Today's Learnings (MH Flexible Earn on QF & Combined Classic Reward Bookings)

[goosewacker]

Hi team,

Long time lurker, first time poster. QF gold, about 12,000 SC's in the bank. Thought I was pretty conversant with QF procedures but got pinged twice today with "fine print" restrictions, sharing them here so there's hopefully some learnings for others. I am guessing these have been posted before but lost in the murk below.

Learning 1: Fare Class Y bookings on MH earn at Discount Economy for QF to and from Australia

We recently travelled to and from KUL in Y (Fully Flexible), booked and paid extra for Y to accumulate more status credits in order to have a run at QF Platinum / OW Emerald this year. Flights were credited to QF account at Discount Economy rates so called to have it reviewed. Denied and told we had been credited all points due.

Turns out that all Malaysia Airlines economy bookings regardless of fare class are only credited at Discount Economy rates and premium eco/business bookings are credited at Flexible Economy rates for "Flights between Australia and Malaysia, UK or Europe*; New Zealand and Malaysia, UK or Europe*; and Malaysia and UK, Europe* or Middle East"

This arrangement seems unique to MH and QF and all other Fare Class Y bookings on any other airline earn the normal Flexible Economy rate. This is a bit annoying as they do their best to refer you the points calculator rather than the earn tables to calculate your flights - which have no mention of this arrangement, just the earn categories. Don't consider MH if you're doing a QF status run and flying outside of Asia, I think is the learning here.

Earn Tables

Learning 2: Combined Bookings (Classic Reward & Paid Fare) are a bad idea

We had booked a PER-SYD return some time ago but because we weren't sure about the departure date, booked the outbound leg as a Classic Reward flight, return as a Red e-Deal paid fare. Thinking was that we would be able to change or cancel the Classic Reward flight as required for the normal Classic Reward fare rules, (5k points change, 6k points cancel) but at least had a flight locked in.

Unable to do a change online so called the Service Centre . Turns out that when combining Classic Reward fares and paid "Commercial" fares, the most restrictive conditions of the commercial fares apply to the whole booking.

• If you combine Classic Flight Rewards with non-Classic Flight Reward fares ("Commercial Fares"), the most restrictive fare condition of those Commercial Fares apply to the segments booked as Classic Flight Rewards for booking changes. Refer to the Commercial Fare conditions.

So, this meant that we would be charged $198 to change our Classic Reward flight dates, or if we wanted to cancel and rebook it we would need to cancel the whole booking and forfeit the points and the cash paid for the non-refundable commercial fare. Crediting the fare and re-booking was possible but we would then need to pay the difference between the fare we booked months ago and the current fare price today (+$3-400). If we no-showed for the first Classic Reward leg, the whole itinerary would be cancelled with no refund.

After about an hour on the phone and escalating with the agent we managed to get the first flight "credited" with points - meaning that the points didn't get refunded, but would be held under that PNR for a future flight. I'm guessing this will be a nightmare to re-book with later as it sounds like a really unusual arrangement.

If we had booked the itinerary as two separate one way bookings, one reward and one cash, then this restriction would not apply. I would suggest that anyone looking at a combined booking like this separate your bookings to optimise your fare conditions for any changes.

So there you go - in both cases I was wrong and Qantas was within their advertised Terms and Conditions, however I don't feel like either case passes the pub test and would catch others out. In both cases the overseas call centre phone agent I spoke to was apologetic but professional.

 

[straitman]

Due to some of the 'strange' conditions that we encounter I nearly always book flights as single legs or seperate bookings.

 

[exceladdict]

Sorry to hear this but thanks for the heads up.

 

[RichardMEL]

Welcome @goosewacker to AFF!

Sorry you've been bitten by these.

You're correct, the MH/QF earning is skewed. We've often felt this was to try to push people flying the "kangaroo route" to QF operated flights via SIN (or DXB when it was) over MH - I think mostly as MH has usually been a cheaper alternative and QF wanted that revenue. Additionally the QF/MH relationship has long been a bit strained.. probably going back to the days of the "Red" project they were going to launch together, but never happened. Yes, it is a gotchya though absolutely.

