United Airlines new Virgin Australia/Velocity Partner

[henrus]

Both UA and VA would be eligible to apply and I suspect given the unique nature of the route they'd receive funding. I wonder if VA even thought about apply for it on the BNE-HND route (perhaps they did but it was never made public).

It's definitely something the Premier would do despite her past mixed record of subsidising international carriers to start BNE. The standouts being Air Canada (the few successes) and standout failures being Air China and Thai AirAsia.

Air China was actually funded by the council, state and federal government. Money from the QLD came out the "connecting with Asia" grant. A range of other airlines were secured under Attracting Aviation Investment Fund (AAIF):

A range of flights have fallen under this however I wouldn't call them failures just because they've been suspended by the pandemic:
- Air Canada (currently suspended due to covid)
- Thai AirAsia (to Brisbane, also suspended due to covid)
- Malaysia Airlines (also suspended due to covid)
- Qantas Brisbane to Christchurch (AAIF started this route - and it managed to survive the pandemic)
- Singapore Airlines (Brisbane to Singapore extra frequency)
- Eva Airlines (Brisbane to Taipei - still running today)
- Air Asia X (KUL to Gold Coast - suspended due to covid)
- China Eastern (now seasonal but slated to return)
- Royal Brunei (was slated to receive funding but due to Brunei's LGBTIQ laws never received funding)
- Qantas (San Fran and Chicago - hopefully both get started after covid settles down)

Domestically it was responsible for Tiger Air's Melbourne to Townsville but more recently some of the Alliance airlines flights such as Brisbane to Proserpine and Canberra - Sunshine Coast - Cairns.

There have been a few others that were failures like Hong Kong Airlines (Hong Kong to Cairns and the Gold Coast) although they were struggling around the time the route launched. Vietjet Air was another one who applied but didn't end up operating to Brisbane.

 

[HS-TQE]

Thai AirAsia was definitely a failure, despite XJ's claims of returning after lockdowns, they had pulled out of BNE well before their stated date. Most likely pulled out when the subsidies by the Queensland Government dried up.

SQ's extra 4th frequency funded by the Queensland Government is unlikely to return in the short term, medium term at the soonest.

EVA was operating in BNE for a long time at 2x weekly before the Qld AIAF fund (and other related funds) started up, so any State Government subsidies had been to fund extra frequency or get it close to daily.

Malaysia Airlines seems to be slated to return, so I'd say mixed result for MH.

BI, I would say close to failure, but most likely politically inflicted rather than poor patronage.

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As for UA, any short term entry into BNE (as a BNE mention was absent from yesterday's announcement) would highly likely be subsidised by the Queensland Government, for the 'sake of Tourism and Competition' to quote the Premier.
This is effectively Queensland tax payers paying for the leasing/chartering of up to 2x UA jets to 'push BNE' ahead of the queue of other cities which would be considered 'more important than BNE' for UA in regards to expansion.

 

[henrus]

This is effectively tax payers leasing/chartering up to 2x UA jets to 'push BNE' ahead of the queue of other cities which would be considered 'more important than BNE' for UA in regards to expansion.

Ignoring gov funding for a moment. I wonder if this partnership between VA and UA has already pushed Brisbane higher up the food chain?

 

[HS-TQE]

Ignoring gov funding for a moment. I wonder if this partnership between VA and UA has already pushed Brisbane higher up the food chain?

Considering BNE was absent from yesturday's announcement. I would say it'll be on the back of their minds (VA HND slot issues aside - which is indirectly linked).

BNE has traditionally NOT been on the forefront of UA expansion in recent years, ever since UA's short lived LAX-SYD-BNE tag in the 1990s from the old BNE Int'l terminal, which was only x3 weekly from memory.

 

[AIRwin]

Back then DJ (Virgin Blue) and Velocity were operated very separately. United was a partner of Virgin Blue but not velocity.

No wonder UA wasn't listed:

List of all former Velocity FF Airline Partners

Could you please help me compile a list of all Velocity frequent flyer former airline partners. They have had a few over the years: - AirNZ -AirBerlin - Vincent Aviation - Virgin America

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[clifford]

Used to fly United eons ago. Even did a "baht-run" in early 2001 (I think) and made 1K. UA went downhill considerably after 2001 and that's when I moved to OW and QF for international. I'd be interested to see how this tie up works.

UA really went downhill after 2010, when it was taken over by Continental and Jeff Smisek (remember him?) became CEO.

I've been a lifetime Platinum with Mileage Plus for many years, but haven't flown "UA" for at least 15. There are so many better options.

Now, however, I won't worry too much about renewing my Virgin Australia Gold status.

