United Airlines new Virgin Australia/Velocity Partner

[henrus]

In both situations it is points & pay, what confuses me is why is there such a big difference between the two options given it's literally the same flight and they are partners? Why are they charging so much more in redemption for flying under the VA tag flight?

Both Virgin Australia (and while were at it Qantas) offer both award seats and any seats. There is a difference between the two and in many cases you can have both award seats and any seats on the exact same flight at very different prices.

Award seats are a fixed number of points based on the distanced (miles) travelled. For example SYD-LAX is 7488 miles. You can then go to the award table and see exactly the number of points Using Points For Flights

Using this SYD-LAX example the 7488 mile journey falls into Zone 8 (7001-8500 miles). Therefore in economy an award seat is 44,800 points and in business class is 95,500 points.

Obviously on top of the required number of points you also need to pay the taxes either in cash (which is best value) or you can use more points to pay the taxes amount with points. The number of fixed price award seats released on a flight is decided by the operating carrier (which in this case is United), they can decide to release as many or little (sometimes zero) award seats in economy and business class as they wish. In off peak travel times you'll typically see more award seats but during busy times like school holidays there may be none.

The other thing is award seats will always be booked on the flight number of the operating carrier so from SYD-LAX this means you will have a UA flight number in the booking.

Now here is where your confusion applies... Virgin (and Qantas) offer what they call any seats. This is where you can purchase any available cash fare using points but the rate is dependant on the dollar amount. 99% of the time this is terrible value and because cash fares from Australia to the US are typically high, you'll see some outrageous fares using "any seat" prices.

Currently the rate that Virgin is using for any seats is $1 = 166.66 points (basically valuing points at 0.006c per point). This means that if the business class price from SYD-LAX is $5000 then you'd need 833,333 points or if the business class price is $7500 then you'd need 1,250,000 points. Unless you've got a huge pile of points then there is very little benefit of purchasing an award seat given the terrible value of points applied.

Now because any seats are just a cash fare (but you're using points instead of a credit card) then all the typical fare rules (change/cancellation fees) of a cash fare apply. You are also able to book using the VA codeshare flight number which is only offered on cash fares.

Now finally it's worth noting there is a difference in taxes. The award seat has a lower taxes at $116.38 whilst the cash fare/any seat has a higher taxes at $145.28. In short this is because the award seat isn't subject to a $28.90 transportation tax applied by the US Gov.

All the other taxes remain the same including the $60 Australian departure tax, $31.28 Sydney airport tax, $10.30 US immigration tax, $9 US Customs tax and $5.80 animal/plant inspection tax. These taxes total $116.38 (but obviously add $28.90 if a cash fare).

 

[SCM]

Ah, thanks for that explanation, had no idea about "any seats for points" !

 

[grubbidok]

Hi all, as a VA WP I have been plopped on a UA booking to NA with a a VA number by our (thoroughly incompetent) organisationally-mandated corporate travel agent and they are *charging* for seat selection for the UA long haul legs.

Is this a new surprise for VA members flying to NA? I was able to select all segments on DL metal

 

[BRIS_VA_HAWK]

Is this a new surprise for VA members flying to NA? I was able to select all segments on DL metal

Where is NA, dare I ask?

 

[AIRwin]

Where is NA, dare I ask?

North America?

 

[Mattg]

A data point, for what it's worth...

I flew with United over the weekend and had my Velocity number attached to the booking. This is how this appeared on my boarding pass:



By way of comparison, this is how it would look if you had status with United or a Star Alliance airline:



I couldn't test whether they would charge me for checked baggage because I was in F (so bags were included anyway).

I did try to use the United Club at IAD. I was denied entry, but not because they didn't recognise Virgin Australia status - that didn't seem to be an issue. The problem was that they only offer lounge access with an international itinerary, and although I was connecting through to Australia on the same ticket, my onward flight from LAX was on Qantas and not with United or one of its partners. Therefore, I was considered a domestic passenger on United and no lounge access was available.

 

[henrus]

organisationally-mandated corporate travel agent and they are *charging* for seat selection for the UA long haul legs

UA standard seat selection is free on all fare types except for basic economy. Preferred seats and economy plus and chargeable.

Given how full flights have been it could be possible that only chargeable seats are available.

 

[henrus]

The problem was that they only offer lounge access with an international itinerary, and although I was connecting through to Australia on the same ticket, my onward flight from LAX was on Qantas and not with United or one of its partners

This is covered on the UA website, I agree it could be clearer on the VA website.

"Velocity Gold, Platinum, and VIP members may enter United Club locations using that day’s boarding pass for an international United or Virgin Australia-operated flight departing from the same airport"

Under the other section on this page:

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/travel/airport/united-club-and-lounges/access.html

 

[AIRwin]

I agree it could be clearer on the VA website.

United Airlines

experience.velocityfrequentflyer.com

Domestic lounge access into United Airlines owned and operated lounges within the USA is only available to Platinum and Gold Velocity members in conjunction with an International journey, where both flight sectors are booked on a single ticket. Lounge access is not available where a Velocity member is holding a domestic flight and an international flight on separate tickets.

International lounge access into United Airlines owned and operated lounges is only available to Platinum and Gold Velocity members in conjunction with an international same day boarding pass. Access to 3rd party lounges (e.g. Star Alliance owned and operated) lounges is currently not included in your ticket unless you travel in Business Class on a United Airlines operated flight.

 

[henrus]

nternational journey, where both flight sectors are booked on a single ticket. Lounge access is not available where a Velocity member is holding a domestic flight and an international flight on separate tickets

See on the VA site it just says international journey, it doesn't make clear the international journey must be operated by UA.

