Uber comes to Australia

[doctau]

It's interesting looking at all of the concerns regarding surge pricing on NYE in Sydney. I looked at about 2am for a sydney city to rockdale fare and it was quoting $300-400. I got a cab for $45.

How long would you have waited for the Uber versus the Taxi? One of my friends in Sydney made the same decision, but then waited in line for well over an hour to get a taxi. If people are willing to pay to get an Uber quickly versus wait for a taxi, I don't think it's a bad thing to have the choice.

Price gouging to take advantage of a situation and the free market responding to supply-demand are really just the same thing, depending on whether you agree with it or not

 

[scwappy]

Arrived at Sydney airport this past Sunday and the taxi que enormous. A quick Uber summons and we were on the way within a minute as the driver was waiting in the HC carpark.

 

[Deleted member]

Uber drivers in the ACT are using their normal insurance. A few of the big insurers – NRMA, for example – have indicated that they are Uber-friendly.

I'm finding that after accounting for all the costs and taxes, it works out to be pretty much the same hourly rate in hand as for a taxi driver; i.e. not enough to raise a family on, but certainly enough for me to round out my public service pension.

And the working conditions are far superior to taxidriving.

I am a regular at my local supermarket, as such I have formed nodding acquaintances with some of the staff.
One lady remarked to me the other day that her husband has started working (after hours) as an uber driver, raking in an additional $50k in the last 12 months.
So in addition to his 40 hour week "day Job" he is hitting the streets in what can only be be described as , a questionable level of alertness.
I suspect taxi drivers do long hours as well. I'm not sure what the an

 

[anat0l]

How long would you have waited for the Uber versus the Taxi? One of my friends in Sydney made the same decision, but then waited in line for well over an hour to get a taxi. If people are willing to pay to get an Uber quickly versus wait for a taxi, I don't think it's a bad thing to have the choice.

I guess the key is are people willing to pay for an Uber under surge. Maybe at 2.2x or less, perhaps, unless their standard fare would have been $100 or so.

If a high surge really only draws out more drivers but doesn't produce a fare, one might argue how successful such a model is.

Price gouging to take advantage of a situation and the free market responding to supply-demand are really just the same thing, depending on whether you agree with it or not

I agree - seems to be a mot du jour thrown around a bit these days. I didn't like what I willingly paid = that's price gouging. Whilst many will argue that we still need legislative protection against unfair prices, an in-principle "I paid too much" should not be an automatic trigger for noting a case as price gouging.

I am a regular at my local supermarket, as such I have formed nodding acquaintances with some of the staff.
One lady remarked to me the other day that her husband has started working (after hours) as an uber driver, raking in an additional $50k in the last 12 months.
So in addition to his 40 hour week "day Job" he is hitting the streets in what can only be be described as , a questionable level of alertness.
I suspect taxi drivers do long hours as well. I'm not sure what the an

Depends on when he works his Uber hours I guess. One might infer that a 40 hr work week is standard and anything else out of that should be considered as worked time under non-standard conditions. That said, working more than 40 hrs per week, whether officially on the clock or not, is considered nearly a standard these days, and in many cases, necessary or expected. So people have adjusted their bodies to a great degree to adapt to this. Same thing with people working 1 or 2 extra jobs.

I can see the safety aspect of where you are coming from. That said, I've also met a taxi driver who drives taxis by day but works in a convenience store by night. From what I gather, he was easily exceeding 40 hrs a week altogether too, much more. I guess I should have been scared? Or, otherwise that guy's blood type must have been caffeine.

 

[yohy?!]

It's interesting looking at all of the concerns regarding surge pricing on NYE in Sydney. I looked at about 2am for a sydney city to rockdale fare and it was quoting $300-400. I got a cab for $45.

Funny how we all thought uber was the fix to the problem...

Now that state governments are regulating, id say they have an obligation to outlaw this stupid profit grabbing feature of the ap. A taxi has never been allowed to do such a thing

taxis do price gouge on new years eve, they just refuse to take you without agreement to a higher fare and drive off (e.g. $100 for cbd to bondi as I've had before).

either that or there would be no taxis at all and you're walking due to such high demand.

if you'd waited another 45mins as we did the prices dropped right back - the surges will reduce as more and more uber drivers come on board to match the demand. plenty of taxi drivers signing up also.

 

[anat0l]

taxis do price gouge on new years eve, they just refuse to take you without agreement to a higher fare and drive off (e.g. $100 for cbd to bondi as I've had before).

