upgrades

[Kiwi Flyer]

As mentioned already ... best to call Qantas and get things refreshed when changing tiers.

Only as long as the change is an increase in status (as it is here)

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I think EF is great as an indicator of availability - but needs to be very heavily tempered by the timing of the request and status of the PAX making the request.

Hmm. Well it is about 20 minutes before boarding for QF12 to Sydney. ExpertFlyer is showing: F3 A3 J5 C0 D0 Y3 B2 H2 K2 M2 R2 L2 V2 S0 N0 Q0 O0 (down from J7 24 hours ago), but upgrade request was "declined". Bummer.

 

[simongr]

Bad news there AC - would seem strange that with some availability an upgrade wasnt confirmed - wonder if there were any already planned op-ups on that flight...

 

[NM]

Given that Y was almost sold out, and possibly oversold in reality, I suspect they were wanting to keep some options available for last minute shifting around depending upon requirements for seating families/groups together. Having a few operational upgrade seats available to them makes it a bit easier if they need to move someone for seating alignment purposes.

 

[fursten]

Just arrived back, in my last posting discussed the non working of video in the J class seat I was in.
A letter was in our Mailbox with a sorry note from Qantas and a David Jones voucher?
Maybe they read these postings?
But in all I have to say that if they do this all time for their Club members then perhaps service is still there.
Go Qantas

 

[Tooner]

Just arrived back, in my last posting discussed the non working of video in the J class seat I was in.
A letter was in our Mailbox with a sorry note from Qantas and a David Jones voucher?
Maybe they read these postings?
But in all I have to say that if they do this all time for their Club members then perhaps service is still there.
Go Qantas

I had a similar experience on flight from PER - SYD a few years back where the IFE was u/s the whole way. Didn't affect me too much as I had work to do, but I still received a letter and Hoyts voucher for 2. Keeps you happy (a bit!).

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Given that Y was almost sold out, and possibly oversold in reality, I suspect they were wanting to keep some options available for last minute shifting around depending upon requirements for seating families/groups together. Having a few operational upgrade seats available to them makes it a bit easier if they need to move someone for seating alignment purposes.

I suppose the above is speculative, but if it's true that doesn't make me feel much better

WPs flying on paid tickets denied upgrades because QANTAS might need a few business seats spare to accomodate a group of people also in Y, but who haven't requested upgrades? Doesn't sound fair if you ask me...

 

[NM]

I suppose the above is speculative, but if it's true that doesn't make me feel much better

WPs flying on paid tickets denied upgrades because QANTAS might need a few business seats spare to accomodate a group of people also in Y, but who haven't requested upgrades? Doesn't sound fair if you ask me...

Not necessarily. You may not have been the only Platinum member of the waitlist. But remember that upgrades are not a right. It seems that Qantas rarely allocates all unsold business class seats to upgrades, preferring instead to keep some seats up their sleeve for last minute requirements (perhaps things like last minute sales, late minute flight change requests, displaces passengers, the captain's daughter etc). When it comes to operational requirements, the decision regarding who to upgrade seems to be in the hands of the airport staff and there does not seem to be a hard and fast rule about who gets the upgrade - just to ensure it is all sorted out in such a way as to minimise any denied boarding situations and to ensure the flight is not delayed in the process.

Unlike some other airlines, Qantas does not process upgrade waitlists at the gate in order to fill all remaining premium cabin seats. The waitlisted upgrades are processed by a separate department quite removed from the check-in process. Whether that is good or bad, right or wrong makes little difference. Its just the way it is currently done by Qantas.

In the end, I always look at an upgrade as a bonus. If I pay for a particular cabin then that is where I expect to travel. If I happen to win the upgrade lottery and am invited to move up front then that is a welcome bonus, but I am never disappointed if the upgrade fails to clear since I am only entitled to a seat in the cabin for which my ticket is issued.

 

[fursten]

I agree with you 100%
Upgrades are good and a pleasant experience.
I agree also you get what you pay for, if you pay for Y or lower then you cannot complain that you are not moved to the pointed end.
My reasons for joining the Qclub was more for the access to the lounges and the ability to have a priority check inespecially on overseas sectors. I pay my dues and have membership.
In cases of flying then if by chance I can be upgraded then it is a bonus. If any of you travel with wife then it is hard to accept an upgrade if she is left in lower class or vice versa.
So I do not get upset when the upgrade does not occur, I dream of the next time or how I can justify paying for the seat in the better cabin.
Fursten

 

[JohnK]

I agree also you get what you pay for, if you pay for Y or lower then you cannot complain that you are not moved to the pointed end.

Is there a cabin lower than WHY?

