UK - in or out of the EU? Travel Issues?

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Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Yep, all over Red Rover.
The distribution of voting results by area makes interesting reading.
So much for my somewhat meagre super funds :(, even meagrer today (I know that's not a real word so don't send me off the the grammar thread :))

As it will take about 2 years to actually Brexit I hope the ASX recovers its nerve well before then.
 
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Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Apologies, here's the article referred to above:

BREXIT. Just about everything you might have read or heard or seen on TV about the dire consequences of a British exit from the European Union has been sheer and utter rubbish.
This is especially true of the comments — hysterical ravings would be more accurate — from the global intelligentsia, led by who can only be called the idiot-in-chief, Christine Lagarde, the head of the IMF, the International Monetary Fund.
Her interventions and those of the IMF more broadly have ranged from the patronising — how she had “always admired the UK for its openness to other nationalities and foreign cultures”; to predictions of utter calamity — that Brexit would trigger a collapse in the stockmarket and house prices and send the UK into recession.
Coming from the head of the IMF, which has distinguished itself by uninterrupted incompetence into, through and after the Global Financial Crisis, that is passing rich.
Coming as it does from a typical Gallic bureau-politico hack, who has waxed rich her entire life, floating between highly paid perk-laden positions in and around French politics and the French, European and global bureaucratic circuits, sucking endlessly on some taxpayer teat, that is one monumental surprise I, well, don’t think.
Goodness, gracious me, if enough countries decided to walk away from paying out the billions to tens of thousands of Brussels bureaucrats, who knows where that might end? Who knows which teat might run dry next?
In days gone past, you might have concluded that if enough people like Lagarde said something, or took a position, it might have had some credence and clout. Not any longer: global warming hysteria has demonstrated all too clearly how (supposedly) very clever people can say (unqualifiedly) very stupid things.
There are two levels to the Brexit stupidity. The first is the way it would supposedly devastate the UK and particularly England; the second is the way it would supposedly wreak havoc across global markets and the world economy.
Now, there’s one truth in the latter. If enough people believe something, and then act on that belief, by moving money in and out of various markets, that belief can be turned into reality. If enough people scream ‘the sky is falling’, in markets, eventually, it falls.
But, only up to a point and then almost certainly only temporarily — if there really isn’t any foundation for the fear. The reality then becomes the substantial buying opportunities which will have been created in the opposite direction in those various markets.
Let’s just take one example: London property, which has become so attractive to foreign buyers from the uber-rich like Russian oligarchs and billionaire Chinese communists to the global merely rich.
The UK votes for Brexit and the pound plummets. Do you seriously think those people won’t want to own London property now that it’s suddenly got, say 20 per cent cheaper in their own currencies? Indeed, the price cut aside, it will be even more attractive. It will be so, precisely because the UK — and London — was no longer locked into Europe’s huge range of insoluble problems and dysfunctionalities.
Of course, if Europe chose to deliberately hurt British industry by deliberately hurting itself, Brexit could ‘trigger’ a disaster. But that would be like China suddenly refusing to buy any more iron ore from us because it got its collective nose in a snit over something or other.
Why do you think London is a global financial centre? Just because it’s inside Europe? If so, how come, New York, Hong Kong, Tokyo and Shanghai manage to survive, far less already haven’t shrivelled away, outside Europe?
People go to London for money because it delivers. It delivered before the UK was in Europe; it will deliver after it’s left (if of course, it does) — and indeed, arguably deliver even better precisely because of leaving.
President Obama, in his usual mindless and tactless intervention, mouthed the globalist pieties of the plagues that would be unleashed by a Brexit. But if being part of Europe is such a positive, why hasn’t Obama spent the eight years of his presidency, clamouring for the US to join?
The basic point in all this is that Britain is quite simply, frankly, too small to matter. Unlike the US in 2008, even if all the most ludicrously exaggerated claims of disaster came to pass, the impact on either global financial markets and even more so the global economy, would be a mere ripple. And, as I said, the bigger the actual initial reaction to a Brexit, the bigger the buying opportunity that would be created.
That opportunity would be leveraged by the fact that exiting Europe would in substance be hugely beneficial economically and financially for the UK and especially England — freed from the oppressive overlay of not just bureaucratic Brussels, but the extortion racket that the Euro is for Germany.
The bigger point is not financial. It is the fundamental one of national and individual sovereignty — to have your individual and shared destinies decided by yourselves under law, not by foreign unelected bureaucrats and foreign governments elected by others and in some case, by themselves.
In essence the “stay argument” comes down to just a sterile, mathematical argument against the national version of an ordinary human divorce. That, by definition, a couple splitting ‘has to cost themselves’, because two can’t live as cheaply as one.
Apart from the fact that it is just simply factually untrue in relation to Brexit, clearly even if a divorce is going to ‘cost’ a couple, and they know it, couples still often just have to divorce anyway.
And that further, while the short term might be costly, divorce might still be the necessary, indeed, the only, path to be taken for one or both to ultimately improve their position — whether that’s emotionally and psychologically or financially, or in some other way.
In the case of Brexit it would be only one of the parties — the UK. It would emerge clearly better off; that will not be the case for Europe, which will continue to sink in its own dysfunctionalities and pusillanimity.
Here’s a final point, with a down under resonance. It is or should be blindingly clear that exiting the EU is the only way the UK is going to regain control of its borders — to determine who and how many come to it not only from outside Europe but inside Europe as well.
Just as the Abbott government took the fundamental decision to regain ultimate control of our national sovereignty and indeed survival from the people smugglers in Asia, the British have to seize back their sovereignty from the people smugglers in Brussels and Berlin.
 
