Upgrade Priority. Staff vs. Paying Passenger

[trippin_the_rift]

In another case, a BNE-SYD has 100 seats in Y and 8 in J available. The staff member will check-in and be issued with an Economy boarding pass. Once all passengers are onboard, they may be upgraded to business if there are any empty seats left in business. Again, everyone else is already onboard and there is no chance of a passenger buying a seat or upgrading to J.

This is simply flat out not the case.

In my..gee oh I don't know 200+ BNE-SYD-BNE flights I request upgrades using points, declined only to see biz full of staff.

No matter what the QF rulebook says - how you describe it DOES NOT happen in real life.

What really happens is staff wait for the last moment to board (if their current ticket is in Y) - then see their buddy at the counter to get a new BP. Looking after your own and all that - which is fine and I understand it and think it's fine -- but **** there's no reason anyone should believe there's a 'customer before staff' policy. There is NOT!

 

[simongr]

Are we confusing staff duty travel with staff leisure travel? How would you know that Biz is full of staff on leisure travel?

 

[**TBA**]

Thanks everyone for your responses, really interesting reading the varied opinions.

Just to clarify my friend doesn't work for QANTAS.
He receives the benefit because of a friend who works for Qantas.. So he doesn't really know how the upgrade process works behind the scenes.

 

[mannej]

This is simply flat out not the case.

In my..gee oh I don't know 200+ BNE-SYD-BNE flights I request upgrades using points, declined only to see biz full of staff.

No matter what the QF rulebook says - how you describe it DOES NOT happen in real life.

What really happens is staff wait for the last moment to board (if their current ticket is in Y) - then see their buddy at the counter to get a new BP. Looking after your own and all that - which is fine and I understand it and think it's fine -- but **** there's no reason anyone should believe there's a 'customer before staff' policy. There is NOT!

I think there is a bit of confusion with your post, as the post you have quoted does refer to staff traveling on duty and their award and working conditions

 

[N860CR]

This is simply flat out not the case.

In my..gee oh I don't know 200+ BNE-SYD-BNE flights I request upgrades using points, declined only to see biz full of staff.

No matter what the QF rulebook says - how you describe it DOES NOT happen in real life.

What really happens is staff wait for the last moment to board (if their current ticket is in Y) - then see their buddy at the counter to get a new BP. Looking after your own and all that - which is fine and I understand it and think it's fine -- but **** there's no reason anyone should believe there's a 'customer before staff' policy. There is NOT!

Well no, it flat out is the case and I'm sorry if it doesn't match your opinion.

As mentioned, you would have no idea who the leisure travel staff are in the cabin as they're not in uniform. Those in uniform are on duty travel and are entitled to travel in business as they are on duty (this is written into EBA's and isn't negotiable except under extreme circumstances).

You've actually confirmed my description of what happens... Staff wait until all passengers are boarded and receive their upgrade at the gate. It has nothing to do with "buddies" (do you know how many people work for Qantas.... 99% have nothing to do with the ground staff who are often external contractors anyway!), it is the way the system is supposed to work. Those seats would have gone out empty if not provided to staff on leisure travel.

I think the point you're trying to get across is that you have requested a points upgrade that has been turned down only to leave empty business seats in the cabin. I'm sorry, but this is nothing to do with staff travel, it is simply how the Qantas Frequent Flyer program works (as you're no doubt well aware). Qantas DOES NOT release all seats for points upgrades. It's the way it always has been and probably always will be. If you didn't get your upgrade, it means that no seats allocated for upgrade were available. Qantas will never fill a cabin with upgrades as that would prevent them from actually selling J tickets (imagine releasing the entire cabin to FF redemption only to have actual full fare paying passengers unable to buy a ticket as none are available).

Staff upgrades processed at the gate are a part of the staff travel program and, I'll say again, are ONLY processed after ALL commercial passengers have been on loaded and all available FF upgrades have been processed. There is absolutely no way in the Qantas system for people to upgrade "buddies" for the sake of it. It simply can't be done for obvious reasons.

Again, we all know how upgrades on Qantas work. Just because they don't work for you doesn't mean that Qantas (or their staff) are out to get you. Perhaps Qantas should release more seats to frequent flyers... perhaps they shouldn't. But that's just how it is. There's a very easy solution for those who don't like the way the airline runs their program.

