Tokyo Haneda slot - how will Virgin Operate it?

[jase05]

Can't see Virgin going bespoke for one route only, let alone have 1 or 2 aircraft re/fitted with lie flat for a self stated 'Value Orientated' carrier. At most they might increase the J pitch to something similar to their Indonesian rival Batik Malaysia (formerly Malindo), which are VA's hybrid LCC rivals on the East Coast to Bali flights.

Can’t see it happening but would’ve been nice to see them fit out a small portion of the new aircraft with lie flat seats and rotate through CNS-HND and Transcon routes

 

[_flyer]

Can’t see it happening but would’ve been nice to see them fit out a small portion of the new aircraft with lie flat seats and rotate through CNS-HND and Transcon routes

I agree. Do we know when the first 737MAX arrives? Some reports are stating February 2023. I assume if this is the case seating would have already been chosen ;-(

 

[Vic]

Faster for me would be to go via SIN, and spend more days in Tokyo, but the fares with SQ are higher.
And get their wide body A350 and the B777.

I'd say the comparable cabin on SQ is premium economy, not business.

Skyscanner is having difficulty finding single stop options ADL-Tokyo on SQ. But it will give you premium economy via SYD/MEL on SQ for $2500-$3000 in July.

 

[kezzakawasaki]

Or even Soju.

Warm or cold Sake?

"Atsukan" (warm sake) always!

 

[Sprucegoose]

"Atsukan" (warm sake) always!

Yes, a sneaky drop, as I have well and truly found out on a few occasions - generally with Japanese business types!

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

I'd say the comparable cabin on SQ is premium economy, not business.

Skyscanner is having difficulty finding single stop options ADL-Tokyo on SQ. But it will give you premium economy via SYD/MEL on SQ for $2500-$3000 in July.

OffT, for Jul/Oct 2023, there are Aud$5500 J fares, Au to HND with SQ, SQ website, I don't do OTAs.
After the borders opened, this year, I think it was Aud$7000 or so, even now, QF is asking for this and more.
I think that there is another long weekend in Christmas 2025 or 2026, (edit: nak, its 2027), after 2023.
I am a cleaner with multiple assignments with different payers, so Dec while $$$ would be the best for me, after a Mon shop clean, its possible to get to MEL by midnight, and get that very first SQ flight of that Tue, or the last flight on a Mon.
Get to SIN by 6am, and get the afternoon flight to HND, getting there Tue night at 8pm.
If I stay at the Royal Park, walkable from Haneda, it would be ideal, and can get the metro out and about Tokyo, without getting er, lost.OnT.

 

[Sprucegoose]

MEL by midnight, and get that very first SQ flight of that Tue, or the last flight on a Mon.

I don't mind that flight; it used to go at 0005 (relying on memory now) (it can set you up early in Sinkers to get outbound in good time. If you are an SQ aficionado, the $5k mark is pretty good (for these days).

I don't think I will ever understand the TOKYO Metro!

 

[drron]

OffT, for Jul/Oct 2023, there are Aud$5500 J fares, Au to HND with SQ, SQ website, I don't do OTAs.
After the borders opened, this year, I think it was Aud$7000 or so, even now, QF is asking for this and more.
I think that there is another long weekend in Christmas 2025 or 2026, (edit: nak, its 2027), after 2023.
I am a cleaner with multiple assignments with different payers, so Dec while $$$ would be the best for me, after a Mon shop clean, its possible to get to MEL by midnight, and get that very first SQ flight of that Tue, or the last flight on a Mon.
Get to SIN by 6am, and get the afternoon flight to HND, getting there Tue night at 8pm.
If I stay at the Royal Park, walkable from Haneda, it would be ideal, and can get the metro out and about Tokyo, without getting er, lost.OnT.

Well I am still getting $A3550.54 for J on SQ BNE to Tokyo through out next year.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Well I am still getting $A3550.54 for J on SQ BNE to Tokyo through out next year.