As for the classic reward/paid fare issue. This is less about the CR portion, and more about the red-e-deal fare. When fare types of any kind are combined, it's almost ALWAYS the most restrictive set of conditions that rule. This is pretty standard airline policy.

In future for domestic flights, of course, just booking these as two one way bookings avoids this issue.

(internationally this is not quite so simple)

 

[encryptededdy]

Learning 1: Fare Class Y bookings on MH earn at Discount Economy for QF to and from Australia

Another thing to beware of is that if you book "Flex" on the MH website, it may still ticket into a low fare class (e.g. N). This is due to their new "Horizontal Fare Family" which means Flex/Basic/Lite has no relation to the actual booked fare class, at least when booking on the MH website.

So, this meant that we would be charged $198 to change our Classic Reward flight dates, or if we wanted to cancel and rebook it we would need to cancel the whole booking and forfeit the points and the cash paid for the non-refundable commercial fare.

I've personally made this mistake before too. Luckily for me the call centre did agree to waive the change fee as a once-off courtesy if I wanted to change just the Classic Rewards portion of the flight (Hobart call center). Unfortunately it seems like you weren't as lucky

After about an hour on the phone and escalating with the agent we managed to get the first flight "credited" with points - meaning that the points didn't get refunded, but would be held under that PNR for a future flight. I'm guessing this will be a nightmare to re-book with later as it sounds like a really unusual arrangement.

Hopefully it's recorded properly. I think there's been stories in the past where sometimes mixed Reward/Cash fares end up with the reward portion saved as a very low cash value (presumably the amount paid by QFF to QF), so I suspect there's a chance that an agent who doesn't read the notes properly may just see a $70 flight credit or something.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

QFF points and QFF SC flying MH has for a number of years now been low, despite MH and QF being in the OW alliance.
Worst, is that if you were to buy an MH J tix, you will earn QFF points and QFF SC at the top Y rate, not the J rate.
As mentked by RichardMEL, (its not MH's fault), its QF, as they prefer pax to use QF to SIN, and then 3K ie Jetstar Asia to get around Asia.
Its lucky you didn't pay out to use MH J.

 

[jase05]

This has been the case for many years and one of the main reasons I ended up switching to BAEC. QF earn on MH to/from Australia is quite frankly a joke. It’s bad enough that QF punish you for flying OW partners as it is but they have taken that a extra step with MH

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Also, for those who live in ADL, and don't want to trudge via the east coast or PER to SIN, MH is the only choice.
Yes, I know that there is a JQ flight from ADL - DPS, where its possible to connect to KUL, but still, on a direct route, on most days, MH is the only way.

 

[goosewacker]

Welcome @goosewacker to AFF!

Sorry you've been bitten by these.

You're correct, the MH/QF earning is skewed. We've often felt this was to try to push people flying the "kangaroo route" to QF operated flights via SIN (or DXB when it was) over MH - I think mostly as MH has usually been a cheaper alternative and QF wanted that revenue. Additionally the QF/MH relationship has long been a bit strained.. probably going back to the days of the "Red" project they were going to launch together, but never happened. Yes, it is a gotchya though absolutely.

As for the classic reward/paid fare issue. This is less about the CR portion, and more about the red-e-deal fare. When fare types of any kind are combined, it's almost ALWAYS the most restrictive set of conditions that rule. This is pretty standard airline policy.

In future for domestic flights, of course, just booking these as two one way bookings avoids this issue.

(internationally this is not quite so simple)

Hey Richard,

Thanks for the reply. One correction - when booking a QF Flex/Red E-Deal fare combo the fare rules apply to the individual legs, not the entire booking - so I don't think it's standard policy normally for QF domestic.

I've done this a heap of times for work with a Red E-Deal outbound but a Flex return, and it does not apply the restrictive conditions to changes or cancellations of the Flex. I expected the same thing and for the CR rules to apply only to the CR leg.

Regardless of policy fairness it's my fault for not reading the fine print and booking as separate legs!