MattG had a single ticket but it was a QF and UA flight on the single ticket.

 

[grubbidok]

UA standard seat selection is free on all fare types except for basic economy. Preferred seats and economy plus and chargeable.

Given how full flights have been it could be possible that only chargeable seats are available.

It was UA metal but a VA number, flex economy. Might be the case only chargeable seats were left. Could be teething issues.

Wasn't able to modify booking online or request through VA guest centre due to corporate booking to test system, so corporate TA had to do it (who I don't trust to get it right, considering last trip they booked me hotel in wrong US state despite me sending link to specific conference hotel, and simultaneously booked me 2 cars, neither of which were at the airport I landed, and this is was a good experience with them, so it may not be a UA/VA issue, just a data point)

 

[henrus]

Wasn't able to modify booking online or request through VA guest centre due to corporate booking to test system

When booked on a VA flight number but UA operated the UA seat selection is done through UA. The VA booking ref should work on the UA website and then seats can be selected through their system.

 

[Mattg]

This is covered on the UA website, I agree it could be clearer on the VA website.


Under the other section on this page:

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/travel/airport/united-club-and-lounges/access.html

Oh, I agree. I wasn't expecting to get in, but the wording on the Virgin website is vague and doesn't say the international connection has to be on United (it should say this IMHO).

The part I thought was interesting was that the lounge dragon was aware of Virgin Australia's existence and knew about the partnership.

 

[michael65]

Has anyone encountered any problems with additional baggage allowance on domestic United flights?
When I went to the United app, it thought I was a basic Premier Plus member but on the website, it states that I'm entitled one free bag (as a Velocity Gold member).
The customer service agents were evidently also bemused and couldn't find a solution. One of the phone agents stated that after 'further research', Virgin was listed under their system as a *Alliance partner but without any benefits.

Did you end up finding out. I wonder if the additional baggage only applies to international legs

 

[FTac]

Oh dear.....so did you argue? did you show them your velocity digital card and ask them to look up their own policy? i think the confusion is United is Star alliance and Virgin is a United partner but not star alliance. So they dont know if Velocity gold is same as star alliance gold......
How far did you escalate this?

I didn’t push it too hard as they didn’t seem to be able to do anything about it (they were quite nice). Didn’t get priority boarding though.

I submitted a request for a refund and it was issued straight away.

Tried for another flight, same thing. This time it was an economy reward ticket LAX-YVR. He managed to “make an exception” for one of our bags (was travelling with my partner who is also Velocity Gold), oddly charging us $15 for each bag instead of one for the regular $30 and one for free… We did get priority boarding this time though.

 

[dzzr]

Does anyone know if UA do upgrade bids from economy tickets? Given there is no way (currently) to upgrade a paid ticket using points.

 

[BRIS_VA_HAWK]

Am in the midst of BNE-SYD-SFO right now. Word to the wise - VA won't allow you to do online check-in, so you need to be at BNE for the domestic leg at least 90 minutes pre-departure, if not more.
I was on VA908 (0605 ex BNE), ontime into SYD, and then walked downstairs for T-Bus. Unfortunately no timetable available for that, so if it hadn't have rocked up within 2-3 minutes, I was heading down to the train.
Even though VA issued me with a boarding pass for UA870 and checked my bag, still had to go to UA to double-check. Was given a UA boarding pass and told to use that instead. Queue for Economy was 50 deep (for both LAX & SFO), so quite happy I was in the 1K line.
Customs and security were banked up fairly hard. Travelling in Business Class I got to scoot pass the queue, but it would have been another 30 minutes again (give or take) to get through.
With the 0930 LAX departure it's EXTREMELY tight connection right now. The 1020 to SFO has more wiggle room, but still a bit tight for Y pax.

 

[michael65]

Am in the midst of BNE-SYD-SFO right now. Word to the wise - VA won't allow you to do online check-in, so you need to be at BNE for the domestic leg at least 90 minutes pre-departure, if not more.
I was on VA908 (0605 ex BNE), ontime into SYD, and then walked downstairs for T-Bus. Unfortunately no timetable available for that, so if it hadn't have rocked up within 2-3 minutes, I was heading down to the train.
Even though VA issued me with a boarding pass for UA870 and checked my bag, still had to go to UA to double-check. Was given a UA boarding pass and told to use that instead. Queue for Economy was 50 deep (for both LAX & SFO), so quite happy I was in the 1K line.
Customs and security were banked up fairly hard. Travelling in Business Class I got to scoot pass the queue, but it would have been another 30 minutes again (give or take) to get through.
With the 0930 LAX departure it's EXTREMELY tight connection right now. The 1020 to SFO has more wiggle room, but still a bit tight for Y pax.

After a similar experience flying from Hobart to Sydney my wife and I now fly in the day before as a slight delay can cause chaos

 

[BRIS_VA_HAWK]

After a similar experience flying from Hobart to Sydney my wife and I now fly in the day before as a slight delay can cause chaos

Unfortunately couldn't do that due to business commitments, but can understand why. At the end of the day if VA is going to sell it with the connection then they can clean up the mess if it all goes wrong. Would be nicer if there was an airline connection, but we can't have everything can we??

 

[michael65]

Does anyone know if UA do upgrade bids from economy tickets? Given there is no way (currently) to upgrade a paid ticket using points.

If you are a member of UA FF then you can upgrade using their points. But as far as I am aware they do not do "cash offer" upgrades