Too many status flyers? Where will the love go....

[munitalP]

After gratefully taking a VA status match last night - I went from VA Gold to Platinum*, I will hold Gold in my own right before my status year ends, I cant see retaining platinum as our company fly QF policy is quite strict (but can hold Gold through personal flying), it got me thinking about a few things... (*importantly for me to HH Diamond from Gold)

Complaints.

<line 4> Ignoring the VA Fanboi complaints... particularly coming from twice a year fliers! </line 4>

On AFF there seems to be a lot of complaints leveled at Qantas (by QF status PAX) following similar lines to:

1. Status PAX on QF not receiving recognition
2. Status PAX not getting upgrades as there are no seats left as status PAX have already taken them
3. The QF lounges are always so crowded... One or two have even mentioned they would rather sit out with the plebs... (yeah right)
4. Long lines at status PAX check in...

the list could easily go on...

So, now there will be potentially the same number of VA status PAX as there will be QF PAX - what the hell is going to be different? Seriously. The love VA have shown their (actual) status PAX I believe will be lost now due to the watering down of status and the ease to get it.

Have VA made a huge mistake? Should status matches been made for PAX only with a history of some flying with VA over the last 6-12 months?

I also feel for the status earners (LR for example) who have just been trumped by some "have never flown VA" flyer who is now platinum.

And before the Fanboi brigade descend upon me to flame me to death, if you fit into the category of line 4 of this post - don't bother quoting stuff you know nothing about except for what you have read about on the internet...!


Some food for thought...


munitalP

:?::idea::?::idea:

 

[Fantic125]

All valid points, and it will be interesting to see in 12 months time how much value VA have received from the status match process. I suspect there may be an initial surge of activity from the comped Platinum's but I suspect it may taper off as the months go past.

I can also understand the "true" VA fliers (who have earned their status through actual flying with VA) feeling somewhat annoyed by being overlooked or not recognised for their effort in supporting VA (a similar situation for QFF WP's a few months ago when improvements were made to all levels except WP's.) Possibly VA should have considered comping their longer term or higher value Gold members as well?

It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[oz_mark]

GIven we have already heard from some VA folk that they don't feel the special treatment anymore, I suspect things will just head down that way more.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, I think some of the features may be a bit unsustainable (ATA for golds as an example). I imagine that if they take that away there will be an unholey stink.

Have they made a huge mistake? I don't think so. I look at all this as a bit (actually a lot) of a marketing exercise. They need to get people to at least try out their product, so they need to remove as many of the arguments that people throw up as reasons why they won't at least try them out. So, yes there will be a surge in passengers. Some will just go back to the Qantas side, some will move across to VA, and some will spread their business around.

What else could they have done? Let's face it, whoever came up with the idea of status in these programs to begin with was a genius. Just look at how many people like the way that they get their ego's stroked by having status. So, Virgin had to give them some status if they were even going to try it out.

 

[notzac]

And before the Fanboi brigade descend upon me to flame me to death, if you fit into the category of line 4 of this post - don't bother quoting stuff you know nothing about except for what you have read about on the internet...!

Ahhahahaha..!!

Seriously though, as someone who would count as a "status earner" in your books -- not hugely worried. The lounges will absolutely be busier and those wonderful priority boarding queues might end up with a few more people in it, but long term things will settle down .. the cynic in me says that QF pax will mostly end up staying QF pax after a fling with the competition, but I also have faith that VA's management will make it work, somehow.

It's going to be an interesting 12 months, that's for sure.

 

[munitalP]

Ahhahahaha..!!

Seriously though, as someone who would count as a "status earner" in your books -- not hugely worried. The lounges will absolutely be busier and those wonderful priority boarding queues might end up with a few more people in it, but long term things will settle down .. the cynic in me says that QF pax will mostly end up staying QF pax after a fling with the competition, but I also have faith that VA's management will make it work, somehow.

It's going to be an interesting 12 months, that's for sure.

I hope you are right.

 

[LiamR]

I agree with the OP. I remember seeing a photo of a crowded Virgin Melbourne lounge recently, with people unable to get a seat.

Sure, it was the first day of the Velocity relaunch. But I'd hate for "Actual FF'ers" to be turned away because the lounge is full. I think there's a chance we will see some significant crowding in the lounges in the coming months.

I can't fly for a few weeks due to illness, but I was planning on going to Sydney tomorrow morning, when I did OLCI this morning. I could no longer select row 3!:shock: Meaning I have lost the extra legroom associated with sitting in an ex-PE row. I could select row 4, but I hate this row, as it has been proven Row 4 has the least amount of legroom in any seat forward of the exit rows.

To me that is negative feature. Is it a one off because everybody selected before me? Perhaps. I don't know.

