Time to give up on Qantas

[medhead]

I think '6' is a bit impossible! But otherwise American Airlines probably satisfies just about everything, with the exception of better lounges. QF has 2 good F class lounges, but given lounge use of partner airlines is permitted under OW rules, it's not so much of an issue anyway.

VA is an airline that has increased the FF benefits in the last 5 years. But the Original Post sounds like international travel is required.

 

[BD1959]

I have become increasingly disheartened at the quality of service I receive from Qantas. Like most airlines, they get most things right most of the time. However, they seem increasingly uninterested in doing more than the bare minimum, and the frequent flyer program has been devalued to the point where I cannot see any utility in making use of it.


In the past two years, I have received poor service in respect of taking award flights, and dealing with lost property. The frequent flyer program has been devalued, and redeeming most awards above premium economy on international flights is in my experience very difficult. Benefits under the scheme are now squarely directed at booking QF codeshares to the long list of places Qantas doesn't go and at my current level that translates to additional cost for no real benefit. More often than not, it is far and away the most expensive option. Efforts to contact Qantas are difficult with anything other than bookings, and queries and complaints (as others here have indicated) seem to be given a very low priority.


I direct an organization that will spend about $800K on international flights this year, with much of that going to Qantas. I imagine that doesn't mean much to Qantas' bottom line, even with Qantas International losing money. I don't know if we will be valued by other airlines, but I am keen to find out, because my loyalty to date has been repaid with disinterested service at a premium price.

Some interesting points and I'm not sure there's going to be a golden-bullet answer.

Do you direct ALL the spending - how much is for other staff who may not share your disdain for QF (in fact may be negative in a shift away from Qantas)?

I realize you state that most of your spend is International - do none of the staff fly domestically?

How much of your travel is consistently covered by another airline/FF scheme - would they offer to status-match you and your staff if they were to switch? Will you - and the staff - have the opportunity to earn ancillary points for that scheme from within Australia? (There's no point in their having a far better burn ratio for more available - and cheaper - award redemption if you can't easily earn in the first place).

I find most of your concerns are probably growing trends in the industry; I'm not sure switching will necessarily fix that: other than the high prices and cost of awards, two areas in which Qantas seem to want to lead the airline industry. Most airlines these days seem to spend more time looking to see how they can gouge the customer and remove service offerings - all in the name of remaining competitive - and a scan of other Boards (both here and on FT) will provide insight on how other airlines are just as moribund at complaint handling. "Loyalty schemes" are nothing more than alternate revenue streams - but more importantly, ones which the airlines themselves can vary the value of currency.

I became quite disillusioned with QF (actually still am very disillusioned with their Executive Team) and switched all of my domestic travel to VA in March this year. If you want to know how not to run IIROPS, give VA and their call-centre a go, the QF Platinum line is service excellence in comparison. To me, getting to your destination as early as possible after - the unavoidable disruption - is one of the most major considerations, Qantas do seem to be good at this and have also proven to be so are the few times that I had issues with International travel.

Lastly, welcome to AFF, Waterline. You raise some really interesting points and it will be great to see you continue to contribute on this subject as you consider various options and land at a final decision.

Regards,

BD

 

[ajw373]

Maybe try Singapore Airlines for international travel, and Virgin Australia for some semplance of (higher) economy service on domestic travel than Tiger and Jetstar.
If you want to thumb your nose at Qantas and not give them any benefit, Singapore Airlines is the only way. .

Right, I have just picked myself up off the floor. I am reading right that the OP is dissatisfied with consistency of service and the value of the frequent flyer service and your suggesting they go to Singapore Airlines. Oh that is way way funny.

Firstly having been flying them quite regularly for the past year or two in my current job, they are just as bad if not worse with consistency. What SQ does well is a highly rehearsed service, but disrupt that routine and they turn to custard. Except at Changi their priority baggage success rate is just as bad as Qantas or most airlines for that matter.

Frequent flyer scheme, again not too dissimilar to Qantas, in some ways much harder to get status. Though I do note you suggest people should join Virgin Aus and credit to them, yeah much better idea and what I do, though of course you need to make 4 flights with a VA flight number to get/retain Gold and I think 8 for Platinum. If your travel is mostly OS like me, that then becomes hard to do, unless you are flying to LA or Abu Dhabi.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

OP: If an alliance can't provide you with what you need perhaps look at a corp travel agent. If your spend is aggregated with them at least you can get benefit through them instead of looking to the airline for benefits.

IMO as far as FF programs go it depends how you utilise the program. Do you use points for redemptions? upgrades? Toasters?
There are so many variables like where you fly the most, what alliance you would prefer, what class you generally travel in and so on and no one size fits all solution.

Flavour of the month is credit to AA or BA but continue to fly Qantas (obviously requires US or EU/Asia travel).
With Amex you can get credit card points into both AA and BA through SPG at levels comparable to QFF burn value.

Without knowing your activity type it really just depends.