 

[HS-TQE]

Also back to the future for UA and Star. Back when UA and VB (DJ) signed a basic interline & codeshare agreement not long after AN liquidated, it was reported that UA were heavily pushing Star Alliance to pursue VB (DJ) back in the day to join them as a associate (if not Full Member) to replace AN as the Australian member over 19 years ago.

This could be history repeating again (NZ issues aside) with 3 (or 4 way) discussion between Star, UA and VA/Bain. Bain will likely flex their negotiating power to push for lower fees (as opposed to joining at the cheaper Star Alliance Connect level) if Bain were to be actually interested and thought the CapEx for alliance membership would increase their 'return on investment'.

 

[HS-TQE]

UA really went downhill after 2010, when it was taken over by Continental and Jeff Smisek (remember him?) became CEO.

I've been a lifetime Platinum with Mileage Plus for many years, but haven't flown "UA" for at least 15. There are so many better options.

Now, however, I won't worry too much about renewing my Virgin Australia Gold status.

Do recall Smisek 'resigned in disgrace' after a scandal.

Although his successor had health issues initially, Munoz laid the groundwork to undo the 'damage' his predecessor had done, and also poached former AA 2iC Kirby to come to UA as his 2iC and eventually take over from him as the current UA CEO.

 

[jakeseven7]

Queensland Government taxpayer funded chartered/leased UA aircraft from BNE to SFO and/or LAX within the next 6 months?

It's definitely something the Premier would do despite her past mixed record of subsidising international carriers to start BNE. The standouts being Air Canada (the few successes) and standout failures being Air China and Thai AirAsia.

I think our (QLD taxpayer) money has done enough to prop VA2 up, we are now stuck owning some of it. I think it’s best the government doesn’t get too much more involved please!

 

[jakeseven7]

Also back to the future for UA and Star. Back when UA and VB (DJ) signed a basic interline & codeshare agreement not long after AN liquidated, it was reported that UA were heavily pushing Star Alliance to pursue VB (DJ) back in the day to join them as a associate (if not Full Member) to replace AN as the Australian member over 19 years ago.

This could be history repeating again (NZ issues aside) with 3 (or 4 way) discussion between Star, UA and VA/Bain. Bain will likely flex their negotiating power to push for lower fees (as opposed to joining at the cheaper Star Alliance Connect level) if Bain were to be actually interested and thought the CapEx for alliance membership would increase their 'return on investment'.

I tend to think now that Bain are starting the sell down process of their share in VA2 they are unlikely to incur significant costs anytime soon…. that might put this on the back burner even if it is in any burner at all right now!

I think we are all wishing on a star

Would be very happy to be proven wrong but that’s my gut.

 

[dajop]

No wonder UA wasn't listed:

List of all former Velocity FF Airline Partners

Could you please help me compile a list of all Velocity frequent flyer former airline partners. They have had a few over the years: - AirNZ -AirBerlin - Vincent Aviation - Virgin America

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

This is an interesting list:

Air NZ. Now partnering with QF in a limited capacity.
Air Berlin. Joined oneworld and partnered with QF (simultaneously with VA) before collapsing
Virgin America. Merged with Alaska, a partner of QF who have now joined oneworld.
Malaysia Airlines. Joined oneworld and became a partner of QF.
Emirates. Became a partner of QF.

So will DL become a partner of QF too?

But of course subsequent to that list there were ANA, Hainan group of airlines, South African and Alitalia - the later two were previously partners of QF.

 

[HS-TQE]

I tend to think now that Bain are starting the sell down process of their share in VA2 they are unlikely to incur significant costs anytime soon…. that might put this on the back burner even if it is in any burner at all right now!

I think we are all wishing on a star

Would be very happy to be proven wrong but that’s my gut.

If UA does end up with a considerable stake in VA from Bain in the future, then who knows.
NZ did start with a 5% stake in VB initially iirc, and grew from there as Toll and Branson started selling down.

 

[dk4]

Anyone championing UA over DL clearly hasn't ever stepped foot in a DL lounge or experienced DL businesses/first. There’s a big difference. At least UA has historically offered more flights to Australia.

In terms of positioning, the new VA is probably better aligned with downmarket UA, more than upmarket DL. And I agree, UA & AA standard lounges are so bad, they each had to invent "level-up" lounges for select locations/customers (Polaris & Flagship), DL's lounges, network-wide IMO, are a full notch above their competitors, hence why they don't have the urge to level-up.

The partnership does include access to domestic United Clubs (which is probably the one benefit of the UA partnership over DL).