Ranked taxis surely cannot get away with that; you're virtually ushered into the vehicle before any negotiations like that start. You can be refused a ride for not showing proof of payment in advance, but negotiating well over a metered fare seems a bit more difficult (i.e. how are they going to force you out of the taxi, on what grounds). Hailed taxis maybe, but they are rare enough as it is on NYE.

I guess if that did happen, taxis would have their 15 minutes of infamy on the TV as well.

 

[penegal]

Surge Pricing is an interesting one.

I certainly see the argument that a surge price may entice a few drivers to get off the couch and drive into the city to pick up some fares. However Anecdotal evidence from uber drivers suggests that few people actually accept the surge, instead they use the "notify me when surge ends" feature and the real surge of hires occurs after the surge pricing ends.

The app quite clearly indicates that the fare will be higher. Anyone who drunkenly accepts surge pricing and complains about it later only has themselves to blame. It's no different to being the person who keeps drinking and buys more than their fair share of rounds, or the gambler who drops mega $$ "all on Black" - you can't get a refund the next day when you realise you just spent more than you expected.

Become an adult, and take some ownership for your own actions. If you are too drunk to do a quick mental calculation of surge pricing (and realise 6 or 7 times $50 is $300+), then you should have stopped several drinks ago IMHO.

That said, the rates have become ridiculous. There is an argument for some kind of intervention as crazy surge pricing makes drink driving seem like a cheaper alternative which is not a healthy economic behavior.

---

With regards to taxis price gouging customers on "busy nights" - this is common place, along with touting. Yes - it is illegal, but it doesn't mean it doesn't occur.

The classic one I witnessed was with a drunk friend who tried to pay the taxi driver twice (the prepaid estimate, and then again upon arrival at destination). The driver was quite happy to accept the double payment (and not provide change) until I snapped the $50 note out of his hand and gave him a dressing down. It was then a battle to get our ~$4 refund as the meter was ~$46 on a $50 prepayment. If I wasn't there the situation would have be approx 2.2x surge pricing in a taxi.

In addition, I have spend numerous nights standing on the street hailing taxi after taxi and being refused because I am not making a long trip to the same side of town as the taxi driver. Blatant touting.




.

 

[yohy?!]

Ranked taxis surely cannot get away with that; you're virtually ushered into the vehicle before any negotiations like that start. You can be refused a ride for not showing proof of payment in advance, but negotiating well over a metered fare seems a bit more difficult (i.e. how are they going to force you out of the taxi, on what grounds). Hailed taxis maybe, but they are rare enough as it is on NYE.

I guess if that did happen, taxis would have their 15 minutes of infamy on the TV as well.

they may not be allowed by the rules but the whole reason uber is such a success is that taxis flout the rules at will (the poor pay and conditions don't help). there is no negotiation that i have seen, you are given an amount and if you do not accept you are refused. it might not happen to you personally but it certainly does happen.

 

[anat0l]

With regards to taxis price gouging customers on "busy nights" - this is common place, along with touting. Yes - it is illegal, but it doesn't mean it doesn't occur.

The classic one I witnessed was with a drunk friend who tried to pay the taxi driver twice (the prepaid estimate, and then again upon arrival at destination). The driver was quite happy to accept the double payment (and not provide change) until I snapped the $50 note out of his hand and gave him a dressing down. It was then a battle to get our ~$4 refund as the meter was ~$46 on a $50 prepayment. If I wasn't there the situation would have be approx 2.2x surge pricing in a taxi.

The fact your friend was handing over cash meant that it was a ripe prospect to pull something like that. Had it been a card payment, it would have had a full trace* and quite disputable.

Of course, that guarantee would have attracted an extra 11%.

An interesting thing about prepayment, even though one does it in many countries in the world, is that you don't normally get a receipt in advance. Some taxis handwrite receipts rather than print them, but I still doubt they would give you one in advance if you prepay. The electronic system probably can't do much either, or the resulting "prepay" receipt would be fairly non-descript. So, whose onus is it to prove that a payment was already made when the ride is over? (Of course, if we could be all relied on to do the right thing, this conversation is moot).

* As long as the driver doesn't use one of the manual paper systems which have been reportedly ill reputed to another scam that is difficult to trace.

 

[penegal]

The fact your friend was handing over cash meant that it was a ripe prospect to pull something like that. Had it been a card payment, it would have had a full trace* and quite disputable.

Of course, that guarantee would have attracted an extra 11%.

An interesting thing about prepayment, even though one does it in many countries in the world, is that you don't normally get a receipt in advance. Some taxis handwrite receipts rather than print them, but I still doubt they would give you one in advance if you prepay. The electronic system probably can't do much either, or the resulting "prepay" receipt would be fairly non-descript. So, whose onus is it to prove that a payment was already made when the ride is over? (Of course, if we could be all relied on to do the right thing, this conversation is moot).

