Uber drivers at CNS routinely cancelling rides to manipulate surge pricing

[Pigg]

There is an Android version: Cairns Taxis – Apps on Google Play

Haven't tried it myself, but should be useful the next time I go to CNS.

True - it's happened quite a few times in Brisbane (not necessarily the airport... old taxi driver tricks in camping at the airport for jobs means there's rarely a job turned down when it's from the airport). Damn annoying really, but nothing much Uber will do about it, even if you report the driver.

It seems quite concentrated at Cairns and more particularly the airport. Usually, even if there are drivers playing that game, there are (in theory) a good decent number of others who aren't and will genuinely take your job and come to pick you up, viz. it shouldn't take 3 or more retries to get a genuine driver, particularly when an international flight has just arrived. It also doesn't make much sense to do the whole go around as Cairns airport and the city centre aren't terribly far apart unlike most other major Australian centres, and what would an Uber driver know anyway - they don't know where they are heading to until they have confirmed that the passenger has been picked up.

If you are a top Uber driver you get a notification telling you how far and which direction the job is. However you only get this by being a top driver which you would never achieve by cancelling even one trip a day.

 

[Pigg]

Yes, they do, and the app was showing the car/driver that initially accepts the job is located there.

So I only see two options for them accepting the job and then cancelling:

1. If they all do this for the jobs, then the "demand" is seen to be rising and hence the pricing surges. Then when they get the price surged enough they decide which of them gets the job (first in the queue perhaps).
2. They are hoping to get jobs to places like Port Douglas (or even Palm Cove - basically further than Cairns CBD). So upon accepting the job and finding it is a short ride to Cairns CBD, the cancel and hope for a more lucrative job from another passenger from the arriving flight.

Either way, it serves to increase the costs to the passengers and causes delays in actually getting the ride. Having been bitten once, I will change my CNS arrivals process for my next visit.

Drivers have no idea where their trip is going until you get in the car. Top drivers get a general direction and length notification but if you cancel one trip a day you would never reach this level. Also, a lot of drivers wouldn't take Port Douglas as you're probably not getting a trip back and evens o, those trips and Palm Cove are few and far between outside of the holiday season.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:16 AM

Saw that AFF have created an article out of this thread.

One thing I picked up is that Didi doesn't have an agreement with Cairns Airport to use the rideshare pickup area. OK, given. What stops Didi from simply picking up passengers from the public area, i.e. people who have private cars picking up friends, relatives, etc.? Basically just like calling and getting picked up by a Didi anywhere else that isn't the airport. Is it illegal for a business that isn't registered / has the airport's permission to do so?

I suppose if you ever have a good Didi driver in Cairns, may be a light idea to see if you can exchange contact details for private pickups from the airport in the future (cash under the table, or start the ride outside the geoblocked zone plus a generous tip).

Had to laugh at this amusing inclusion near the end of the article:

I guess that is an option. Cairns CBD is only, ahem, about 6 km from Cairns Airport (looks much further than that on the map, and seems further when you're in the car driving / being driven). You could cut that walk down to 3.5 km by taking a public bus part of the way (but that ride is not going to be 50c, unlike in SEQ). It would look rather odd trekking Airport Ave (not sure if anyone would think you're a threat). There's no footpaths for that section of the "walk", but if one is crazy enough or frugal enough to consider walking to or from the airport, they probably don't have a trolley bag of any sort.

Dozens walk into Cairns from the Airport every day carrying their backpacks or dragging their suitcases with them. I see plenty of snakes along there though and two people were run over and killed doing the same several years ago. Anybody in the know also knows that you can get didi from the Uber pick up area, if a driver tries picking up from the public area they get fined and could lose their Airport access card.

 

[Pigg]

So many "Uber" experts on here and ninety nine percent of them don't have a clue what they are talking about.
It is impossible to create a surge by cancelling.
A driver has no idea how long the trip is until you get in the car.
Top drivers get a notification of what direction and how long the trip is beforehand but no actual address again until you are in the car but you will never make that status by cancelling even one trip per day.
A lot of drivers don't hang around the airport as Cairns is so busy that a two minute drive out of the airport and you have another trip straight away so is often a shortage of drivers.
There is usually a long line for Taxis also.
Didi is unofficially available to those in the know, just book and head to the Uber pick up point.
Plenty walk to the city, i see dozens every day doing it but i also see plenty of snakes along the road and several years ago two people were run over and killed in two seperate incidents.
If a driver attempts to pick it at the public pick up they get fined and could lose their airport access card.
Lastly, plenty of passengers cancel on drivers also, it works both ways!