 

[RichardMEL]

QFF points and QFF SC flying MH has for a number of years now been low, despite MH and QF being in the OW alliance.
Worst, is that if you were to buy an MH J tix, you will earn QFF points and QFF SC at the top Y rate, not the J rate.
As mentked by RichardMEL, (its not MH's fault), its QF, as they prefer pax to use QF to SIN, and then 3K ie Jetstar Asia to get around Asia.
Its lucky you didn't pay out to use MH J.

yes but apart from the kangaroo route(and NZ-KUL, KUL-middle east - post MH/QR bedshare) MH flights do earn at more normal earning levels. Such that if I fly QF to SIN, then MH SIN-KUL, that earns at J rates. Plus intra asia routes too. MH can make some sense, for example, of routings like SIN-xKUL-BKK if that works.

Note, per: https://www.qantas.com/au/en/freque...s/earn-category-tables.html#malaysia-airlines

from August, 2022 I class has shifted to flex Y earn. i suspect this is due to MH's new fare structures.

 

[drron]

Welcome to AFF @goosewacker . Love the name but I now feel like foie gras for dinner.
It is not only on MH that QF penalises you for using a partner airline. If it is a route QF flies you will get far fewer points and SCs than on the QF flight. One of the reasons we don’t fly QFI.

 

[oz_mark]

Welcome to AFF @goosewacker . Love the name but I now feel like foie gras for dinner.
It is not only on MH that QF penalises you for using a partner airline. If it is a route QF flies you will get far fewer points and SCs than on the QF flight. One of the reasons we don’t fly QFI.

While true, Qantas is particularly harsh on MH.

 

[jase05]

If it is a route QF flies you will get far fewer points and SCs than on the QF flight. One of the reasons we don’t fly QFI.

Doesn’t even have to be same route. Have a look at the pathetic earn you get on QR to DOH compared to the QF codeshare on EK to DXB.
They want to push you to their services. Far easier to look at better FFP’s

 

[kpro]

Note, per: https://www.qantas.com/au/en/freque...s/earn-category-tables.html#malaysia-airlines

from August, 2022 I class has shifted to flex Y earn. i suspect this is due to MH's new fare structures.

There was a small discussion on the topic earlier this year. I seem to recall somewhere it was mentioned to be at the request of MH rather then QF. Qantas Status Credits when flying Malaysia Airlines.

Keeping this mind however, I still recently traveled intra-asia multi city on MH. Earning a paltry 10 SC's on a SIN - KUL leg is just awful. However, at least the QF F lounge was available to make up for it.

 

[exceladdict]

Are SCs coupled with a financial exchange between the operating/marketing airline and owner of the frequent flyer program?

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

I am sure there is a gain one side and a loss to the other.

 

[goosewacker]

Keeping this mind however, I still recently traveled intra-asia multi city on MH. Earning a paltry 10 SC's on a SIN - KUL leg is just awful. However, at least the QF F lounge was available to make up for it.

This is a 300km flight, I'm not quite sure what you were expecting for it. This actually seems reasonable to me. Even if you flew MEL-SYD in Y, it's still only 20 status credits for a flight over twice the distance.

 

[kpro]

This is a 300km flight, I'm not quite sure what you were expecting for it. This actually seems reasonable to me. Even if you flew MEL-SYD in Y, it's still only 20 status credits for a flight over twice the distance.

No need to be so abrasive. Keeping the context of the thread in mind, I was expecting 10 SC's because I already knew the new earn table.

However, I was flying in paid J (Business Class) and earning at an Economy rate. This same flight would earn 40 SC's if a QF code was possible. And a fairer comparison of QF J between SYD - CBR does earn 40 SC's for such a flight. So it's a poor earn rate, but I expected and tolerated it.

 

[goosewacker]

No need to be so abrasive. Keeping the context of the thread in mind, I was expecting 10 SC's because I already knew the new earn table.

However, I was flying in paid J (Business Class) and earning at an Economy rate. This same flight would earn 40 SC's if a QF code was possible. And a fairer comparison of QF J between SYD - CBR does earn 40 SC's for such a flight. So it's a poor earn rate, but I expected and tolerated it.

I didn't think this was abrasive, but my apologies if you took it that way. The initial post didn't mention flying in J, I agree - earning the economy SC rate when flying J is very average.

 

[oz_mark]

I didn't think this was abrasive, but my apologies if you took it that way. The initial post didn't mention flying in J, I agree - earning the economy SC rate when flying J is very average.

Most MH economy fares KUL-SIN earn 5 SC.