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The only reason I would consider maintaining Velocity status is if it got you lounge access on UA domestic itineraries (which United status does not).

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From VA's perspective, the competition is with AA lounges - not DL lounges. And having a program that does not grant access to lounges during domestic US travel is almost certainly not competitive with what QFF offers.

Absolutely agree, the moment DL ditched domestic lounge access for VA card holders, the relationship had to end.

Maybe Virgin Lounge members will get an agreement with United Club, in the same way Qantas Club does with Admirals Club (and all VA golds+ automatically have lounge membership)?

Anyway, with most Domestic First Class flights in the USA coming sans-lounge access, reciprocal domestic lounge access is a must IMO.

 

[HS-TQE]

So will DL become a partner of QF too?

DL will simply replace UA as 'preferred' (non AA) interline partner of QF, whereas QF gets replaced by VA on UA's end.

 

[cbourl]

The partnership does include access to domestic United Clubs (which is probably the one benefit of the UA partnership over DL).

True, but if you say have Premier 1K status with Mileage Plus, you can't access domestic lounges unless flying Polaris transcon, but I find it easier to use my Lufthansa Senator Card for domestic flight lounge access in the USA if using economy feeders or eco flights on mileage runs

 

[HS-TQE]

I think our (QLD taxpayer) money has done enough to prop VA2 up, we are now stuck owning some of it. I think it’s best the government doesn’t get too much more involved please!

Agreed. Though still a big loss for BNE with the QF monopoly and UA not intending to fly to BNE themselves for the short term. (other cities are simply more important in their expansion plans) and are content with sending BNE/Queensland passengers via SYD/MEL through the VA codeshare for the foreseeable future

 

[cbourl]

I look forward to being dragged from my seat screaming lol

MMMM really? The Qantas Lounge dragons and Qantas Checkin Staff are very happy to call Federal Police if you dare question them, when they disregard the rules of your RTW ticket when they can't even read their own website, , or if you make a not so nice comment about Qantas and it's lack of service -really??????? Where but in Australia could bikies murder someone with QF and Federal police watching on eg SYD QF T3 Domestic ??? I've had a complaint made against me by a UA flight attendant, when I asked her to talk to me wit hher face towards me not with her back to me cops came - questioned me, then told theUA FA and UA captain I'm flying and then told me the FA was a trouble maker and just to apologise -so UA aint that bad -

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2021

There’s a whole YouTube Channel dedicated to United priority disembarkation Maybe we can use Velocity points to upgrade to this

Hey Qantas priority boarding for domestic C pax as wel las VA priority boarding for C pax ain't so hot - its a dog's breakfast - at least UA boards by ZONES

 

[jakeseven7]

Agreed. Though still a big loss for BNE with the QF monopoly and UA not intending to fly to BNE themselves for the short term. (other cities are simply more important in their expansion plans) and are content with sending BNE/Queensland passengers via SYD/MEL through the VA codeshare for the foreseeable future

The challenge with BNE is that its low yield especially when you are competing with MEL and SYD who have a lion share of corporates and MEL has a lot of tech linked to the Valley in SFO as well. So the carriers are then left with BNE as a leisure connection which is always going to be third on the list.

Thats why I was a little surprised when QF announced direct BNE to Chicago (and also SFO) I guess they were expecting MEL and SYD to fuel that as well. Apparently the forward bookings for the BNE ORD service were very strong which is interesting.

 

[HS-TQE]

The challenge with BNE is that its low yield especially when you are competing with MEL and SYD who have a lion share of corporates and MEL has a lot of tech linked to the Valley in SFO as well. So the carriers are then left with BNE as a leisure connection which is always going to be third on the list.

Thats why I was a little surprised when QF announced direct BNE to Chicago (and also SFO) I guess they were expecting MEL and SYD to fuel that as well. Apparently the forward bookings for the BNE ORD service were very strong which is interesting.

ORD was always going to be ex BNE as an interim pre-Sunrise measure.

I suspect SFO was intended as an ORD full time replacement post sunrise. Leisure/VFR traffic to/from SFO with the right sized aircraft would've allowed a single daily to LAX and SFO without overflooding capacity on BNE-LAX

 

[HS-TQE]

On the related topic of Virgin Australia International (short haul), it would probably make BNE/OOL-AKL from marginal at best to more viable for VA now, to allow AKL codeshare connections to/from UA, for those VFR/leisure traffic not willing to use SYD/MEL.

It will likely however be a one way VA codeshare on the AKL-LAX-AKL leg - e.g bookable VA only (thus no regulatory approval required) as UA can't put their code on VA TransTasman, as they use NZ for TransTasman codeshare as part of their separate JV.