Ever since they let flexies (That is, those who purchased a flexi fare) use the priority checkin line. That queue has gotten worse too.

Don't get me wrong, the airline has gotten extremely better from where it was 12mths ago. The new lounges, aircraft and reward program is great. So inevitably there was going to be an increase in status pax.

I'll be keen to see what the Qantas Clubs and J lounges look like in the following months, I wonder if they will start to empty out? In my opinion the amount of people in the Qantas lounges is a good way of seeing how the airline is going.

I also feel for the status earners (LR for example) who have just been trumped by some "have never flown VA" flyer who is now platinum.

Thanks for the sympathy.

Seriously though, as someone who would count as a "status earner" in your books -- not hugely worried. The lounges will absolutely be busier and those wonderful priority boarding queues might end up with a few more people in it, but long term things will settle down .. the cynic in me says that QF pax will mostly end up staying QF pax after a fling with the competition, but I also have faith that VA's management will make it work, somehow.

It's going to be an interesting 12 months, that's for sure.

I think you are right, once the dust settles form this big wow factor VA have put out to encourage people to switch, it should go back to normal. Of course the lounges will be a little more crowded, but that was always going to happen. I'm sure Borghetti has a plan in place to manage the crowds.

 

[Brisbane Flyer]

Having been a loyal QF flyer for years (30k+ status credits and QFF member since 1993), I went ahead and applied for the status match to Platinum.

Reasons being:

a) My membership year is April to March with QF. With VA it will be Sept to August, so an easily qualify for Platinum on both.

b) I have almost re-qualified for Platinum with QF this year, partner gold is not a big deal, so not interested in pursuing, nor is P1.

c) I have 3 trips to USA in next 6 months planned (Biz trip to Silicon Valley in Oct, cruise out of Galveston Texas in Feb and 50th birthday bash in Seattle in Maui (late March) and conference in Vegas mid April), plus some China/ASEAN trips coming up. So will easily requalify for VA Platinum when my QF membership year ends.

d) I buy my tickets ex-LAX, so can take advantage of ex-USA sales when they come up (with QF its quite often, not sure about VA).

My family and I have always received good service with QF, have had alot of Y to J upgrades, so no complaints. But, I'm going to see what VA has offer, part of me wants to see what the new VA management can do to bring true equality to the skies. QF will still get alot of my $$, but so will VA, if they convince me they have the product and service.

Cheers
Brisbane Flyer

 

[Justinf]

I earned DJ Gold the hard way. 90% self funded and it is somewhat annoying that my hard yards seem so flippant with the status matching.
But what can you do? I guess I just enjoy what I have and be happy for others who are lucky.

 

[Mal]

I thought about this topic extensively yesterday, and have chatted with a couple of AFF'ers about it. Velocity could have done the matching in better ways, but overall it's a marketing exercise, a teaser and a way to encourage high value spend on DJ.

I'd hate for "Actual FF'ers" to be turned away because the lounge is full. I think there's a chance we will see some significant crowding in the lounges in the coming months.

I find it a little difficult to believe that mere hours after a status match is mentioned, that the lounge would be full of people (based on that status match). And, although it is Melbourne where lounge hopping isn't overly difficult, it is still a good walk. Normal traffic maybe? Busy night for Golds flying??

In the future, yes the lounges will get busier, but they are fairly large to start with (at least the ones I've seen) and can handle a certain number of pax. One of the fears people seem to have is that the lounges will be full of status matched QF flyers using ATA but flying QF. I think this isn't a great argument, as those status flyers already have access to the QP. Yes it will occur ... but probably not to the extent people fear.

Also, not 100% sure, but people who signed up online probably may not have any documentation at the moment (in lounge sign-ups get the temporary card). So, this probably wouldn't be affecting lounge access.

And finally, the "come see our lounges" promos that have been recently running would have attracted most of the same types who have status matched. Were the lounges overcrowded then?

I can't fly for a few weeks due to illness, but I was planning on going to Sydney tomorrow morning, when I did OLCI this morning. I could no longer select row 3!:shock: Meaning I have lost the extra legroom associated with sitting in an ex-PE row. I could select row 4, but I hate this row, as it has been proven Row 4 has the least amount of legroom in any seat forward of the exit rows.

To me that is negative feature. Is it a one off because everybody selected before me? Perhaps. I don't know.

Again, I find it a little difficult to believe that this is a direct result of the status matching. I doubt many of the physical matches have been processed into the system. As an example those being matched at the lounge (and getting a physical cardboard card) are most likely still their old status online.