In regards to Qantas not caring about $800K in revenue from one company. They would care. Qantas Frequent Flyer would also care more because if all those employees are forced to fly other airlines it means they have less reason to take out a Qantas earning credit card, use Woolies EDR and so on. That $800K figure is only a portion of the real value to the Qantas Group. You should figure out the total value to leverage your bargaining position.

 

[samh004]

I have become increasingly disheartened at the quality of service I receive from Qantas. Like most airlines, they get most things right most of the time. However, they seem increasingly uninterested in doing more than the bare minimum, and the frequent flyer program has been devalued to the point where I cannot see any utility in making use of it.

I think this point is worth underlining. They're facing some problems right now so of course there's going to be a certain degree of cost cutting, but as things return to profitability I think things will again swing in the other direction. They're certainly constantly tweaking things to get the best value for both themselves and their customers, sometimes the changes don't go quite to plan, and they then need to make more changes to fix them, but it's all a process. Things rarely stay the same for long.

I think the introduction of a specific level above Platinum (instead of a hidden level), tweaks to loyalty bonuses, who you can give partner gold to, and ultimately where you can use your points (QF would never be able to offer the range of destinations EK can) have all contributed to the program. Of course, if you never get above Platinum, or fly to destinations other than the standard QF-serviced ones these benefits seem lacklustre.

When you compare the two major airline groups in Australia you've got both making losses right now, but trying to stem those losses and return to profitability, while trying their best to offer premium changes (not enhancements). If you're patriotic, one is predominantly Australian-owned, the other, well, I'm sure you know... One has chosen to hold onto its FF business, and continues to provide new ways to earn points, even if a little late to that party (shopping - online mall), while the other sold a part stake to raise some capital, to there detriment we don't know yet? I'm sure there are other comparisons that I could make, but it certainly seems to me there's more future potential value in Qantas.

Of course, as mentioned by others, there are may other airline FF schemes that might work better for you on an international level, the only issue being how they integrate into a domestic airline.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Samh004, smart and cunning and brave of you not to mention the name of the "opposition".

 

[UP4014]

I'm a rusted on QANTAS supporter, but in the last 12 or so months they have done and continue to do stupid little things with the frequent flyer program and lounges which piss me off. Have 4 flights next week with them so will get some stares when I arrive into the lounge with my own Crown Larger. (no issues on the flying side)

I feel for you, spending $800K, when we spent $5M per year QANTAS didn't react to fix things so I think you're out of luck.

Matt

 

[mickey68]

How come I always get an MD80

Thought that was just me

 

[Blinky]

Welcome Waterline. One of the reasons I opted for Virgin and it's international partners was the Virgin FF program. I heard many, many horror stories about redeeming Qantas points, particularly on international flights. My experience is exactly the opposite. I was able to redeem 500K points on two Business Class seats to Europe at exactly the times of my choosing, and the same with my (more modest) domestic redemptions.

I still fly Qantas intermittently, and find many staff unfriendly and sometimes surly. Virgin staff do seem to enjoy their work more.

Yeah, I know, sample of one......

 

[lovestotravel]

Welcome Waterline and "OUCH"
800k is a big spend and I bet Qantas would love to keep you. In fact, if they'd kept more people like you, they might not have been in the red this year!
I'm a long-time Qantas bagger (cough redemption etc.....) and was about to post on this forum when I read your post.

My kids (19 and 21) have just flown J (whoops..., Business Class) from MEL - LHR return. Out with Qantas and back with Malaysian (redemption thing; QF booked a year out - MH last month)
They couldn't speak highly enough about the QF product!
The QF lounge, the attentive staff, the LONG flat-bed with mattress for my 6'4" lad, the snacks, the Emirates J lounge; in fact everything. Malaysian just couldn't compete.

So here I am, eating humble pie.

And hats off to the two, young, male stewards who pampered my daughter.

You are compared QF with MH

MH is a C+ product at best

Fly Emirates, Singapore or Etihad and then compare with QF

 

[juddles]

....Fly Emirates, Singapore or Etihad and then compare with QF....

Why? The poster´s family clearly enjoyed their flights.

 

[straitman]

You are compared QF with MH

MH is a C+ product at best

Fly Emirates, Singapore or Etihad and then compare with QF

It's time to remember that what is being said is very subjective and that we all have different experiences and different expectations.

I have had MH experiences that ran rings around the EK and also the other way around. Different hard products sometimes but different crews which make as much or more of a difference. I've even had an EK crew that was great one day and awful the next.

At the same time I've also had QF crews that are better and worse than what I've experiences with EK and MH.

I've not commented on EY and SQ as I have no recent experiences with either.

 

[browski]

The diminishing QF international route map has also contributed to a lack of relevance of the QF/QFF product.
No Frankfurt, San Francisco, Beijing, Mumbai, Nadi, almost No Perth-Anywhere, No Adelaide-Anywhere, No good.
So your flying patterns may not have changed.......but QF has.

So, I think the OP should re-consider their airline choice and base the decision upon which destinations are flown most often.