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Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Yep, all over Red Rover.
The distribution of voting results by area makes interesting reading.
So much for my somewhat meagre super funds :(, even meagrer today (I know that's not a real word so don't send me off the the grammar thread :))

Perhaps any of these will do..

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[TR]
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[TD]inadequate, scanty, scant, paltry, limited, restricted, modest, insufficient, sparse, spare,deficient, negligible, insubstantial, skimpy, short, little, lean, small, slight, slender, poor,miserable, pitiful, puny, miserly, niggardly, beggarly;[/TD]
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I'm going to be watching the (investment markets) fallout over the next couple of years and this will only extend the volatility with a slower rise predicted.

A representative of State Street (global investment managers) and I were watching it with more than passing interest over lunch (and during their presentation to me).
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

He was delivered a letter by the 82 Brexit MP's who urged him to stay. He has the mandate..

You know when the the chairman of a football club issues a vote of confidence in the manager.........

:p
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Leave now at 51.2% nearly 13 million votes counted.
Interesting roller-coaster. Good for ratings. I hope 52% didn't get it wrong. We shall wait and see over the coming months.
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

<snip>
A representative of State Street (global investment managers) and I were watching it with more than passing interest over lunch (and during their presentation to me).

I don't suppose he mentioned that it might be a good time to buy gold stocks (at lunchtime today)? All mine up a minimum of 10.5%, vast majority of the gains after midday and my broker shared in the bounty when I unloaded some. its been a long time since we gold bugs had such a good day.

Edit: Confession: BHP down 8.2%.
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Investment Managers are already quickly onto Brexit. Fidelity have just issued an email:

The UK has voted to leave the EU, according to media reports. What does this mean for you and your clients?

Key consequences of this decision include:

  • Article 50 of the EU constitution, the law governing the process of the UK’s divorce from the EU, will be triggered at some point
  • This will start the two-year process to determine the terms of the UK’s EU exit, including its access to the single market
  • Pressure will mount on Prime Minister David Cameron to resign
  • The result is likely to hamper the UK economy to some extent
  • The ECB is likely to expand its asset purchases, to reduce the risk for investors

They have produced a thought provoking presentation as well...I'm not sure the people who voted know were thinking of the downstream consequences
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

I wonder what Scotland thinks [video=youtube;9EH1G4EwljM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EH1G4EwljM[/video]
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

We can see the future, and it's name is Boris.