 

[fursten]

various lower priced y seats is what I meant.
Furrsten

 

[NM]

Is there a cabin lower than WHY?

Lots of fares lower than Y.

 

[serfty]

... Doesn't sound fair if you ask me...

That's simply the way it is.

Look at it another way. For your Disc. WH Y upgrade you would have needed 72,000 QFF points, for J->F it is 45,000. Let's give that J to F upgrade a nominal value to Qantas of $450.

Given how full the flight was, it may have been that one or two people would have been very keen to get to Sydney, whatever the cost. So much they were prepared to ante up the USD9,852 to travel one-way to SYD (or USD18,202 for the return). It's quite possible that Y2 was Y0, 20 hours before the flight.

Given that nominal $450 value, if on this route Qantas leave 20 F seats available like this per week and only manage to sell one of them; they are still WELL ahead!

It's really a simple business decision.

 

[turtlemichael]

That's simply the way it is.


Given that nominal $450 value, if on this route Qantas leave 20 F seats available like this per week and only manage to sell one of them; they are still WELL ahead!

It's really a simple business decision.

Ah, but they are even further ahead if they sell that one seat for USD9582 and allocate the majority of the other 19 to points upgrades. I guess that is the skill in it all.

And they also no doubt take into account that unless their frequent travellers get upgrades occasionally, they risk losing their business altogether. Some people travelling in the back end are loyal QF flyers not just credit card accumulators.

 

[serfty]

Ah, but they are even further ahead if they sell that one seat for USD9582 and allocate the majority of the other 19 to points upgrades. I guess that is the skill in it all.

And they also no doubt take into account that unless their frequent travellers get upgrades occasionally, they risk losing their business altogether. Some people travelling in the back end are loyal QF flyers not just credit card accumulators.

In this case there may have only been 2 or 3 J seats after any upgrades had been processed; some J PAX may have moved off the flight afterwards flight freeing more. It seems that generally these upgrades occur around or shortly after the 24 hour mark or not at all. There have been reports of them happening later but this seems rare.

I was using F as an example, but a J from Discount WHY upgrade would be 72,000 points.

A one way J fare is USD8017 so on the same basis they could leave 15 such seats empty and still be ahead.

 

[NM]

And they also no doubt take into account that unless their frequent travellers get upgrades occasionally, they risk losing their business altogether. Some people travelling in the back end are loyal QF flyers not just credit card accumulators.

That seems to be a risk Qantas is very willing to take.

 

[turtlemichael]

That seems to be a risk Qantas is very willing to take.

By constructing the scheme so that the first points upgrades go to CL, then WP, etc they reward their most loyal customers. I have been denied an upgrade that I wanted, on points, only very rarely and then I have no doubt that the cabin above was full. I would venture a guess that in the vast majority of cases, but probably not all, upgrades on points, or even op ups, will go to the most senior customers. There might be the odd exception.

I have also received a couple of points upgrades between leaving home and check-in though the majority have been 24 hours or so out.

 

[Tooner]

I would venture a guess that in the vast majority of cases, but probably not all, upgrades on points, or even op ups, will go to the most senior customers. There might be the odd exception.

I have also received a couple of points upgrades between leaving home and check-in though the majority have been 24 hours or so out.

I don't know about op ups; I was a lucky beneficiary 3 weeks ago from SIN to LHR, when the CSD said he "had a problem" and needed to move me and the guy sitting next to me from J to F. I'd hazard a guess from talking to the guy next to me he was WP too, but I think it had more to do with the seats we were in (23 A & B) than who we were.

On international upgrade with points, in my limited experience it seems to be around 15 hours before - Recent evidence: 11pm HK time Thursday no upgrade confirmed. 6:30 am HK time upgrade confirmed for flight at 8:25pm that night.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Given how full the flight was, it may have been that one or two people would have been very keen to get to Sydney, whatever the cost. So much they were prepared to ante up the USD9,852 to travel one-way to SYD (or USD18,202 for the return). It's quite possible that Y2 was Y0, 20 hours before the flight.

I'm not sure what your point is here? How many J seats is QANTAS going to sell 20 minutes before boarding? Maybe a few - probably none. Far more likely, surely, that they would sell J tickets on two of the later flights that night.

I can understand what you are saying about QANTAS making business decisions. It just doesn't seem fair *if* what NM is saying is true.

But that's the way it is. I have no expectation of getting a better seat if I pay for a particular class.

 

[serfty]

The point is that Qantas believe (and have almost certainly demonstrated to themselves internally to be a fact) that they increase their net revenue by following this path.

It is very likely that Qantas actually do sell one or more of these 'spare' seats at these premium rates every week. (e.g. Corporate fliers travelling on v. short notice)

It's all down to yield management and their predictions based upon probabilities.