Too many status flyers? Where will the love go....

[jakeseven7]

I have to say as a flyer that got DJ gold the hard way I'm pretty pissed off.

I understand Virgin are desperate for cash - just look at their P&L - but I think they may have gone too hard too early (Nothing really has changed much in the air!).

 

[koonyaflyer]

I had the temerity to raise this matter on Day 1 of the new programme, and felt quite firmly put back in my place, with Virgin Australia explaining that they need extra pax flying to make Virgin Australia "fly". I absolutely agree, but like some other DJ Gold on this forum I still feel agrieved at the lack of acknowledgement of loyalty for "older" DJ Gold.

I my eyes, biased though they be, given that I am between the 800 SC required for requalification, and the 1000SC for qualification it makes sense that I to should have been offered a Status match to Platinum. Is that any different to the direct status match being offered to bring people across from QF?

For 5 years I have demonstrated loyalty to to Virgin, with at least the last 3 or 4 as Gold. This is fully self funded, but is business related as I work in Sydney and live in Tasmania. In the past year I have also achieved SQ Silver (nearly Gold) and Silver QF. Had DJ offered me Singapore as a destination from either Melbourne or Sydney I would happily have flown them for my 4 J class return - but the frequency of EY in and out of BNE just does not fit my work needs. (Hurry up with SQ!)

So.... to cut my sob story just a little shorter I have nearly achieved Platinum by simple Domestic Flights, many of which until June were at slighltly lower earn rates than current levels. DJ - am I, and others like me, not worth a Status match - to return just a little of love we have shown you through the highs and lows of the past 5 years?


Ultimately it doesn't matter that they haven't status matched me as I will reach Platinum in about 6 weeks. It is the fact that the way the status match has been done i feel has devalued my loyalty.

So DJ my suggestions that could potentially have avoided some of the dissatisfaction I feel are:

• Status Match carried out in a less "but wait there's more" fashion, perhaps with some of the Status upgrade "tag ons" such as Hilton, offered after a certain number of SC have been attained
• Waiver of 1000SC credit qualification for existing DJ Gold, provided they had achieved at least the 800SC credits required for requalification

It is a lot cheaper to keep and exisiting customer than to gain a new one, and I think it is clear that DJ have cut costs with some of the more loyal flyers!

 

[theintelligent1]

This is exactly what I did at PER two days ago.

Feel your pain as a fellow PER flyer......always do a quick scan of the QF lounge vs. non lounge and then decide to go where the bogan quotient is the least.......

another reason im itching for my match to come through.....

 

[Jack Melon]

To the people that think that have been loyal to Virgin and think previous QFF's get there status with Virgin easy think again!

1. They earnt it the hard way as well, it sounds like you think they did not fly at all.
2. The more velocity people, the better.
3. If they capture what they want, that is good business and they can bring prices down.

<redacted>

Jack

 

[markis10]

From where I stand, it's a win no matter who you prefer to fly for.

If you are a QF flyer, DJ have just taken some of the pressure off you in terms of benefits and your queue length.

If your a DJ flyer, yes you are now sharing your little patch with more friends, and the existence of QF benefits have forced DJ to go one better in a lot of cases, whom is to say you would have got those benefits otherwise!

I am lucky to be in the position to requal Platinum in both without an issue in 4 weeks time, so I get to choose on a trip by trip basis what makes sense for me, once I hit LTG with QF I will be looking to add a third program to the mix, if QF decide that WPs are worth some attention, that may change!

This is the third time Virgin have done a status match, and I know for a fact quite a few AFF members have requalified status after such a match, I suspect the benefits of DJ PLAT will help push that a lot higher. In the mean time sit back, relax, and enjoy the benefits of competition!

 

[koonyaflyer]

To the people that think that have been loyal to Virgin and think previous QFF's get there status with Virgin easy think again!

1. They earnt it the hard way as well, it sounds like you think they did not fly at all.
2. The more velocity people, the better.
3. If they capture what they want, that is good business and they can bring prices down.

<redacted>

Jack

I see the general tone of this thread as a discussion on the challenges of using a Loyalty "tool' (FF programme) as an acquistion tool. So it is not necessarily saying that people "think they did not fly at all", they are saying "they chose to do so with another airline". Loyalty and acquistion are not necessarily good bedmates.