 

[Plugga69]

Very accurate observation about CNS; matches a lot of my experience. I stuck out for a fair fare on rideshare from CNS airport recently, and I eventually got one, but it took so long. It probably would have been easier to eat whatever "discount" Uber may have given over a taxi and just take the taxi.

One thing is that I've forgotten how to get a quick taxi estimate for fares since I've been so used to rideshare apps giving you that information in the app.

I probably was that uber driver who took you back to the airport, thr sooner they make it "if you cancel at the airport you can't re enter for 24 hours, just might kerb the certain group that gives us honest drivers a bad wrap"

 

[Plugga69]

Very accurate observation about CNS; matches a lot of my experience. I stuck out for a fair fare on rideshare from CNS airport recently, and I eventually got one, but it took so long. It probably would have been easier to eat whatever "discount" Uber may have given over a taxi and just take the taxi.

One thing is that I've forgotten how to get a quick taxi estimate for fares since I've been so used to rideshare apps giving you that information in the app.

I probably was that uber driver that took you back to the airport,the cartel as quoted is a group of drivers who need to be removed from the airport for 24 hours if cancelling at the airport, however The figures quoted are not the figures the driver receives, all fares from the airport are less $2.50 airport charge and 27.5% uber service fee, so although it's not right some fares from the airport are not viable
Ans the driver does not see the fare or destination until he or she accepts, which is frustrating for all

 

[Viatore]

There is also the significant challenge with Cairns Airport charging a pretty premium for Uber drivers to have access to the airport. This is usually a pain point when the fare is lower than AUD 20. While I am angry everytime I am rejected by Uber drivers at CNS airport, I've realised that Cairns Taxis are more than reliable.
Cairns Airport is an absolute money making machine (like all other airports) and put a huge cost imposition on drivers for Airport pick ups. No wonder they prefer drop offs to pickups.

 

[kevrosmith]

A taxi waiting in the queue has no idea the destination of the next person waiting in line, so I don’t understand why that’s a problem/issue for Uber drivers.

 

[Rich]

So many "Uber" experts on here and ninety nine percent of them don't have a clue what they are talking about.
It is impossible to create a surge by cancelling

So if you are an expert, why do they do it?

 

[serfty]

The reason there is no public bus there, like a great many other places, is when it was a little airport years ago the government issued an Airport Shuttle Bus contract for X number of years so SOMEBODY would go there in cheaper competition with Taxis and Limos. This cost the bus operator MONEY and the deal was NO PUBLIC buses for however long. It is not a license to print money as several operators have failed. Just like the Airtrain lines at SYD and BNE are protected.

I caught a public bus from Cairns to the airport in July 2022. Such a service did not exist pre-COVID. This service has been stopped.

 

[Quickstatus]

It is impossible to create a surge by cancelling.

But you have not addressed how Uber drivers manipulate surge pricing.
All they have to do is to coordinate with other drivers when to turn on their apps.

 

[NM]

But you have not addressed how Uber drivers manipulate surge pricing.
All they have to do is to coordinate with other drivers when to turn on their apps.

Or perhaps they monitor the flight arrivals, knowing there will be arriving passengers making bookings. Say, for example, 100 passengers arrive on a flight, and 20% of them want to use Uber. Of those 20 passengers, some will have luggage to collect and some will be hand luggage only, and passenger disembarkation takes say 5 mins. So those 20 Uber passenger bookings will span a period of time, perhaps over 10 mins. So the first few passenger bookings may get quoted without any surging. But over that 10 mins period, 20 bookings triggers the algorithm to push up the quoted costs due to demand.

At smaller/regional airports, savvy drivers likely understand the demand cycle that likely happens with each flight arrival, and they know they don't make much money from the first few passengers, but if those passenger's journeys are cancelled then rebooked, their rebooking is now happening at the same time as other arriving passengers and hence the algorithm has started to increase the quoted prices due to the increased demand from the rest of the flight's arriving passengers.

I am not a ride-share driver and do not have direct knowledge of how the pricing/quoting algorithm works. But I have seen the outcome as the price kept rising with each cancellation. In my original example, we were traveling in business class with hand luggage only, so were first off the aircraft and among the earliest arrivals at the ride-share pickup area and likely one of the first to book the Uber ride.

 

[jastel]

I caught a public bus from Cairns to the airport in July 2022. Such a service did not exist pre-COVID. This service has been stopped.

A Blue Translink/Sunbus/Kinetic one?? Thats news to most of Cairns....obviously it was not well publicised and hence failed. Some weird stuff happened in Covid.

The Shuttle Bus is a public bus...like I said that has stopped and started and gone broke a few times.

 

[Aeryn]

There are multiple shuttle bus companies that do transfers from CNS. I only use when staying in Port Douglas because of the distance it cheaper than a taxi or Uber who charge extra cause zero chance of a return fair, whereas Uber is cheap enough if staying in Cairns itself.