 

[Red Roo]

Thanks N860CR, Qantas staff travel is a privilege available to some staff (and is highly monitored). However please be assured that any passengers looking to upgrade with Qantas points will always have priority over staff traveling while on holidays. In some cases if a staff member is traveling for work, they may receive a confirmed seat in any cabin based on the reason for their travel.

Your QF friend really shouldn't be discussing the details of staff travel with non-staff members... but that aside, they're incorrect.

Qantas now start processing upgrades up to 7 days prior to departure with most (if not all) finalised by the night before departure. Staff do not BOOK tickets, they LIST on flights as a standby and only get on-loaded if there are spare seats.

I'll give an example. Say a SYD-LAX has 8 seats in Y and 2 in J available at the start of check-in. This flight is considered to be heavily booked and staff will not be accepted for travel until the flight has closed. So while you're sitting onboard already (sparking wine in hand!), the staff are standing outside at the check-in counters waiting for the final load to be completed (this includes the loading of commercial cargo, as it is a higher priority than staff). Then, and only then, will the staff be on-loaded (and will rush through security to be the last onboard the aircraft).

In another case, a BNE-SYD has 100 seats in Y and 8 in J available. The staff member will check-in and be issued with an Economy boarding pass. Once all passengers are onboard, they may be upgraded to business if there are any empty seats left in business. Again, everyone else is already onboard and there is no chance of a passenger buying a seat or upgrading to J.

Business is not free to staff members. They pay extra for the privilege of possibly sitting in business and this can be a big expense. For domestic flights, if a staff member books and pays for a business upgrade, they do not receive a refund if business goes out full and the forfeit the money (which can be over $100).

Duty travel is different as the crews are entitled to travel in business while they are travelling for work purposes only. That said, only a limited number of seats in the cabin are available for duty travel (generally).

So no, staff are not given any priority at all over passengers (I'm not going to say paying passengers, as the staff are paying as well - often just as much as some passengers are). Staff are the lowest of lows when it comes to on loading.

 

[Fifa]

Red Roo - do staff on their long service leave travel get guaranteed J or F (if entitled)?

 

[TheInsider]

Red Roo - do staff on their long service leave travel get guaranteed J or F (if entitled)?

No they do not.

 

[medhead]

I think there is a bit of confusion with your post, as the post you have quoted does refer to staff traveling on duty and their award and working conditions

However, the bit quoted implied duty travel.

Well no, it flat out is the case and I'm sorry if it doesn't match your opinion.

As mentioned, you would have no idea who the leisure travel staff are in the cabin as they're not in uniform. Those in uniform are on duty travel and are entitled to travel in business as they are on duty (this is written into EBA's and isn't negotiable except under extreme circumstances).

You've actually confirmed my description of what happens... Staff wait until all passengers are boarded and receive their upgrade at the gate. It has nothing to do with "buddies" (do you know how many people work for Qantas.... 99% have nothing to do with the ground staff who are often external contractors anyway!), it is the way the system is supposed to work. Those seats would have gone out empty if not provided to staff on leisure travel.

I think the point you're trying to get across is that you have requested a points upgrade that has been turned down only to leave empty business seats in the cabin. I'm sorry, but this is nothing to do with staff travel, it is simply how the Qantas Frequent Flyer program works (as you're no doubt well aware). Qantas DOES NOT release all seats for points upgrades. It's the way it always has been and probably always will be. If you didn't get your upgrade, it means that no seats allocated for upgrade were available. Qantas will never fill a cabin with upgrades as that would prevent them from actually selling J tickets (imagine releasing the entire cabin to FF redemption only to have actual full fare paying passengers unable to buy a ticket as none are available).

Staff upgrades processed at the gate are a part of the staff travel program and, I'll say again, are ONLY processed after ALL commercial passengers have been on loaded and all available FF upgrades have been processed. There is absolutely no way in the Qantas system for people to upgrade "buddies" for the sake of it. It simply can't be done for obvious reasons.

Again, we all know how upgrades on Qantas work. Just because they don't work for you doesn't mean that Qantas (or their staff) are out to get you. Perhaps Qantas should release more seats to frequent flyers... perhaps they shouldn't. But that's just how it is. There's a very easy solution for those who don't like the way the airline runs their program.