I do sympathise with Golds who are now "2nd tier" because Plats at QF were matched, but give it time to see what happens. The changes may not be that huge over the longer term, and the following mitigating factors apply:
- If matched, but not flying DJ, they won't be taking seats on planes (and I believe lounge access would also be the same).
- If matched, and flying DJ frequently, they are likely to get to the status anyway over the year.
- FF status will disappear from those who don't fly DJ enough.

 

[loobloke]

I do sympathise with Golds who are now "2nd tier" because Plats at QF were matched, but give it time to see what happens. The changes may not be that huge over the longer term, and the following mitigating factors apply:
- If matched, but not flying DJ, they won't be taking seats on planes (and I believe lounge access would also be the same).
- If matched, and flying DJ frequently, they are likely to get to the status anyway over the year.
- FF status will disappear from those who don't fly DJ enough.

I'll be gold at the end of the year, but doubt I'll ever make platinum..

1. When they do fly on the plane that one off time, they will compete with the actual FF loyal to VA for say the best seats/service, and will be a slap in the face to the loyal FF who risks losing benefits that they have actually earned. When staff are doing op-ups, will they notice any difference from a WP matched who barely flies VA, or a DJ gold who earned his status???

2. Good on them and VA.

3. Sure their FF status will disappear, in 2 years time without them having to even spend any money on VA. I specifically book many flights (many times even flexi) on VA just for the status over more convenient flights for the status. (EG: DRW where they can't seem to ever have decent timed flights) I think the current system is easily open to abuse by Plats too ...

The issue is that I don't think they have any way to identify flyers who deserve the bonuses due to loyalty, over the infrequent flyers (WP matched) who have zero intention of being loyal to FA.

I wish the status match had been done a bit differently, I don't know if this happens already but I hope the system allows them to differentiate between flyers who earned VA Gold, over flyers who were comped status, and staff are trained to recognize them accordingly. (Tricky issue here, which ones are the comped flyers who actually can be persuaded to join VA?)

2 years of free status can easily be abused by some flyers, I had hoped also they had a better system where the flyers with zero intention of switching over a weeded out faster. Those interested in switching over could easily maintain their status if they were genuine in flying VA.

 

[indigo1]

Some good points - But, just because these people have been comped status with Virgin, doesn't mean they are all going to exercise the rights of their new status. I suspect many will stay with QF, but if an exceptionally cheaper fare is available with VA, they may choose them. There will be a small minority, such as AFFers who will try to maintain status with both though.

 

[Undercover Brother]

I would have thought that to the AFF community this may seem to be correct, but on the whole I cannot imagine much of a change to the status quo.

Given that this community is a relativley small cross section of frequent flyers, and the amount of people being comped in lounges is being quoted in 2 figures region per day, the chance of a lounge being more crowded on your particular day & time I would say are litte more than negligible.

 

[opusman]

I earned DJ Gold the hard way. 90% self funded and it is somewhat annoying that my hard yards seem so flippant with the status matching.

Don't forget the people getting their status matched had to do the hard yards to get that status on Qantas.

 

[under the radar]

After gratefully taking a VA status match last night - I went from VA Gold to Platinum*, I will hold Gold in my own right before my status year ends, I cant see retaining platinum as our company fly QF policy is quite strict (but can hold Gold through personal flying), it got me thinking about a few things... (*importantly for me to HH Diamond from Gold)

Complaints.

<line 4> Ignoring the VA Fanboi complaints... particularly coming from twice a year fliers! </line 4>

On AFF there seems to be a lot of complaints leveled at Qantas (by QF status PAX) following similar lines to:

1. Status PAX on QF not receiving recognition
2. Status PAX not getting upgrades as there are no seats left as status PAX have already taken them
3. The QF lounges are always so crowded... One or two have even mentioned they would rather sit out with the plebs... (yeah right)
4. Long lines at status PAX check in...

the list could easily go on...

So, now there will be potentially the same number of VA status PAX as there will be QF PAX - what the hell is going to be different? Seriously. The love VA have shown their (actual) status PAX I believe will be lost now due to the watering down of status and the ease to get it.

Have VA made a huge mistake? Should status matches been made for PAX only with a history of some flying with VA over the last 6-12 months?

I also feel for the status earners (LR for example) who have just been trumped by some "have never flown VA" flyer who is now platinum.

And before the Fanboi brigade descend upon me to flame me to death, if you fit into the category of line 4 of this post - don't bother quoting stuff you know nothing about except for what you have read about on the internet...!


Some food for thought...


munitalP

:?::idea::?::idea:

i totally agree..looking forward to the increase in complaints/whinges from all the extra f/fers being directed towards virgin instead of qantas now! thinking the grass is greener..isnt necessarily a good thing when all those who killed the grass on the qantas side all flock over to the virgin grass...and ultimately kill that grass too!! very cryptic i know....but think about it!!

