use your own word) about anything other than themselves.

And their FF scheme is a joke. Just try booking a flight in Europe for example. And really, has anyone ever been to AUH (Abu Dhabi)? I visit DXB many times a year (EK Gold), and trust me, you don't want to go to AUH.

So why bother with DJ? I fully agree with your sentiments.

Bit of a bizare post, eh? "DJ" staff = "Girlies" ?? You do realise that some of the cabin crew are male, don't you?

AUH - yes have flown in and out of there (also DXB). Quite content with each (I assume you mean airport, not the city). Care to name an issue (especially if relevent to VA), or was it a general spray?

So why do you bother with VA (as they are known now)? You are obviously so passionately finding fault with them, I'm surprised you still fly with them. Or perhaps you don't fly with them, but still happy to come here and slag off?

 

[UP4014]

Certainly a recent experience DPS-SYD on VA was disgraceful. I wrote a complaint setting out in some detail the problems. I didn't even receive an acknowledgement. I have not been in a VA aircraft since. Seems to me that VA's competitive advantage is QF being so awful at times; now that QF is improving thanks to AJ's crew re-education camps and so on, VA's competitive advantage is slipping.

They have eroded everything they had better than QF, hence I'm heading Boise to Sydney this evening, all booked via the QF web site even the United and Alaskan legs.

matt

 

[straitman]

clifford,

Let us start at the beginning. The airline you are bagging is VA not DJ. IF you cannot get that part right how is anyone to take anything else you say seriously :?:

DJ staff having less enthusiasm? What a joke. Those girlies couldn't give a hoot (or use your own word) about anything other than themselves.

An interesting and insulting thought from someone who does not fly VA. How would you know :?:

And their FF scheme is a joke. Just try booking a flight in Europe for example. And really, has anyone ever been to AUH (Abu Dhabi)? I visit DXB many times a year (EK Gold), and trust me, you don't want to go to AUH.

In case you didn't realise there are other places in the world than AUH. It is after all a transit location so who cares. Domestically the VA FF scheme is much cheaper and easier to use than Qantas.

So why bother with DJ? I fully agree with your sentiments.

Our experiences are all different. Sometimes VA are better than QF and sometimes QF are better than VA. Personally my on time experience with VA is much better than QF.

Neither QF or VA get it all right or all wrong all of the time. They are both better and worse at somethings than the other.

Once again to everyone else, my apologies for taking the thread OT but it is necessary occasionally to point out facts to balance an argument :!:

 

[QF WP]

I'd still love to know why sabre was brought in so quickly, knowing it was nowhere near ready. Was the CEO pushing for it to be in?

There was a post somewhere indicating the SABRE implementation team was needed elsewhere and it was January or bust (AKA late this year).

That was my post in another thread.
I have had the pleasure? of the Sabre Implementation team in the building next to me for the past year. The initial implementation date was 26 October, but talking to those employees who hung outside the building for cigarettes or talking on their mobiles, they were extended almost 3 months to 11 Jan; however they couldn't extend any longer. Most were moving to do Etihad's Sabre changeover, others to a Canadian airline for some pre-work.

 

[markis10]

I have had the pleasure? of the Sabre Implementation team in the building next to me for the past year. The initial implementation date was 26 October, but talking to those employees who hung outside the building for cigarettes or talking on their mobiles, they were extended almost 3 months to 11 Jan; however they couldn't extend any longer. Most were moving to do Etihad's Sabre changeover, others to a Canadian airline for some pre-work.

Interesting life they lead, I suspect most were young and single .

 

[RooFlyer]

That was my post in another thread.
I have had the pleasure? of the Sabre Implementation team in the building next to me for the past year. The initial implementation date was 26 October, but talking to those employees who hung outside the building for cigarettes or talking on their mobiles, they were extended almost 3 months to 11 Jan; however they couldn't extend any longer. Most were moving to do Etihad's Sabre changeover, others to a Canadian airline for some pre-work.

The obvious conclusion being is that there was no 'finish' to the implementation, it was just that the team had to up-stakes and leave. Sounds exacly like how the public implementation was found by customers ...

 

[QF WP]

Interesting life they lead, I suspect most were young and single .

Correct - the Sabre pre-Team were mostly from the sub-continent. In fact most of those remaining today (the post implementation team) are still from there.

 

[QF WP]

The obvious conclusion being is that there was no 'finish' to the implementation, it was just that the team had to up-stakes and leave. Sounds exacly like how the public implementation was found by customers ...

Yes, I think they had to go live with what they had at that point in time - not sure I'd they have been able to second people off other projects to fix the issues.

 

[MandM]

My two Virgin interactions since the intro of Sabre have been flawless. My first ever Europcar rental points posted correctly within about three days of rental. And last night I booked a rewards flight without issue, including seat selection for three sectors (VA domestic, VA longhaul, VX USA domestic). And the pay portion was much more reasonable than pre-sabre and availability was amazing! Good Friday travel, which is also the first day of vic school holidays, had available seats 3 weeks out!