 

[Travel Guru]

To the people that think that have been loyal to Virgin and think previous QFF's get there status with Virgin easy think again!

1. They earnt it the hard way as well, it sounds like you think they did not fly at all.
2. The more velocity people, the better.
3. If they capture what they want, that is good business and they can bring prices down.

<redacted>

Jack

I'm sorry, but what makes you think that if business is good that that will automatically correlate to them lowering prices? (Point #3)

Also, how is having more velocity people better for the program as a whole or it's existing members.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against anything VA have done, i'm in favour of it for the most part, but just wondered what your logic was with regard to those 2 comments.


TG

 

[TonyHancock]

I think the prospect of VA/DJ not being able to supply benefits, like "comfortable" lounge access is a real threat. Having said that if I were in a senior position at VA/DJ I'd take the view that "too many" customers is a problem I'd prefer to "not enough" customers. I'd probably make a crass management statement along the lines of "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it!".

Back in 2001/2002 I was one of the ones that just did not even bother to go into the QF domestic lounges. :shock: They were crammed with QF and former Ansett FF's, it was nigh on impossible to get a seat. Just out of interest did QF status match with Ansett's FF's or were they "encouraged" to buy QP status? I know at the time I was pretty fed up with QF over the lounge issue. In the end QF extended the lounges, and I guess if VA/DJ retains a decent percentage of QFF's then they will find a way to deliver service and benefits eventually.

I think things will sort themselves out by the end of the year. QF will respond, after a time deigned long enough to avoid being criticised for a knee jerk reaction, and layout it's WP1 offering and improved upgrades....and you never know perhaps some other improvements. Some newly anointed VA golds and platinums will return to QF and hardly use the VA/DJ benefits whilst some will fly more with VA/DJ.

The thing that struck me about the way DJ/VA handled the status match was the honesty. Yep they thought about the impact on existing FF's but they need to attract customers. and weren't frightened to say so. I fear QF would have come out with all sorts of carefully worded marketing bollocks. This may be cold comfort to those DJ Golds who have put in the hard yards and feel disenfranchised but VA/DJ had to do this.

As a hardened QF loyalist I'm taking the status match and I will be flying VA/DJ and checking out the "dark side". I have a feeling that VA/DJ will deliver.

 

[connieguy]

I think the prospect of VA/DJ not being able to supply benefits, like "comfortable" lounge access is a real threat.

The 10 or so times I have been in a VA lounge, you could fire off a cannon and not hit anybody. VA built new and larger lounges to cater for the additional customers the status match will generate. VA are doing a good job in attracting QF WPs to fly with them. Those that can not regain status will, in time, drop out of the system.

As for me, I fully expect to earn my 1,000 SCs in my first VA year and like many other WPs, would not have made the change without VAs understanding that they needed to give us their Golden Handcuffs as QF has done or very few would have made the change.

What I like in VA is the very visible evidence of a management team which understands what they need to do quickly gain business via diverting QF WP spend from QF and to VA. I like VA and they vision they have and are putting into place.

Compare this to the fight we have had in getting QF to understand they are advertising "Domestic Priority Boarding" as a benefit, are not delivering it and they do not seem to understand how much this has hurt their credibility and literally opened doors that VA oh so easily successfully attacked.

 

[connieguy]

I have to say as a flyer that got DJ gold the hard way I'm pretty pissed off.

I understand Virgin are desperate for cash - just look at their P&L - but I think they may have gone too hard too early (Nothing really has changed much in the air!).

I will regain my VA WP status by flying and paying for at least 1,000 SCs in my first WP year. Last year I earned 3,200 SCs and VA got no income from those butt in the seat miles. Now they will get at least 1/3 of my spend.

Oh BTW I did earn my QF WP status the hard way and probably flew 6 times as many miles as you did to earn your VA Gold. VA are not giving away status. They are matching other airlines high mileage FFers to gain their business. I mean that is what they do for a business. Fly people around and develop programs to capture more of the market.