 

[tuapekastar]

I'm probably not introducing anything that hasn't already been alluded to somewhere in this thread, but I don't see how VA could have done this much differently, assuming they had decided a concerted effort was required to lure potentially disaffected QFFers (and even some curious ones who are/were perfectly happy with QF) to cross the divide (or at least walk from T1 to T3 at MEL).

The scheme looks very very good, but if people of Gold or Plat status on say QF have to revert to non-status flying for some time - 3, 6, maybe 12 months (no lounges, no priority checkin, no extra baggage etc.) - in order to reap the benefits, they're most likely to stay where they are. By offering the match, VA are going to gain some extra business from most of the matchees (is that a word?), and probably get quite a few who will switch camps completely.

As has been remarked, it is a bit rough on say existing VA Golds who are getting trumped by matched Plats but I just don't see any practical way around that if they're going to match people. And this sort of practice has been going on for a long time. A small beer example, but when I was a long time subscriber to The Age newspaper (I get my news fixes electronically these days) they would periodically have 'prize draws' (bottles of Grange and the like) open to any new subscribers - I used to feel a little miffed, but got used to it. I don't think the fears of lounge overcrowding and longer queues will amount to much. The ATA will not be used much, certainly not while the matchees still have QF status.

Provided my requested match is approved I will definitely be doing some VA flying and potentially switching camps completely, subject to a comparison of both schemes and how they line up against my flying habits/needs/plans (it would be both remiss and foolhardy of me not to undertake this exercise). On the other hand, if it is not approved...

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Personally? I think VA are right to offer status matches. No better way to get the FFers to fly with them (or at least try them). I hope it works for them.

They could however, have done it differently.

Firstly, I think there should have been targets set (like the HH Diamond has) to retain the "gift horse" status after 6 months.......maybe 4 sectors or x number of SCs and lose the soft landing for a year (virtually forcing a "use it or lose it" policy).

Secondly, they should have honoured their FF golds with a similar incentive, let's say plat attain @ 800 SCs within 6 months (same as requal) in lieu of the normal 1000 and a similar offer to DJ genuine plats for family member status.

Thirdly, add lifetime status but calculated only on earned SCs, which can only ensure ongoing loyalty.

Don't restrict the comped Plats (or for that matter the genuine golds), as some of the benefits are real drawcards (like ATA).

Just my thoughts (not sure if I'm classified as a "fanboi" or not, but who cares).

 

[Happy Trails]

3. The QF lounges are always so crowded... One or two have even mentioned they would rather sit out with the plebs... (yeah right)

This is exactly what I did at PER two days ago.

 

[Noob]

As it has been stated by Velocity Frequent Flyer the amount of status matches has been caped at a predetermined amount which Virgin Australia obviously feels would not detract from the experience and which their preexisting infrastructure can handle without crowding.

As what has also been clarified by Velocity Frequent Flyer, Virgin had to do this for their 'game change' plans to be successful - and investment in infrastructure e.g. new lounges would not be profitable without an increase in status pax. I agree however, that for members like myself who have built themselves up to Gold but don't fly enough to make platinum it is a bit frustrating to see "Virgin doubters" get "free" status above them...At the end of the day the only people who will get to maintain VA status after 12 months will be those who have maintained some level of loyalty, and when I think about it more and more I feel less agitated about it.

I don't think crowding will be an issue in the Sydney Lounge when the upstairs is opened (which was said to occur in the SYD lounge revamp in a Virgin statement) - However, after experiencing the Brisbane lounge I feel they simply need more space if they wish to grow their FF program and consequently status members. Such observations lead myself to think J/Platinum lounges may be coming especially with such a fantastic architectural space above the current SYD lounge as featured in the new Velocity Frequent Flyer commercial.

I think those who wish to status match should do ASAP to avoid any tears because the cap point could be reached at any time!

<redacted>cheers.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

At the end of the day the only people who will get to maintain VA status after 12 months will be those who have maintained some level of loyalty

As it stands, from my understanding, a WP matched ViP will retain status without spending a zac, for up to three years :shock:. First year as Platinum, 2nd year as gold and third year as silver, which means lounge usage with ATA could be an issue for 2 years at least. That's why I think it's important to lose the soft landing for comped WPs. If they don't, won't, can't or shan't use DJ at all within 6 months, then the gifted staus should be revoked (unless extenuating circumstances are evident) and if they can't maintain at least 200 SCs (silver) after 12 months, then red it should be.

 

[MarkD]

If they don't, won't, can't or shan't use DJ at all within 6 months, then the gifted staus should be revoked (unless extenuating circumstances are evident) and if they can't maintain at least 200 SCs (silver) after 12 months, then red it should be.

What he said +1



Damn you iphone and fat fingers. Sent from my iphone and AFF app )