 

[jastel]

There is also the significant challenge with Cairns Airport charging a pretty premium for Uber drivers to have access to the airport. This is usually a pain point when the fare is lower than AUD 20. While I am angry everytime I am rejected by Uber drivers at CNS airport, I've realised that Cairns Taxis are more than reliable.
Cairns Airport is an absolute money making machine (like all other airports) and put a huge cost imposition on drivers for Airport pick ups. No wonder they prefer drop offs to pickups.

As I said DOM drop offs still have Toll, INT drop off does not...yet.
So an INT pick up will benefit the AIRPORT by $2.50, but not the driver.
My Taxi mate says Tolls can be $150 -$200 per week.

The drop off areas are boom gated and activated by the drivers card, which adds the Toll to your fare, so long as you pay the driver he shouldnt really care.

The Toll was implemented years ago to "enhance driver facilities"...sound familiar?
Probably after 9/11 security reviews, when Ansett collapsed, there used to be Qantas end and Ansett end, both with taxi ranks outside.
Now its Departures and Arrivals with security in the middle, only a few cars allowed to wait on rank out front, the rest must wait in holding area, and use Toilet there, and then move up.
There is an unshaded parking lot and a demountable toilet, that is broken half the time. The facilities have been paid for 1000 times over.

Like everything designed to make life easier, these cards and gates can fail, leading to more problems.

 

[jastel]

Or perhaps they monitor the flight arrivals, knowing there will be arriving passengers making bookings. Say, for example, 100 passengers arrive on a flight, and 20% of them want to use Uber. Of those 20 passengers, some will have luggage to collect and some will be hand luggage only, and passenger disembarkation takes say 5 mins. So those 20 Uber passenger bookings will span a period of time, perhaps over 10 mins. So the first few passenger bookings may get quoted without any surging. But over that 10 mins period, 20 bookings triggers the algorithm to push up the quoted costs due to demand.

As smaller/regional airports, savvy drivers likely understand the demand cycle that likely happens with each flight arrival, and they know they don't make much money from the first few passengers, but if those passengers journeys are cancelled then rebooked, their rebooking is now happening at the same time as other arriving passengers and hence the algorithm has started to increase the quoted prices due to the increased demand from the rest of the flight's arriving passengers.

I am not a ride-share driver and do not have direct knowledge of how the pricing/quoting algorithm works. But I have seen the outcome as the price kept rising with each cancellation. In my original example, we were traveling in business class with hand luggage only, so were first off the aircraft and among the earliest arrivals at the ride-share pickup area and likely one of the first to book the Uber ride.

Thats exactly it - the more demand the higher the price with uber...the higher price gets you more drivers and quicker service (in theory)...thats what the public wanted.

With Taxis the price stays the same but the wait increases as demand increases.

The first ones off the plane will get the best of both worlds.
This is why when you get the first Taxi/Uber that comes, THEY have also been waiting the longest without a job, and when you give them a short fare, they may get mad about it.
Then a driver that just drops off a fare, at the now busy airport, instantly gets another one. So he has got two fares in the time the first driver had one.

It is not right or fair (on either side) but that is the reality of the situation.

 

[Saab34]

I’ve definitely seen uber drivers having chat groups, I was in Townsville and while waiting during roadworks he pulled up the chat for the area and they did appear to be coordinating stuff. Was a bit vague but comments was around demand and trips. He noted I was sort of looking so changed it back to the map.

 

[Happy Dude]

If a driver attempts to pick it at the public pick up they get fined and could lose their airport access card.

Genuine question: How does the airport know that a car in the public pick up area is a ride share vehicle? Not all ride share vehicles display a sticker.

 

[Saab34]

Genuine question: How does the airport know that a car in the public pick up area is a ride share vehicle? Not all ride share vehicles display a sticker.

All I can think of is people turning people in and then airports checking cctv.

 

[anat0l]

Genuine question: How does the airport know that a car in the public pick up area is a ride share vehicle? Not all ride share vehicles display a sticker.

I guess if the "Gestapo" (as referenced previously) happens to catch a driver tapping out on an app in the process of unloading a pax.

If, as seemingly referenced, the airport or their authority can ban vehicles, then they could always ban first and answer questions later (or not at all), so even a suspicion (or perhaps someone reviewing surveillance footage over a period of time) is enough. How that stands up legally, I am not sure.

 

[Quickstatus]

Or perhaps they monitor the flight arrivals, knowing there will be arriving passengers making bookings

yes and with coordination, they dont turn on their apps until a little later.

No, repeated cancellations by a driver reduces their rating. IIRC they can only cancel less than 3% of requests to maintain a certain level of status.