These extra FFer Pax will ensure those that have invested the capital in VA to see their investment worked. That will enable further investment in VA, which will build an even better VA. I'm sure you and the other "hard way VA FFers" will like enjoying the benefits these new FFer VA customers will, in the longer term, bring to you. Part of this will be funded by the money I will be spending with VA that would otherwise have been spent with QF.

If I was you, I would welcome all the VA WP status matches and the additional money they will spend with VA to retain their VA WP status.

 

[serfty]

...
Back in 2001/2002 I was one of the ones that just did not even bother to go into the QF domestic lounges. :shock: They were crammed with QF and former Ansett FF's, it was nigh on impossible to get a seat. Just out of interest did QF status match with Ansett's FF's or were they "encouraged" to buy QP status? I know at the time I was pretty fed up with QF over the lounge issue. In the end QF extended the lounges, and I guess if VA/DJ retains a decent percentage of QFF's then they will find a way to deliver service and benefits eventually.
...

No status matches AFAIK - and why would there be with no competition.

I know of some who would travel Business class on the (then more numerous) international domestic segments merely for the lounge access (Business Class domestic PAX did not get COS based QP access). e.g. The old QF21 7pm link flight MEL-SYD. They soon gained QP access though status.

As for the QP catering during that period - it was shocking. Those who complain about the QP catering these days obviously never endured that period.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I see the general tone of this thread as a discussion on the challenges of using a Loyalty "tool' (FF programme) as an acquistion tool. So it is not necessarily saying that people "think they did not fly at all", they are saying "they chose to do so with another airline". Loyalty and acquistion are not necessarily good bedmates.

Actually, that is an exceptionally valid and interesting point.

 

[Mogul]

As someone who has just attained Gold the BIS way I have a mixed view on the status match.

For example a matched Platnium could do 2 return J trips (A330) Syd to Perth for around $1,200. What do loyal Gold's get, nothing.

It is frustrating that people (comp'd Platnium) who haven't flown with VA before overnight become their most looked after customers.

I think VA should have comp'd them Gold and leave Platnium for those that earnt it. That way they can still sample the product (lounge, priority boarding and check in, etc.) without upsetting your loyal $$$$$ customers. Soft landings should also be removed unless they earn enough SC's to achieve Silver.

VA should have considered doing something special for the existing Gold members such as 2 sector upgrades for example. This would cost essentially nothing but might encourage existing FF's to spend more by way of flying J more often. Not only that it would be seen as rewarding the type of customer they are trying to attract.

Enough said lets just wait and see how it all pans out.

:-|:-|:-|

 

[TonyHancock]

No status matches AFAIK - and why would there be with no competition.

I know of some who would travel Business class on one of the (then more numerous) international domestic segments merely for the lounge access (Business Class domestic PAX did not get COS based QP access). e.g. The old QF21 7pm link flight MEL-SYD. They soon gained QP access though status.

As for the QP catering during that period - it was shocking. Those who complain about the QP catering these days obviously never endured that period.

Thanks for that serfty. I kinda thought that on the status matching but didn't know...and yep why would QF even have considered it!

It was a pretty rubbish period for established QFF's.n:-|

 

[DSFlyer]

I had the temerity to raise this matter on Day 1 of the new programme, and felt quite firmly put back in my place, with Virgin Australia explaining that they need extra pax flying to make Virgin Australia "fly". I absolutely agree, but like some other DJ Gold on this forum I still feel agrieved at the lack of acknowledgement of loyalty for "older" DJ Gold.

I my eyes, biased though they be, given that I am between the 800 SC required for requalification, and the 1000SC for qualification it makes sense that I to should have been offered a Status match to Platinum. Is that any different to the direct status match being offered to bring people across from QF?

For 5 years I have demonstrated loyalty to to Virgin, with at least the last 3 or 4 as Gold. This is fully self funded, but is business related as I work in Sydney and live in Tasmania. In the past year I have also achieved SQ Silver (nearly Gold) and Silver QF. Had DJ offered me Singapore as a destination from either Melbourne or Sydney I would happily have flown them for my 4 J class return - but the frequency of EY in and out of BNE just does not fit my work needs. (Hurry up with SQ!)

So.... to cut my sob story just a little shorter I have nearly achieved Platinum by simple Domestic Flights, many of which until June were at slighltly lower earn rates than current levels. DJ - am I, and others like me, not worth a Status match - to return just a little of love we have shown you through the highs and lows of the past 5 years?