For myself, I fly mainly to Middle east, Africa and Asia. So, I find myself more skewed towards Cathay Pacific and Emirates and their FF programs

However, if I was more Europe and North America focussed, I'd be more into SQ/VA/Delta/Etihad.

If I was just Asia focussed, I'd be SQ .........but mainly for the flight frequency from MEL/SYD/BNE. (perhaps SQ if SE asia focussed, CX if NE asia focussed).

 

[samh004]

Samh004, smart and cunning and brave of you not to mention the name of the "opposition".

Truly coincidental, I assure you!

 

[GoldCanyon340]

I have had MH experiences that ran rings around the EK and also the other way around. Different hard products sometimes but different crews which make as much or more of a difference. I've even had an EK crew that was great one day and awful the next.

I've had the same MH/EK experience. Glad I saw your post I was about to launch into a big description, so you saved me the job of typing it all into an iPad!

In January of this this year I did a SYDHKG on QF (the 127) and it was pretty much the best J experience I've had in twenty years. Just the perfect combo of aircraft, great staff, food and wine. I love it when everything clicks. When you get a good flight you chalk it up as one to remember. When you get a bad flight it's just best to move on and know the next will surely be better.

When QF gets it right, especially with SYD F and MEL F, there's not much in global commercial aviation to beat it. As I say to friends, go travelling for a month in Europe with a few LCCs or even trying the 'premium' AA domestic product. You'll soon see how good we have it here, even with its gripes.

 

[maninblack]

Have had some pretty klutzy breakfast service on SQ lately, they always seem to be running late. That said its a cut above the tired old tray of same same QF has been dishing up for what seems like an eternity. And that coffee, crikey

 

[amaroo]

<snip>
redeeming most awards above premium economy on international flights is in my experience very difficult.

I once thought the same. Since joining AFF - my experience and opinion has changed.

I direct an organization that will spend about $800K on international flights this year, with much of that going to Qantas.

Crank it up a few $$ and you might bag a CL invite

 

[Lonely Flyer]

Welcome Waterline. One of the reasons I opted for Virgin and it's international partners was the Virgin FF program. I heard many, many horror stories about redeeming Qantas points, particularly on international flights. My experience is exactly the opposite. I was able to redeem 500K points on two Business Class seats to Europe at exactly the times of my choosing, and the same with my (more modest) domestic redemptions.

I still fly Qantas intermittently, and find many staff unfriendly and sometimes surly. Virgin staff do seem to enjoy their work more.

Yeah, I know, sample of one......

I did J on QF last September 2013 and J on VA this September both BNE-LAX and the winner:

Hard Product = A Tie
Food = A Tie (both uninspiring)
Entertainment= QF
Staff = VA by a nose

Second flight was an award

 

[nlagalle]

Linking Virgin Australia flights to Singapore Airlines flights, might be harder, but will ensure none of the money your business or the business you work for, goes Qantas's way/sway.

Why would it be harder considering they have agreements in place??

I flew Emirates twice, and while not on Qantas metal trans Tasman, part of my $ would have gone Qantas's way, as I am a Qantas Silver.

No, not because you were a Silver, only part of your $$ would have gone to QF if you booked a codeshare flight.

 

[Scarlett]

I'm going to have a 'go' at the challenge you've set below Juddles. You've made it impossible to find just one airline of course... so after the period of consolidation in 25 years time when UnitedTransFlyerStarWorld (TM) Airlines (referred to on AFF as 'FrankenAir' or simply 'Master') is the only one left I think the best parts will have come from:

I consider usage of the ¨$¨ a fail. Maybe not an acronym, but ......

As for the OP, usually I don´t bother even reading ¨yet another bag Qantas¨ thread, especially when it is someone´s first post on the fórum, but you have taken the time to colmpile a concise and reasoned explanation of your displeasure. It is hard to disagree with it.

My main comment, (and please don´t see this as ¨defending¨ Qantas), is that if you have a substantial and ongoing usage of any large service provider, you will probably suffer the same disatisfaction these days. Business gets more and more competitive, and belts get tightened.

Can anyone tell me which major airline has all of the follwing:

1.- Better FF program for accumulating points/SC AA
2.- Better FF program for redemptions UA
3.- Better planes/hard product SQ
4.- Better lounges CX
5.- Better ¨service¨ EK
6.- And is INCREASING or has NOT DECREASED their FF benefits in the last 5 years. VA! (they've definitely improved in the last 5 years)

I am sure we can all find airlines which beat QF in one or more of these áreas. (For example, sorry QF, but the ¨fees¨ on your FF redemptions are disgusting!)
But an airline that satisfies all of them? Not likely.

That sort of endgame would be nice in a dream. What we'd all actually end up with would be the ultimate race to the bottom:
1. and 2. Air Africa's FF programme (4 flights in a row without a crash = Platinum);
3. An all MetrolinerIII fleet;
4. TT lounges (MEL T4 scrum);
5. FR service; and
6. Airpoints.

Also, fully agree that the OPs post was well written and considered: something of a rarity on a public forum I would suggest!