Thats a decent difference between BNE and MEL - worth the trek to BNE

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Ta Drron, I will have to seriously look into that one.
I know we did broach this particular blah a while back.
That is a very good price for J.
Considering lounge access, if CNS had a PP lounge where we could pay, I would be happy with that, and there is probably already a PP lounge at HND.
But, there is a still a but, as far as we know, VAi/VAd hasn't even taken delivery of the 737max, not even for a test flight, so I guess, for now, its still up in the air as to whether IRL they will actually start flying that type of aircraft, even though their booking systems have now opened, and accepting payment.
Maybe we can get excited when their, or a 737max does come into their service.

 

[Vic]

OffT, for Jul/Oct 2023, there are Aud$5500 J fares, Au to HND with SQ, SQ website, I don't do OTAs.
After the borders opened, this year, I think it was Aud$7000 or so, even now, QF is asking for this and more.
I think that there is another long weekend in Christmas 2025 or 2026, (edit: nak, its 2027), after 2023.
I am a cleaner with multiple assignments with different payers, so Dec while $$$ would be the best for me, after a Mon shop clean, its possible to get to MEL by midnight, and get that very first SQ flight of that Tue, or the last flight on a Mon.
Get to SIN by 6am, and get the afternoon flight to HND, getting there Tue night at 8pm.
If I stay at the Royal Park, walkable from Haneda, it would be ideal, and can get the metro out and about Tokyo, without getting er, lost.OnT.

Is it off topic to compare the VA flight to Tokyo with alternative options?
It's my opinion that the comparable alternative to VA is premium economy, since that's all VA are offering.
Now I'm all confused because apparently going via east coast is bad for you on VA, but fine on SQ. Enjoy.

BTW, I certainly do not book with OTA, but I do use Skyscanner/Google flights etc. to quickly compare a large number of options. It's just an efficient way compare.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

It all depends.
Waffle(y) on:
People who work as cleaners would understand, or have done cleaning assignments (esp with more than one payer).
As mentioned, when the time comes for me to fly far off again, I have to "play around" with when I can get time off, long ones that is, has to be in school holidays, (Dec is best, but $$$ ie pricey fares), and ideally, gets me finished shop cleaning by 11am, change out of fluoro work shirt/clothes, and out to airport by 14.00/14.30/14.45, VAd plane/QFd plane to east coast, then to catch SQ flight to SIN, then HND.
ADL - SIN with SQ is only once a day, dep about 9.45am or so, most days.
2027 would give me an ideal long stint of time to spend in HND, if I did it, via SIN, would be in Tokyo wed mid evening, or if via east coast Au with SQ, reach HND at 17.00.
Pre covid, some days, SQ had an evening flight too out of ADL, but haven't seen that for a long time now.
But if you have to work all day, till say, 4.30pm, and then change out of your work clothes, that is done, you have to wait till the next day, thus wasting a day.
But, if your office has out of work clothes change facs, either a shower, or something, you can change out of work clothes, into causal, get an evening flight to MEL, then the 00.45am SQ flight out to SIN from MEL, so you get up to SIN at sunrrise, and can get the SQ flight to HND, maybe get to HND about 17.00.
Going direct from ADL, you will still be in SIN at 17.00 that day, and not get to HND till 22.00 or so.
And with VA, its even worst, with them going via CNS, its a waste of a lot of time, but granted, they are the cheapest J product, or premY anyway.
All depends too on how long you have for annual leave, what sort of job you have (if you have more than one payer), finances, etc.
Would have been great if VA had kept 2 of its 777, so it could do MEL/SYD/PER - HND.
The 737max seems to be coming in early 2023, and the ANA logo with "coming in 2023" has appeared on the VA website as partner.
Would be good if the earn rate doesn't differentiate whether its partner or VAi flights, as VFF points earn and SC earn.
Ok... sorry for the waffly.
Waffle(y) turned off.

 

[Sprucegoose]

It's my opinion that the comparable alternative to VA is premium economy, since that's all VA are offering.

I think your opinion is spot on, Vic.

SQ business is just another level once again - even on regional flights, say DRW-SIN (refer to a recent trip report as posted) demonstrate this enhanced service level.