(BTW is there a Labor party in the UK? Let by a chap named Jeremy isn't it? Whatever happened to them?)

Edit: "Gold on Fire": (May be behind paywall, sorry)

[h=1]Gold soars after UK Brexit vote shock[/h]Gold prices soared to multiyear highs in London on the back of safe haven demand as the UK was projected to have voted to leave the European Union after a historic referendum.

Spot gold was up 5.3 per cent at $US1,319 a troy ounce in early morning European trade, having hit its highest level since March 2014 earlier in the session at $US1,358.80 an ounce.
“The precious metal is on fire and it is the real winner of Brexit situation,” said Naeem Aslam, chief market analyst at “Investors are really trying to protect their investment and we are seeing some big bets coming in the market which is pushing the metal price higher.
In a closely-fought campaign that was largely unanticipated by financial markets, Britons voted to leave the European Union. The move represents a startling rebuke to the establishment and threatens to spark political turmoil in the UK and more widely across an increasingly fractious eurozone.
Gold rallied $US100 from where it was trading before the results and is currently trading 25 per cent higher than the first session of the year, in contrast to other financial markets. The metal is considered a traditional safe haven asset and attracts buying in times of heightened economic and financial instability.
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Couldn't happen to notice that a number of websites have a message up at present " with are experiencing higher traffic than normal" , such as Qantas Cash and XE. I wonder why ?
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

I guess the doom and gloom on the financial markets is because the UK will now become like other well known European economic baskets cases that are not in the EU ... like Switzerland and Norway.:rolleyes:
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

We can see the future, and it's name is Boris.

(BTW is there a Labor party in the UK? Let by a chap named Jeremy isn't it? Whatever happened to them?)

Yep, Boris is VERY likely the next PM - and it could be soon.

Labour still exists, but was seriously wounded in the last election. They will fight back next time!
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

Yep, Boris is VERY likely the next PM - and it could be soon.

Labour still exists, but was seriously wounded in the last election. They will fight back next time!

Very interesting to note that many Labour heartlands such as North East England voted leave comprehensively.
Both the conservative and Labour parties in the UK have large voting blocks against their parties wishes.
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

We can see the future, and it's name is Boris.

(BTW is there a Labor party in the UK? Let by a chap named Jeremy isn't it? Whatever happened to them?)

Yep, Boris is VERY likely the next PM - and it could be soon.

Labour still exists, but was seriously wounded in the last election. They will fight back next time!

I was meaning more in the referendum. Corbyn supported Stay too didn't he? Is his job on the line? (I imagine most Labor MPs would love to get rid of him.)
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

I'm not sure the people who voted know were thinking of the downstream consequences

Such as:

Fidelity said:
Market impact - UK


In the short run, investors can expect:
 Shock to investor confidence and increased UK asset price volatility
 Further declines in the pound, adding to the 5% depreciation versus the euro YTD
 Downward pressure on UK equities, especially financial sector stocks and those most reliant on EU migrants (e.g. construction, hospitality sectors). Less pressure on UK companies with large FX earnings
 Modest upward pressure on Gilt yields is possible owing to increased uncertainty, higher risk premia and the prospect of higher inflation due to the weaker pound (although initially yields could fall due to a flight to safety)
 Upward pressure on UK corporate bond yields owing to increased uncertainty and the worsening short term growth outlook – as with equities, the financial sector is most exposed
 Modest declines in UK house prices are possible

Economic impact - UK
Like the Bank of England,* we think that the leave vote will probably have a negative short term impact on UK economic growth, because of:
1. Increased uncertainty and reduced confidence depressing private consumption and fixed investment
2. Increased risk premia in UK bond markets and potentially higher borrowing costs
3. Increased uncertainty, risk aversion, and possibly higher funding costs in the UK financial sector

Note: a weaker pound is likely to support exports and the Bank of England may cut interest rates, mitigating the overall adverse impact

They've made their bed, I hope they don't enjoy lying in it.
 
Re: UK - in or out of the EU?

That last line in the quote QF WP is more material in the fall-out than the (lack of) prominence that writer gives it, I think.
 
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