* As long as the driver doesn't use one of the manual paper systems which have been reportedly ill reputed to another scam that is difficult to trace.

Credit card payment would have still allowed the driver to keep the $50 deposit. (unless that was also card).

 

[woodborer]

Become an adult, and take some ownership for your own actions. If you are too drunk to do a quick mental calculation of surge pricing (and realise 6 or 7 times $50 is $300+), then you should have stopped several drinks ago IMHO.

Maybe, but the words of the ACL require a single price to be specified, at least as prominently as the components. Now, Uber just give an estimate, but I would have thought that in the sprirt of the ACL Uber would provide a price estimate that showed the total price sstimate, on the screen that shows the surge?

 

[yohy?!]

Maybe, but the words of the ACL require a single price to be specified, at least as prominently as the components. Now, Uber just give an estimate, but I would have thought that in the sprirt of the ACL Uber would provide a price estimate that showed the total price sstimate, on the screen that shows the surge?

They do - the fare estimate now shows the total amount factoring in the surge (in the past it didn't).

These folks complaining didn't bother to do an estimate and just accepted the 6x or whatever (that's assuming they're not plants from the taxi lobby to try and damage uber).

 

[turnip666]

Why is surge pricing regarded as different to what the airlines do with their demand management systems?

Haven't bought too many full price Y tickets while drunk but the basis is the same.

 

[penegal]

Maybe, but the words of the ACL require a single price to be specified, at least as prominently as the components. Now, Uber just give an estimate, but I would have thought that in the sprirt of the ACL Uber would provide a price estimate that showed the total price sstimate, on the screen that shows the surge?

They do - the fare estimate now shows the total amount factoring in the surge (in the past it didn't).

These folks complaining didn't bother to do an estimate and just accepted the 6x or whatever (that's assuming they're not plants from the taxi lobby to try and damage uber).

Agree that under ACL they need to provide a single price (or estimate), but I believe the app in its current form does this.

It's no different than the sticker on a taxi window, or inside of the door which indicates rates. This, and a verbal fare estimates from drivers have been adequate in the eyes of the law for some time.

 

[woodborer]

Agree that under ACL they need to provide a single price (or estimate), but I believe the app in its current form does this. It's no different than the sticker on a taxi window, or inside of the door which indicates rates. This, and a verbal fare estimates from drivers have been adequate in the eyes of the law for some time.

I was just going off your statement about the need to multiply two numbers. Never had a taxi driver give me an estimate in the form of $45 * 7.9

 

[penegal]

I was just going off your statement about the need to multiply two numbers. Never had a taxi driver give me an estimate in the form of $45 * 7.9

This was the case with Uber (previously) - It has since been fixed, so the NYE revelers with large bills should have been aware of the fares they faced.

 

[moa999]

I think the surge is as much about demand management as it is supply.
1.30am on 8x pricing, just have another drink and wait an hour and it drops.
Those that want it right now, pay for it.

 

[penegal]

I think the surge is as much about demand management as it is supply.
1.30am on 8x pricing, just have another drink and wait an hour and it drops.
Those that want it right now, pay for it.

This is what normally happens Friday / Saturday night.

You walk back up to the bar and get another round. Maybe Uber should start charging Bars a fee for introducing surge pricing near their premises?...

 

[N860CR]

How long would you have waited for the Uber versus the Taxi? One of my friends in Sydney made the same decision, but then waited in line for well over an hour to get a taxi. If people are willing to pay to get an Uber quickly versus wait for a taxi, I don't think it's a bad thing to have the choice.

Price gouging to take advantage of a situation and the free market responding to supply-demand are really just the same thing, depending on whether you agree with it or not

I waited about 15 minutes after calling 131008

I'm sure cabbies for years have tried to screw people during holidays, except that behavior was illegal. We've now "legalized it" using the very company that was meant to "fix" the problems of the taxi industry.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate uber for all it is - we just can't be blind to Googles many shortfalls

 

[penegal]

Bit of a side bar.

However for many years I have been reluctant to go to the "city" on NYE because I don't like large crowds of strange people, and transportation has always been an issue. This pre-dates Uber. There is nothing worse than spending hours standing on a street corner trying to get home after what was a good night (until then).

This year I ended up at a friends house with a spare room. We had a lovely meal and watched the fancy fireworks on TV. I stayed in their spare room and went home in the morning.

I can go out to bars, clubs and public events the other 364 days of the year, although in 2016 we get a bonus day, so 365 days.