 

[Scarlett]

This is what TK have in their Max8 J cabin as at today:


(rubbish photo - cabin was full and didn’t want to get anyone in the image)

Lots of legroom
Large screen
Seat was comfy for 1:50 flight
Not lie flat
Guy beside me reclined and snoozed for most of the mid-afternoon flight.
Was definitely four rows of J (2 x 2 seating) might’ve even been five rows.

 

[MH_fan]

Having a subset of the 737MAX aircraft with lie flat seats will definitely sway me towards VA if I wanted to fly them to Japan, even with the stop in CNS. Maybe have all the MAX-8s with this (as the range is longer), since they'll have 8 of these in total, and leave the MAX-10s (in the regional configuration) where they'll have 25 coming?They could also use these planes on the SYD-PER route and compete with the QF widebodies.

 

[BRIS_VA_HAWK]

Having a subset of the 737MAX aircraft with lie flat seats will definitely sway me towards VA if I wanted to fly them to Japan, even with the stop in CNS. Maybe have all the MAX-8s with this (as the range is longer), since they'll have 8 of these in total, and leave the MAX-10s (in the regional configuration) where they'll have 25 coming?They could also use these planes on the SYD-PER route and compete with the QF widebodies.

Whilst I like the idea in principle, VA2s management style has been to reduce costs where possible and that includes standardisation of fleet as far as they can. Adding a sub-fleet (even though it would be a great selling point) adds in another layer of complexity that I doubt the beancounters would go for.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Whilst I like the idea in principle, VA2s management style has been to reduce costs where possible and that includes standardisation of fleet as far as they can. Adding a sub-fleet (even though it would be a great selling point) adds in another layer of complexity that I doubt the beancounters would go for.

I couldn't agree more. Nothing will change until management can demonstrate a lift in the bottom line.

We usually view airlines from the service/soft offering perspective I recall when AJ cancelled F (as an example) (apart from the (380's), and he was the greatest villain (from my discussions with staff) - however, the strategy was to strengthen the balance sheet.

Businesses (as are most enterprises/organisations) are a compromise and require competent leadership. If they can't run under their own steam, then they usually don't survive.

Bain & Co are money people and will be in the game as long as it pays a buck or two.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Wonder how long, in the end, would this flight last, maybe as long as there is/are financial backings for it.
Remember all the hype with VA1, when they went all the way to HKG, and even prior to covid, they stopped that route.
Probably if they didn't have the BNE/CNS airports or Qld govt's financial backing, they might not have started so fast, or (aim) to.
Edit: looks like the other Virgin, ie, Virgin Atlantic has also stopped flying to HKG, so now can't use that as a stepping stone to the UK with the "Virgin Group" anymore, either.

 

[pangwen]

Wonder how long, in the end, would this flight last, maybe as long as there is/are financial backings for it.
Remember all the hype with VA1, when they went all the way to HKG, and even prior to covid, they stopped that route.
Probably if they didn't have the BNE/CNS airports or Qld govt's financial backing, they might not have started so fast, or (aim) to.
Edit: looks like the other Virgin, ie, Virgin Atlantic has also stopped flying to HKG, so now can't use that as a stepping stone to the UK with the "Virgin Group" anymore, either.

If they hadn’t started cns-hnd so fast (arguable whether this is fast, but let’s run with mid-2023 being fast), then VA would likely not have been able to start it at all. There is a reasonable chance their HND slot would have been taken back if they asked for yet another extension.

 

[HeavyElectricity]

Wonder how long, in the end, would this flight last, maybe as long as there is/are financial backings for it.
Remember all the hype with VA1, when they went all the way to HKG, and even prior to covid, they stopped that route.
Probably if they didn't have the BNE/CNS airports or Qld govt's financial backing, they might not have started so fast, or (aim) to.
Edit: looks like the other Virgin, ie, Virgin Atlantic has also stopped flying to HKG, so now can't use that as a stepping stone to the UK with the "Virgin Group" anymore, either.

Remember shortly after VA started the HKG service, the protests / crack-downs reduced a lot of travel, and this was all pre-covid. The airport was even occupied by protesters at one point I believe. VA didn't have much of a chance with a new service, and I think a lot of it was unfortunate luck/timing on their part.