Well I have 2 experiences that suggest that staff are put in front of passengers. A) Only 2 on departure points upgrades available until the lounge member was confronted by evidence of 4 U fares being listed for the flight. Given the upgrades and later learn that 2 staff members missed out on travelling business, but 2 didn't. There were no uniforms in the business cabin on that flight. So I guess if I didn't have the evidence to hand about fare availability then staff members would have got the upgrade in front of customers.

B) Then there was my experience with a space available upgrade. Interesting experience, while I accept nothing is guaranteed with such an upgrade. My discussion with the gate agent dealing with the last minute loadings, as well as hearing the various conversations and phone calls while standing there waiting for the upgrade to be confirmed, tell me that a staff member got the upgrade in front of this passenger. I will acknowledge that a space available upgrade given to make up for poor service is not the same as a points upgrade. As such I'm not blaming anyone, not saying anyone else should have missed out. Just saying that a staff member was looked after before a customer.

 

[Fifa]

No they do not.

Interesting thanks.

 

[TheInsider]

Points upgrades have to be done atleast 25 minutes prior to departure. Staff re-grades (if applicable) are done at flight close off (-15min).
Staff can be onloaded directly into Business if there are plenty of seats to spare.

 

[serfty]

...

Well I have 2 experiences that suggest that staff are put in front of passengers. A) ...
B) ...

Seems like mates looking after mates.

 

[medhead]

Points upgrades have to be done atleast 25 minutes prior to departure. Staff re-grades (if applicable) are done at flight close off (-15min).

Indeed. In the A situation I described above. The points upgrade was request well outside of the 25 minute cut off. Being told there were only 2 upgrade seats available, instead of the apparent 4, with a total of business 6 seats on the flight, makes me think that someone was trying to ensure that there would be 4 business seats still available to staff members within 25 minutes of departure. :/

Space available upgrades are processed at flight close off.

Seems like mates looking after mates.

Which is how I interpreted Trippin_the_Rift's posts.

 

[JohnK]

It is one thing to have rules in place and another to let staff control who interprets those rules and who gets upgrades.

I have heard of many stories of friends of staff receiving business class upgrades for entire overseas trips.

I can understand the situation where staff need to be repositioned to work and receive available upgrades to keep them fresh for work BUT the rest of the time customers should always take priority over staff.

 

[oz_mark]

My experience, having friends that work in one or more airlines:

1) The watch loads like hawks,
2) They can never really give you any guarantees about when they will be arriving somewhere

 

[vitagen]

John I agree with you, but its just human nature to 'look after your own' ive been guilty in all of my past occupations.

Rules are there to be followed, but we arent all robots and always will try to justify our actions .

Good to be on the recieving end of these favours, but for every winner there will be a loser unfortuately.

 

[tuapekastar]

My friend who has a brother who has worked for QF for a long time recently took up an ID90 (I think that is what its called - 90% discount?) J fare (her first J) AKL-MEL due to being his sister. I asked her how it went and she told me she had to wait, wait, wait, at the gate (there was one other "ID" fare person there also) and ended up in Y, in the "worst seat on the plane" (I think the other ID person may have snagged the last J seat, though not sure). So no guarantees for leisure travel it would seem.

 

[oz_mark]

My friend who has a brother who has worked for QF for a long time recently took up an ID90 (I think that is what its called - 90% discount?) J fare (her first J) AKL-MEL due to being his sister. I asked her how it went and she told me she had to wait, wait, wait, at the gate (there was one other "ID" fare person there also) and ended up in Y, in the "worst seat on the plane" (I think the other ID person may have snagged the last J seat, though not sure). So no guarantees for leisure travel it would seem.

...and if you have to wait a day for the next flight, much of your savings gets eaten up in sudden accommodation expenses!

 

[DAC1]

If half of the critics here went through or understood the drama that is involved travelling on Qantas Staff you would probably say its all too hard for the remote chance of a J seat.

 

[medhead]

If half of the critics here went through or understood the drama that is involved travelling on Qantas Staff you would probably say its all too hard for the remote chance of a J seat.

Which is really a separate issue to what is being discussed here. But the frustrations in your post at the difficulties of staff travel are the sort of frustrations that might lead to things being done for mates.