Ultimately it doesn't matter that they haven't status matched me as I will reach Platinum in about 6 weeks. It is the fact that the way the status match has been done i feel has devalued my loyalty.

So DJ my suggestions that could potentially have avoided some of the dissatisfaction I feel are:

• Status Match carried out in a less "but wait there's more" fashion, perhaps with some of the Status upgrade "tag ons" such as Hilton, offered after a certain number of SC have been attained
• Waiver of 1000SC credit qualification for existing DJ Gold, provided they had achieved at least the 800SC credits required for requalification

It is a lot cheaper to keep and exisiting customer than to gain a new one, and I think it is clear that DJ have cut costs with some of the more loyal flyers!

I agree totally. Up until 3 weeks ago I actually had over 1000 SC but have now dropped back to 897 as of this week. I will be flying in the coming month that will ensure I reach platinum however I really feel that the loyal VA flyer who have earned that statuses and supported Virgin over the years should have been given some thought when it came to the Platinum matching.

 

[loobloke]

As someone who has just attained Gold the BIS way I have a mixed view on the status match.

For example a matched Platnium could do 2 return J trips (A330) Syd to Perth for around $1,200. What do loyal Gold's get, nothing.

It is frustrating that people (comp'd Platnium) who haven't flown with VA before overnight become their most looked after customers.

I think VA should have comp'd them Gold and leave Platnium for those that earnt it. That way they can still sample the product (lounge, priority boarding and check in, etc.) without upsetting your loyal $$$$$ customers. Soft landings should also be removed unless they earn enough SC's to achieve Silver.

VA should have considered doing something special for the existing Gold members such as 2 sector upgrades for example. This would cost essentially nothing but might encourage existing FF's to spend more by way of flying J more often. Not only that it would be seen as rewarding the type of customer they are trying to attract.

Enough said lets just wait and see how it all pans out.

:-|:-|:-|

+1

Another poorly thought out and executed idea by VA. And it may have been nice to give some warning about Platinum launch so that current customers could actually prepare for it instead of and try to aim for it, instead of handing them out to all the QFFs leaving the older golds at a shock.

By the looks of it, to me at least, it shows how they value their customers: New potential customers from QF, then their original customers.

I find it humorous that they changed their SC's earning a while back because they said it devalued the loyalty levels. I really wonder how they are valuating their loyalty levels now??
And if they will change their terms for this offer, like they did when they changed SC's.

 

[malmacdowall]

I see the general tone of this thread as a discussion on the challenges of using a Loyalty "tool' (FF programme) as an acquistion tool. So it is not necessarily saying that people "think they did not fly at all", they are saying "they chose to do so with another airline". Loyalty and acquistion are not necessarily good bedmates.

This is one of the clearest observations regarding this that I have seen..... Thanks for the clarity..... "Loyalty and acquistion are not necessarily good bedmates"

 

[trippin_the_rift]

VA lost $67m last year.

If things were fine with the current number of VA elites, there wouldn't be a status match in place.

VA needs these Qantas dollars to survive and while there may be less love to go around for now, it's better than VA closing their doors.

 

[connieguy]

VA lost $67m last year. If things were fine with the current number of VA elites, there wouldn't be a status match in place. VA needs these Qantas dollars to survive and while there may be less love to go around for now, it's better than VA closing their doors.

Every airline needs dollars to survive. VA is no different to QF. I don't think VA will close up shop but they do need more big and frequent spenders to fill up the new lounges, their planes and the VA bank balance. Where can they get those big and frequent spenders? From Qantas. Where else? What will it cost them to alter the existing QF WPs and SGs spend with VA? The VA Status Match and a equal or better FFer program than Qantas offers.

The existing VA FFers should be pleased VA are doing this as the extra income from the new FFers spend to retain their new VA status will allow VA to continue to expand and grow their domestic and international business and as a result offer their FFers (old and new) an even better program.

 

[connieguy]

Actually, that is an exceptionally valid and interesting point.

Yup. That is what FFer Golden Handcuffs do. They entice you in with the benefits and once there make it very hard for you to leave. Elite FFer programs are a entrapment system, plain and simple.